Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

MustangSix":9dg05geo said:
I somehow missed the Toyota announcement. That is indeed a blow to Australian manufacturing.

A massive blow as no longer can we say we will manufacture cars here. Adding to that we have also lost ALCOA and almost lost Shell (has been taken over) and QANTAS will also shut the maintenance here at Avalon.

Ford, ALCOA, Shell and QANTAS (Located in Avalon) are all very close to the Geelong area.
Toyota in Altona and all very close together so a big hit for employment. Holden is based in Adelaide and that was also hit some year back when Mitsubishi shut down as well.
 
Pity.

I believe that wealth is generated by adding value to material. You dig something out of the ground, grow a tree, pump a liquid.....then you refine it, cut it, shape it, forge it and eventually turn it into something useful, consumable, or beautiful - fuel, furntiure, steel, wool, clothing, food....... The labor, management, and creativity that goes into every step of the process adds real value and increases the worth of the final product.

You don't attain the same result from manipulating currency or shuffling digital data. While there is money to be made, there isn't always value created in the process.

When whole nations start to give up wealth-creating activity in favor of money-making activity, the populace suffers and the income gap widens because the wealth will be concentrated with those who are money-making, not wealth-creating. The short term gains of money-making often look wonderful to the accountants, but miss the larger picture.

Australia and the USA didn't become great nations because we had great money exchanges. We became great because we had people who took what the land gave them, added sweat and imagination, and created something new that others would want. That model works only as long as we understand the difference between money and wealth.

Selling Chinese cars makes money. Building Australian cars creates wealth. They are NOT the same thing.

Good luck to you and to us......
 
MustangSix":3kffhg3a said:
Good luck to you and to us......

What we are seeing is a global change in the way we do many things. In time we will see just how all these changes affect us all both in Australia and in the USA as well as in Europe and for that matter in Asia.
 
Cool23":1g8litwk said:
MustangSix":1g8litwk said:
Good luck to you and to us......

What we are seeing is a global change in the way we do many things. In time we will see just how all these changes affect us all both in Australia and in the USA as well as in Europe and for that matter in Asia.


Thanks. But in this instance, someones playing bodyline tactics, and its about time for the details to be leaked by a new Bill Woodfull.

I do not want to see you, Mr Ford. There are two teams out there. One is making cars with health, safety and environmental consideration and the others you compare us to, are not...


I think in this instance, being a spectator in 'wait and see' will get us to place much less advantageous to where the British are now. They are at least a massive assembler of 1.5 million cars and trucks a year from Nissan, Ford, BMW and specialty models from Aston Martin and Jaguar Land Rover.

A more German, self believing and industrious response is needed. Right this instance, Aussies have critical production mass to push there way through to key markets in the Middle East, UAE, parts of Asia Pacific and certainly the UK and Europe. I don't buy the abject, New Zealand style 'lets not use public money to support a private enterprise company'. It is just that partnership which created Holden in the first instance, and then kept Land Rover, Jag, and the Mini a UK business prospect, and if the prospect of picking Austin Rover up for free wasn't so alluring to the Chinese, English Tax payer money would be currently returned to Pommy coffers by a pruned Austin Rover. The sales of little cars and Rover 75 sized cars has always been there. especially the early Fox Mustang size, T type Jag market. Why else would anyone try and buy Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Bentley and Rolls Royce...because they were four and rear wheel drive configurations who others at the time said had no real value. They did have value, they created it by better design and engineering than anyone else, the ability to execute the design reliably was what Ford contributed, as mass production creates reliability.

Public money was just what protected Ssangyong's butt from SAIC's violation of Korean law and company regulations pertaining to access to Daimler Benz propriety knowledge. And doesn't China thrive because it uses nothing but what is deemed as public money. C'mon! Aussies opting out of car making is unthinkable. You guys do it well, and you can make a motza doing it.

I've got an old Rover 75, probably the last almost 100% English designed and made mass market car. This is what is being remade in China as the SAIC MG/Roewe 550, MG 6 and Nanjing Automobile MG 7 from the old MG Rover tooling. With a low deck Falcon I6 and rear drive conversion to it, MGZT style, it would package up as cool as an early V8 Ford Focus. After-all, ProDrive, (which is Subarus and Aston Martin Tickfords car sorting subcontractor), converted the Rover 75 from fwd to rear drive, and made the 4.6 Ford V8 engined 260 and 290 MG ZT-T's what they were in 2005, and dynamically and size wise, that's where Ford need to be in Australia from that time to right now, with Falcon and Territory vehicles as shoots off a common base. The Chinese just added 5" to the Nanjing Automobile MG 7's wheel base, and it looks like the PRC steps are to making proper volume car production in the traditional pre 2007 Ford Australia style, with SUV, LWB and SWB versions sharing tooling and cost amortization.

