Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Cool23":1zt82puf said:
I am sure that deserves a reply but it would be great if you corrected your spelling so I knew what much of it meant :beer:

As for the situation in Thailand lets try to keep Politics out of this as best we can. I am sure the Auto workers in that country would be well looked after by the companies as if they lose production then that is also a global loss in sales.


I so deserved that.

Fact remains that a Ford Capri/Merkur XR4TI/Scorpio captive import mentality remains with Fords head office, and your valid questions aren't being answered with upping the volume on pickup Mazdas in the US. Its an area where no-one looses, so why should there not be right hooker Mazdas in America?


The aspect with Thailand is that everyone, Ford, Jeep Toyota and GM has decided to outsource there, its the goto place. The backdrop is that at a comparative level, Holden and Ford OZ used to sell engines, body parts and whole cars there, subsidized by the Australian G*********t via export "complementation"...a reward for reducing its total amount of cars parts and model lines for a market of less than 1 million vehicles per year. The Americans Chuck Chapman and Joe Whitsell at Holden set it up with Opel engines to Daewoo, Opel Germany, Vauxhall.

It was set up to support a free trade scenario, set it up to ensure a competent engineering base got enough international sales. This is how the Astron 80 2.555, Family II 1596 and 1998 engines, and Alloytec GM High Feature were destined to succeed. Instead, Suzuki, Alfa Romeo and others build the Holden V6 engines from other GM subsidaries.

Alas, every time Holden OZ or Ford OZ attempted to network with suppliers, the market was closed. We got a whole lot of 54 degree Opel V6 engined Commodore Royales that were Singapore bound
1998_Holden_VS_II_Commodore_Royale_sedan_01.jpg
, along with 2 liter Commodore VL's and VN's. The market was there, but GM's head office purchased Daewoo, and the Asia Pacific focus of the Holden Motor Company simply ceased to exists. Same with the South African Chevrolets based on Holden HK, HG and HQ's. The Mazda Road Pacers HX based machine was the same.


It would be nice to see that other countries closer to the international hub would see some reciprocal trade form Ford Dearborn. I see a heck of a lot of cool little Toyota Cavaliers, and Chevy's grey imports from Japan in New Zealand now that were born Daewoo's, so hopefully consolidation will mean the same thing for Fords and Mazda's.


If this is Fords idea of make sure the organic whole is fertile and vibrant, then bring it on.
 
Cool23":2jqv0x8y said:
The US market is missing out on theses smaller built Diesel pickups and you can see that mentioned in many magazines like Diesel Power in the US.

Diesel has not caught on here like it has in the rest of the world. The cost of diesel is much higher at the pump, so most of your mileage gains evaporate right there.
 
Fingers":2e659l5w said:
Cool23":2e659l5w said:
Fingers":2e659l5w said:
It's not actually Mazda based, more the Mazda is Ford based :)

Well, Ford own a share of Mazda. Mazda would have designed it.

.
Ok, have it your way, Mazda designed it at their Victorian R&D centre.

Have a look at the F Series Trucks that allow the front door to open and then you open the rear door Suicide fashion. This was a Mazda Design in a neat little Coupe. Ford was able to use that design because of the share it has in Mazda. Ford also purchased Jag / Rover to get the V8 Diesel technology for the Territory then sold of Jag / Rover.

2005-mazda-rx-8-4-door-coupe-6-spd-manual-open-doors_100279352_m.jpg

04_f150stxaccess_bg.jpg

You can see here how Ford used the rear door idea from Mazda.
 
Well maybe, but what year did Mazda design and use it? Ford used that same type combo of doors suicide and (pillar less) on the US built 1997 Ford F series extra cab trucks. Also the suicide doors were used way back on the Model T Fords and many other years though to the late 1960's but they all had center pillars with them.
 
Cool23":dh3p4tp1 said:
Have a look at the F Series Trucks that allow the front door to open and then you open the rear door Suicide fashion. This was a Mazda Design in a neat little Coupe. Ford was able to use that design because of the share it has in Mazda. Ford also purchased Jag / Rover to get the V8 Diesel technology for the Territory then sold of Jag / Rover.

2005-mazda-rx-8-4-door-coupe-6-spd-manual-open-doors_100279352_m.jpg

04_f150stxaccess_bg.jpg

You can see here how Ford used the rear door idea from Mazda.

Ford did not purchase Jag/Rover to get the diesel engine, as it was a Ford/PSA (Peugeot and Citroen)joint venture.

I can see your point on the rear door mechanism,but Ford had the pillar less suicide door on the F series before Mazda designed and built the RX8.
However that does not change the fact that the Ranger was designed and tested in Australia, by FoMoCo, at Broadmeadows and You Yangs.
 
bubba22349":1l0ov5yg said:
Well maybe, but what year did Mazda design and use it? Ford used that same type combo of doors suicide and (pillar less) on the US built 1997 Ford F series extra cab trucks. Also the suicide doors were used way back on the Model T Fords and many other years though to the late 1960's but they all had center pillars with them.

