Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

MustangSix":3rvqaskr said:
I was premature. The SS will be built on Oz until shortly before the 2017 shutdown, and is expected to move to the US then.

After that I guess it will be then imported here as a new model.
 
Dearborn is being very stupid regards rear drive big cars, and Chrysler, like it did with the Viper V10, the Cummings Diesel, is niche marketing with the 300.

Which is also diesel down here.

Yes, anti in line, anti rear drive, anti diesel.


And Anti Australian Innovation.


Dingbats. I should buy a Great Wall now and fall on my sword....


Ford could still import the Ford Falcon in long wheelbase form to cover the market.


Then there would be the sales critical mass to do a US 1966 Fairlane from a US 66 Falcon style long door and different wheel arch mods, unlike our ugly and downright offensive too short wAgon door and filler window glasshouse like the 79 to 2007 LTD's and Fairlanes ran.

The cost price issue is then getting closer to being sorted. The cost of doing the shipping and production upgrades could be offset by US Union engine/trans production going right to Australia with no 'complementation', ie, no local labor added. Then US captive market niche parts could allow a full same engine/trans on the F150, and some kind of push into making a very slightly smaller pre 1983 style F100 variant to the Aussie market. Aussies aren't against full chassis pickups. An Aussie 4.0 turbo common rail inline diesel based on the Barra engine could then be added.

There is a huge market for bigger SUV's and trucks, the US trucks can sell, but they need to be a little trimmer, and have the right options for the recreational crowed.


Then the question of what the FG Falcon base can be downsized to for volume sales. A move to the T6, Falcon and a unibody FG based short wheelbase car. 4.08" bore spacing, drop a cylinder, make a 3.3 engine small car.

Its looking like McPherson and the five cylinder compact car of 1947 all over again.

I'll bet the whizkids that laid down there all lookin after Aussie and Kiwis during the yellow peril invasion wouldn't pull funding from a forwarding thinking bunch of Aussies like we have today in Ford Australia.

Lookes like its time for a Please Reconsider memo to Dearborn...
 
Do you check any information before you post ? Cummins has no G. :D

I suggest you buy a Foton Tunland and it has a Cummins. From all reports the Chinese have that one right. Cummins have enforced the quality of the Foton built Cummins after all it is using the CUMMINS name that has a stamp of quality. ;)

If Ford got it right how could they export a Falcon ? They have failed and will not build it here after 2017.

Also of interest at present is QANTAS. Priced an Air Fair recently with QANTAS and it was over $3000-00 and a longer route with another Airline was just over $1000-00 AU.

Not sure what to make of that but I know if I go belly up like Ford, Holden and Toyota here I do not think the Govt will bail me out. Not sure how QANTAS competes with other airlines but it is all about keeping workers in this country.

It is happening here and jobs are being lost to to other countries. If it happens here it can also happen in the US and NZ.

As for the innovation well that is happening in many other places. On the news QANTAS and FORD workers that have been laid off have been taken on by a wheel manufacturer. :beer:
 
The issue is that for some time its been uneconomic to make cars in the US, so Ford works hard with there US unions to keep engine, component and whole car lines in the USA, by augmenting its line with cost savers from overseas, so the total line up cost is reduced.


In the past, in Germany and England, same thing. Even screwing together Japanese cars with robots, British Leyland found it really hard to make a profit due to the cost of labor. The Germans did it another way, they used there expensive components suppliers, and sold ZF patents to the Japs on the cheep to keep German recirculating ball units and injection in Datsuns, and then spearheaded the very expensive second year garage sale on ZF gearboxes, Bosch injection and ABS systems...went hard on aluminium bodies with Audi, which Ford is copying Range Rover/Land Rover style for the F150 and maybe Bronco. And gasoline VW engines to AMC, Chrysler, Diesel and Gasoline VW Audi engines to the Chinese via there Nissan made Santana. And VW diesel engines to Volvo.

One diesel, Falcon I6 based engine could be sold as 4, 5 or 6 cylinders to five car makers I can think of. That was just what Benz did, they made turbo diesels like sausage machines, at high price to the US.

The Aussies cheap bauxite is just the ticket for alloy panels and turrets, and the components suppliers are very good, and should be playing with reliable, whole of life costed out items which don't have surreptitiously downgraded parts like the Chinese. The Government controls protectionism, and can network with Ford, GM and Toyota. The alternative is that the whole of Aussie production goes away, and with it, any chance of making the rising cost of Asian market production be counteracted with focused, Australian resolve to compete.