And that, my friends, is a crime since Ford Australia should be building smaller cars like that with 4.08" bore spacing in line engines, PBR brakes, Tristar steering, Dana diffs, VDO controls and Ford versions of the ZF gearboxes, and the capability to be fwd, rwd and 4x4. Its all about not stonewalling, but being active and vital.
 
Well when I say wait and see I want to see if they get it right this time. Will Ford sell the Mustang here (well that is what they tell us they are going to sell here) but will it sell like the Falcon ? Personally I do not think it will as it is a performance car like the Falcon GT or the XR6.

Will any of these companies get it right with what they bring into the country ? GM ? Toyota ?
What will replace the Falcon and the Commodore ? Will it fall apart on our Aussie Roads ?
This is what I say when I say wait and see.

Now as for the Industry I am involved in I am already seeing and hearing changes. What this forum is about is the Inline Six and I can tell you it will not die here it is an Aussie Icon.

Ford's earlier engines from the 170 to the cross flow and Holden's 179 and 202 engines from all models will still be well chased in the wrecking yards for many years and my guess well sort after for many years to come. The Performance and Modified side of the industry will side step and change in new directions but I can see growth happening and changing in many ways even now.
You can buy enough panels to build a new XW or XY from Rare Spares just as you can buy a steel body 1932 Ford in the US.

Aussie ingenuity is already looking at many things and I have been made aware that some companies are stepping up with new ideas. Davies Craig (http://www.daviescraig.com.au/ ) recently went to SEMA and the other Performance trade show in Florida and the electric water pump they make is being exported to many places as well as the fans. An Aussie invention the EWP. I think we will see more of this sort of change and I for one am not going to be sitting on my hands whilst it happens.

As for Ford Australia and for that matter what we can say once was Holden and Toyota Australia they will soon just be market arms for the parent companies In the US and Japan. Although Ford appears to be keeping some design and engineering etc. here given they had some input into the Mustang.
 
Ford have already told us we will not see a US based Pickup here as they can not make enough for the US market so what will replace the Aussie Ute ? Ford also tried to sell the Made in Brasil based F Series truck but the quality was not good enough for the roads here and they only lasted a very short time. When I say wait and see well I want to see if they can get it right as the F Series Import was a failure.
 
Cool23":5pmw98gc said:
Ford have already told us we will not see a US based Pickup here as they can not make enough for the US market so what will replace the Aussie Ute ? Ford also tried to sell the Made in Brasil based F Series truck but the quality was not good enough for the roads here and they only lasted a very short time. When I say wait and see well I want to see if they can get it right as the F Series Import was a failure.

Has anyone done a poll in OZ to see what the buying public wants to buy? I'd think gently used Fords have just shot up in value down under.
 
X2 maybe also do a big Australia wide write in campaign to Ford several times that has worked well in the USA to get special models built. But the biggest one was to save the Mustang as a rear driver platform over replacing it with the Probe front driver. And the Probe did not last very long or sell all that well after the newnest wore off. I wished we could have gotten the Oz version of the late Falcons here and I think they would sell very well.
 
80broncoman":1qkcea4e said:
Has anyone done a poll in OZ to see what the buying public wants to buy? I'd think gently used Fords have just shot up in value down under.

You get sick of companies doing phone market surveys. Ford used to do one by mail when you purchased a new car or you had a service. Most of the surveys done by phone are from India or the Philippines so you get pissed off very quickly when they call.

bubba22349":1qkcea4e said:
X2 maybe also do a big Australia wide write in campaign to Ford several times that has worked well in the USA to get special models built. But the biggest one was to save the Mustang as a rear driver platform over replacing it with the Probe front driver. And the Probe did not last very long or sell all that well after the newnest wore off. I wished we could have gotten the Oz version of the late Falcons here and I think they would sell very well.

Well writing to Ford here will do nothing now they have pulled the pin on manufacturing here and in fact Holden and Toyota will possibly not listen much to what we Aussies have to say. I doubt Ford will build a car just to Import to Australia.
The Aussie Falcon was a great car. Big enough to tow a decent car trailer or Caravan or the boat. Problem was it was to big for many and sales of bigger cars have been failing over the years as cars like the Mazda 6 win car of the year here. I am sure it (Falcon) would have sold in other places if a left hand drive version was built. After all the Holden Commodore was sold in the US (not sure what it is badged as) and it was also sold to other parts of the world as a Chevrolet.
 