It is well written that Ford took that technology for the doors from Mazda.
 
Fingers":29ttl0ta said:
Ford did not purchase Jag/Rover to get the diesel engine, as it was a Ford/PSA (Peugeot and Citroen)joint venture.

I can see your point on the rear door mechanism,but Ford had the pillar less suicide door on the F series before Mazda designed and built the RX8.
However that does not change the fact that the Ranger was designed and tested in Australia, by FoMoCo, at Broadmeadows and You Yangs.

As I posted above in the last quote about the doors yes Ford used the same design from Mazda for the F series. The Diesel in the Territory is well known to be Landrover / Rangerover based.
They then sold it all off to the India based TATA.
 
Fingers":1f2zt9k7 said:
Yes the Territory diesel engine was used by Landrover.
It is also used by Citroen in the C5 and C6.
It is used by Peugeot

It was a joint venture between PSA and Ford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17

:D (y) I had forgotten about the Lion group. Ford purchased Jag Rover to become involved with that group then sold it off after obtaining the connection.

Will be interesting to see what the Ford Diesel used in the Territory pops up in next once the Territory ends production. I have heard it said the V6 (V8?) Turbo Diesel could appear in the US built F150 and as per that link in a bigger 4.4 litre size.
 
Fingers":r9bh9tz2 said:
The US don't seem to be big on diesels, but the 3.0L with the twin turbo's would be great.

I have to correct you on that. Anything Pickup with Diesel they love. Look for a copy of Diesel Power and you will see what I mean. Although the 3.0L may take some work to convince them in the US. The Ram with the Cummins and the F Series as well as the Chevrolet pickups are very popular in the US. Although I can agree anything smaller with a Diesel in the US is not popular.

I have a 6BT Cummins in the 48 Ford and got that from Cummins as a crate motor and a Diesel crate motor is rare in the USA. Mind you I have been looking for a 4BT Cummins to put in an A model and as they are so hard to find I am thinking the 3.0L out of a Territory would be good but all those electronics on that Diesel put me off. It would even be fun to fit one into an older Falcon as that would not be to hard considering the Territory is Falcon based.
 
The growth of the market is rear drive pickups. What is happening in Australia has been happening for years in New Zealand. And people are looking at how a pickup integrates into the sedan lines.




Traydecks and sports utility wagons together almost account for almost half of monthly new vehicles registrations and the tight fight between the Hilux, which has dominated the ute sector for more than 30 years, and the Ford Ranger – which almost took the crown in 2013 and is running ahead on overall year-to-date count – continues to be a headline story.

https://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/autos/bl ... key-phase/


On the basis of popularity, Ford's Ranger in New Zealand is where the F150 was back in 1988...the highest selling vehicle bar none.
For market details see http://www.mia.org.nz/news.asp
Now, simple question, if the T6 program which spawned it was Australia produced, the ability to make money would be simple.
 
Interesting to see companies looking to change the way the small Pickup is looked at.

Foton from China already use Cummins and now Nissan (Frontier) and I have also hear possibly Toyota (Tundra) are looking to use a Cummins as the engine base.

I have also heard and it is not confirmed the Toyota Landcruiser will no longer be marketed in Australia so that may also include NZ and the US.
 
Imagine a tap on the shoulder and being told you finish up today. That is how it was done. All this is happening due to many of the smaller suppliers looking to the future. these are the sub contractors that supply parts to Ford here in the way of components.
 
Now just a matter of a few weeks before the last vehicle rolls off the Ford production line here in Australia. The last Ute came off the production line some time ago.
 
On Friday the 7th the last Australian built Falcon came off the production line at Ford Broadmeadows. Of interest here is the fact it is an inline six and the last inline six built at the Ford Geelong engine plant. This car will not be sold but will go into a Museum.

The last Territory came off the production line at the same time. Some 600 workers have now finished working for Ford.
Some design and testing work will still be done in this country.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-07/f ... rs/7909836

As of the 7th this ends 91 years of Ford Australia building and assembling vehicles in this country.

On the same day the last Holden Cruze came off the production line in South Australia and 12 months from now Holden (GMH) and Toyota will also cease production and no major manufacturer will build cars in this country.
 
Cool23":3tj75qe0 said:
On Friday the 7th the last Australian built Falcon came off the production line at Ford Broadmeadows. Of interest here is the fact it is an inline six and the last inline six built at the Ford Geelong engine plant. This car will not be sold but will go into a Museum.

The last Territory came off the production line at the same time. Some 600 workers have now finished working for Ford.
Some design and testing work will still be done in this country.

"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-06/ford-d-day/7908322"

As of the 7th this ends 91 years of Ford Australia building and assembling vehicles in this country.

On the same day the last Holden Cruze came off the production line in South Australia and 12 months from now Holden (GMH) and Toyota will also cease production and no major manufacturer will build cars in this country.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-06/f ... ay/7908322

:beer:


Nice report. Well done fellas.