Especially when the buying patterns of car owners is becoming more conservative. Aussie cars have a very endearing character, and they can sell well internationally, even if building them is four times the cost of Asia. It is in Germany...
 
You keep forgetting FORD purchased Jaguar Rover to get the Diesel Technology for the Aussie Falcon based Territory. The Diesel engine in those is is pretty good. Once they had that they sold off Jaguar Rover to the Indian company TATA. I think the Diesel Territory technology will live on in something different in the future like the US F150 as the US market is screaming for a Diesel in that size vehicle just as the Chinese have shown the small Electronic Cummins can sell in the Foton pickup and 4x4.

A good example of the things you refer to can be seen with Cummins as they have engines built by both Dong Feng (East Wind Motor Company) and Foton. Both are Chinese. Cummins build plenty of B Series engines in the US and most of these get used in the Pickup not leaving anything much to export out of the USA. From this you have to ask how do Cummins survive in other parts of the world like Australia ? All Cummins Engines here are imported. I have a Don Feng 6BT (12 valve) in my 1948 Truck. The Engine could have been built in the US, UK, or any of the other plants still building that B series based Engine. Just so happens mine came from Dong Feng China. Prior to that I had a UK built Cummins. The quality standard is kept no matter the build location and we could easily exchange or swap parts from both engines. If a company like Cummins can do this then so should Ford, Holden and Toyota. Sadly they have not chosenthat path and these 3 have gone.

As for Leyland. History still has the P76 and it may have been what Leyland needed but we will never know as they went just as Chrylser (Rootes Group & Mitsubishi), VW, Nissan, Renault did in the past.
 
xctasy":47qfgpag said:
......
Lookes like its time for a Please Reconsider memo to Dearborn...

with your writing skills, I'd go for a full blown Global Petition. Tell them with all the other car makes gone
they are sure to make money as I am sure there people in Australia that might not be ford fan but will buy
a Ford over a import.
 
I can't do the job that Aussies should do. The platforms the Chinese picked up, old Austin Rover stuff which was bmw designed for easy retro fit to raer drive is what is needed. How can you flog a 10 year old Rover 75 and make money....but controlling the cost of the build. What the Aussies need to do is follow the mass produced bases that the FT 86 and Altezza rwd platforms make work, what Holden should have gone towards in 2004, they are the future. GM USA got its Sigma platform cheep from the Aussies, then ran. The Falcon platform will die unless there is a compromise on the existing economies of scale, and a change back to one common rear drive base. For the sake of a commodity price change that is China invoked and Dearborn uses as an excuse.

Engineering wise, these issues just don't get answered.

Look at the Police Interceptor Taurus. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/0 ... an-taurus/

1. Why the heck does it need an AWD option in a high surface polished stone value world of America? Answer. FWD is inadequate in any pursuit, not just those above the Mason Dixon line.

2. Where is the lost four inches in cabin width, Answer? Ford lied

3. Where is the dog leg loss in legroom compared to the Crown Vic. Answer? Nowhere, its gone

4. Why is the rear view BLIS set-up mandatory? Answer? The front drive package and width loss has forced FoMoCo to go higher in the trunk to make up for the width loss.

5. Why after the horrors of the redesigned rear door from the 96 Taurus has the front door been so compromised compared to the Crown Vic. It is after all a front drive car with minimal front a pillar to ifs center line distance. Answer. The target fixation about getting the rear door great for law enforcement has made a hash of the front, without consideration to donut eating cops life.

Its a massively lousy taxi...


Sorry Dearborn and Broadmedows, but one dissenting Kiwi voice isn't enough of a spark to goad 20 odd million Aussies to support there own industry.

Follow the trail of blood from ditched former Aussie CEO's...
 
xctasy":q6ku63f5 said:
Sorry Dearborn and Broadmedows, but one dissenting Kiwi voice isn't enough of a spark to goad 20 odd million Aussies to support there own industry.

Follow the trail of blood from ditched former Aussie CEO's...

Your voice is too late. Many have been voiceing issues here for some time. To build a car here is simply too expensive. The CEO ditching is not only in the Auto Industry. Internet marketing has killed off many other things and we may even see Myer take over David Jones to create some Super Stores in retail. ALCOA and SHELL are two other names that come into play here as to what the future will be. ALCOA is also in the Geelong Ford area.