MustangSix":32c6zmsb said:
The Monaro was rebadged for a time as the Pontiac G8 and the GTO. Actually, it took significant rework to make it fit the US requirements.

It's back this year as the Chevy SS.

http://www.chevrolet.com/ss-sports-sedan.html

Oddly enough, it looks like Chevrolet may built these in the US and sell them in Oz as the Holden Commodore.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/19/chev ... n-america/

That is the marketing at work from GMH ( Holden) Why would those in the US want to buy an Imported Chevrolet ? Mind you I have seen the Export version here and it has more than the locally sold version.
 
:unsure: I can think of a couple of reasons they would import them, main one is since the Government took over part of General Motors and the Union has ended up with the other part. I use to be in the UAW many years ago when worked at Ford all I can say the Quality has really dropped on the GM stuff these last few years was like that at Chrysler too until they were bough out by Mercedes. I doubt it will be much longer before all the GM cars are built in China.
 
Cool23":1kh4qnl0 said:
MustangSix":1kh4qnl0 said:
The Monaro was rebadged for a time as the Pontiac G8 and the GTO. Actually, it took significant rework to make it fit the US requirements.

It's back this year as the Chevy SS.

http://www.chevrolet.com/ss-sports-sedan.html

Oddly enough, it looks like Chevrolet may built these in the US and sell them in Oz as the Holden Commodore.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/19/chev ... n-america/

That is the marketing at work from GMH ( Holden) Why would those in the US want to buy an Imported Chevrolet ? Mind you I have seen the Export version here and it has more than the locally sold version.

Here You would be amazed at how many people are blind to where their vehicle is built. Even people that work in manufacturing are even lost to it. when thy look at a Chevrolet SS, Silverado Truck , or Chevy Spark all they see is Chevy Not OZ, Mexico, and South Korea.

bubba22349":1kh4qnl0 said:
:unsure: I can think of a couple of reasons they would import them, main one is since the Government took over part of General Motors and the Union has ended up with the other part. I use to be in the UAW many years ago when worked at Ford all I can say the Quality has really dropped on the GM stuff these last few years was like that at Chrysler too until they were bough out by Mercedes. I doubt it will be much longer before all the GM cars are built in China.

GM has started making more and more part in China for many years. Some times you even see it in the domestic content windo stickers.
 
Interesting comment as many here re-badge the Commodore as Chevrolet. Sign of the times I guess. I wonder if after Holden close if many will try to re-badge the Chevrolet as a Holden ? :eek: :oops:

Same goes here, as what you have as the Chevrolet Cruze is presently sold and badged here as a Holden Cruze but I am sure it is not built here.
 
Cool23":bb6ix6cd said:
Interesting comment as many here re-badge the Commodore as Chevrolet. Sign of the times I guess. I wonder if after Holden close if many will try to re-badge the Chevrolet as a Holden ? :eek: :oops:

Same goes here, as what you have as the Chevrolet Cruze is presently sold and badged here as a Holden Cruze but I am sure it is not built here.
What does the VIN serial number start with? if its a 1,3, or 4 its made in north america.

Here is what lead up to that.
Years ago Chev stopped building the RWD Caprice 1996 (If I remember right)Which was slightly behind Ford in cop car sales and right then they started touting their FWD caprice cruiser complete with a 3.8V6 :rolflmao: . Chrysler was selling their LHS FWD cars as police cars I not sure I have EVER seen one)
GM really did Expect the police departments to buy the NEW FWD cars just like they did the old RWD cars.......It didn't happen. This left Ford as being the only seller of RWD cop cars. So It really boosted Crown Vic sales big time.

Fast forward to 2011 Ford quit making the RWD Crown Vic and Now Chrsyler has the Only RWD police car made in North America.
Ford is wanting police agencys to buy the new taurus SHO as police cruisers but all it really did was sell more Chargers. :banghead:

So Now GM want to see if they can sell some RWD cop cars and have a civilian model while they are at it.
 
I have never looked at to see a number but then GM could build them (Cruze) in multiple places and not just the US. Ford after all build the small cars (Fiesta & Focus) in both Spain and South Africa as well as Thailand the name may change in the different locations.

Interesting about the Police Cars as I have seen the Holden Commodore in Saudi Arabia a A Police Car and I believe it was also used in the US as a Police car.
 
Interesting to watch the Clipsal Supercar race on the weekend as it is no longer Ford & Holden.
Nissan, Mercedes and Volvo have no joined as well. Is this the future we see ?
 
I was premature. The SS will be built on Oz until shortly before the 2017 shutdown, and is expected to move to the US then.
 
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