Focusing on the sucess, FASPAC Vehicle design has continued. The


1. The Australian Ford design team rework of the Long Wheelbase Chinese Taurus, an Aussie Fairlane style car

A seventh-generation Ford Taurus was unveiled at the 2015 Shanghai Auto Show in April 2015. It bears a closer resemblance to the current Ford Fusion/Mondeo but with an extended wheelbase and is unique to the Mainland Chinese market. Designed in conjunction with Ford Australia and currently manufactured by Changan Ford Automobile Co., Ltd. in Hangzhou, it comes in two engine variants paired with either 2.0T EcoBoost engine or twin-turbo 2.7T V6 EcoBoost engine. Although this particular model is not manufactured outside China, there is a possibility that it will be exported to other markets in the near future.

See "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taurus"

Ford-Taurus-0.jpg


and

2. the T6 project (which begat the Thailand built Mazda BT50 and Asia-Pacific Ford Ranger and Everest), has been a stratospheric sucess.


3. The Ranger is the top selling vehicile in New Zealand, knocked off Toyota Hilux.

4. The Mazda/Ford T6 base has now gone everywhere in the Southern Hemisphere, Asia, Pacific, South Africa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRqtHV-zgzU


Meanwhile, Ford shores up and protects its important F-truck sales by the removal of the old US Ranger line.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ost1736417

I miss my 98 XLT Explorer


Top selling vehicle in New Zealand , bar none, is the Ford Ranger. It eclisped the Toyota SR5 "HiLux" last year, and sold 26000 odd in Australia, a bit below the 38,126 HiLuxes.

Australia sells as many cars in a year to 26 million people as Ford USA sold Ford Fairlanes to Americans in 1957..

Less than a million cars a year.

The New Zealand market is about 100 000 new cars total, nothing really. But in percentage terms, the Aussie designed Ranger and Mazda BT50 is over 10% of the market in NZ, and 5% of the market in Australia, good figures to have on your side for the FoMoCo balance sheet.

comparoranger_1.jpg


2012_mazda_bt_50_boss_sport_4x4_diesel_road_test_review_australia-0528-mc:819x819.jpg



Both markets are just sooo tiny compareed to the US and its stalwart F150, but the last year of the Ranger sold 70000 odd in the US for 2011. But in percentage terms of a 17 million new car market, the US Ranger didn't EVEN rate a whole percent.

The situation in NZ with the Ranger in 2015 as the US with the F150 in 1988; the trucks eclipsing the volume sedans.


The Aussie Ranger is a too pretty, lifestyle cross over from the traditional sedan tray based pickup we called Utility "Utes". Thats Ranchero, Brat, El Camino, Rampage, Rabbit pickup style integrated tray fake pickups. You know, the ones you brake in half while trying to do real mans work on the farm.

https://youtu.be/TwIsV542ZSc?t=15

"Designed and developed by Ford Australia for global markets, the Ranger is one of the best dual-cab utes when it comes to playing both workhorse and lifestyle vehicle."

But its made in Thailand, with a 198 hp 3.2 liter Diesel, so you'll never see it in the US. They snap the front drive shafts, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1LQ4hYuc8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIcvtcIabY

And that's why the US Ranger died, though its just a 'get a real truck, man' substitute, it was far, far better than a Unibody Utility integrated try pickup. It died because Ford needs to get real sales volume, and the cost and risk of a intermediate pickup with a full chassis was too much $$$ to foot, especially when the Explorer was going to a non full chassis frame.

Ford surpasses 1 million sales in Asia Pacific following best-ever August sales
-Ford sales rose 22 percent in August for total Asia Pacific region as well as for China
-August market share of 4.1 percent highest month ever for Ford in Asia Pacific
-SUVs now represent 30 percent of Ford’s vehicle sales in the region
-Thanks to the strong performance of Ranger and Transit, sales of Ford vehicles in Vietnam increased 57 percent in August,
-strong performance of EcoSport, Ranger and Everest helped increase sales of Ford vehicles in the Philippines by more than 90 percent.
-In Thailand, Ranger’s market share was up to 10 percent in the pick-up segment in August for the first time ever.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... ter-r.html
 
That is all very interesting But Isuzu have pulled the connection with GM and Holden as Isuzu have made many vehicles for Holden going back to the Jackaroo. The Holden Colorado at present is made by Isuzu. Isuzu do not want to go down the track GM want them to go along and will join up with Mazda to build a super ute. What does this mean? Well the alliance with Ford and Mazda will also most likely fold in the future and that may stop the development of both the Ranger and Everest both built in Thailand Ford Factories. Presently the Mazda BT50 is what the Ranger and Everest are based on and both the Ford and Mazda factories in Thailand are next door to each other.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/464666/gm-a ... -upmarket/

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... d51e34a3c0

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... FB00278B23

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/0 ... h-america/

In the present time Australia is looking to a future with no major vehicle manufacturing. With the exception of Mack, Kenworth etc.

Tomcar are still building here but can not get the vehicle road registered like they can in other countries.
http://www.tomcar.com.au/
 
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