At present a Norwegian car carrier is searching for a lost Malaysian plane MH-370. It is in the southern ocean south west of Perth. I wonder how many of those cars will rust given the detour of that ship.

As for the Falcon the name is to be retired and only some of the design and engineering ideas may live on in other Fords. Not to become Political but the Government in South Aust went to the elections and it voted to stay labor. I wonder if this was feed back from Holden workers for lack of support for what was already looking like the flogging of a dead horse.
 
This is my last post on this. I guess I've flogged the dead horse.

Look at Toyota, it has shut down all its specialty models, and gone straight to low cost base front drive packages, except for the Lexus models.

Love to know how Dearborn can react to the drift Toyota's now that there is no other real rear drive choice.

I'll always love Fords, but Dearborn have outsourced to the wrong continent, and Aussies won't buy reheated Chinese cars and trucks based on Nissans and MG's...Aussies will just grab there old full chassis utility pick-ups, and slap in reworked engines into them like Kiwis do. And they will remember what Ford, GM and Toyota did to them in the quest just to make a buck. Report card says an F for Fail on antipodean production economics, Dearborn.

Toyota, full marks for trying to make the Camry and Avalon no 1 in Australia in the 90's and Noughties...it failed because front drive cars don't work in the D and E class size ranges. If Toyota can't do it, no-one else can.
 
Yes, you nailed it all that time, we can flog that dead Horse till the Cows come home but it will not change what has and is happening to the Car Industry in this country. Many who have and will be out of work will not be happy and will remember what those three motor companies have done.

As for LEXUS, did you know that stands for - Luxury EXport US market.

I am the first person in my family in three generations that will most likely be not able to buy a Ford assembled or built in Australia.

In the last six years I have seen the smaller Ford country dealerships being forced to close and see the lack of personal service of the bigger Ford dealerships not care if your 'product' is working as it should after they have taken hours to do a service.
 
MustangSix":3lu358v0 said:
One immutable rule is that nature abhors a vacuum. If there truly is a market, someone will fill it.

That will be interesting to see after Ford, Holden and Toyota pull out all cars here will be Imported. I doubt another Company will look at it being viable to build cars here.

The only exception will be specialist vehicles like TOM CAR or the Military BUSHMASTER being built for a small market.
 
I'm curious -
Is there a significant price point difference (to the consumer) between Aus-built and import cars? Has the price of cars undergone significant increase lately?
 
Invectivus":19b43hbg said:
I'm curious -
Is there a significant price point difference (to the consumer) between Aus-built and import cars? Has the price of cars undergone significant increase lately?

The cost to build cars here became expensive. An import car often got a luxury tax. I guess that will change once we no longer make cars in Australia. Aussie built cars would compare price wise to cars in other countries. The top of the range Ford and Holden would compare to the quality of a luxury BMW as well as compare in price.
 
I thought this was one topic

Story of the last Falcon GTs made

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/ford-annou ... 05909.html

......
The new special edition will be called the Falcon GT F, and is expected to feature a supercharged version of Ford’s 5.0-liter ‘Coyote’ V-8 tuned to deliver close to 470 horsepower. The current Falcon GT models already feature this engine, but with output tuned to 450 horsepower. A six-speed manual will be standard with a six-speed automatic offered as an option.
......


450HP NA / 470HP With a blower? 5% more??
 
Three questions:

1. With approx 30 speed cameras per resident in Oz, where would you ever use 500+ hp?
2. Why would the police bother to chase you down? Just let the cameras do their job and pick you up later.
3. Are the cameras bulletproof? :eek:
 
MustangSix":21xyowtx said:
Three questions:

1. With approx 30 speed cameras per resident in Oz, where would you ever use 500+ hp?
2. Why would the police bother to chase you down? Just let the cameras do their job and pick you up later.
3. Are the cameras bulletproof? :eek:

What does this have to do with the loss of vehicle manufacturing in this country ?

1, 30 per resident Those figures sound very odd. Do you think we have more roads than people ?
As for 500hp did you not invent Drag Racing in the USA. We also have the long white Dyno called Lake Gairdner that is bigger and better than Bonneville.

2, They only chase the ones they need to and yes the bill comes in the mail or you front court and if that fails the Sherrif finds you and clamps your car until it is paid.

3, No but then to get a gun here requires much more than getting a drivers license and why shoot a camera when it has digitally photographed you. A paintball gun would have better effect :devilish:
 
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