new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

I will be assembling the short block this evening so should have some more pics tonight. hopefully get it fired up by the end of this month is my goal!
 
I did get the short block assembled before midnight yesterday and it looks amazing with perfect clearances and torque sequences on all those main bolts. hope to get some pics fully assembled soon because it should look nice with the upgraded top end so hopefully it will be closer to the 225--250hp range.
 
ill be getting the head back again today fRom final machining and welding in the port divider, 2v intake direct mount and a full rebuild. so ill have a solid block and 2 v head to work with that in the future I plan to shave the intake for a custom made bolt on intake that should really help take the 200 to the limit and at that point hope to make this 200 hit over the 300hp mark one day naturally aspirated.

possible pics coming tonight of the fully assembled engine.
 
so builder was behind schedule on when he said it would be done...I wanted to have this all back together to cruise for the fourth of July but just the way my project is going....I was hoping to have it running again quick with the mods but I spoke with him today and he said I can pick it up tomorrow so I can't wait to see how it looks all assembled and ill post a picture asap :)
 
okay so finally got all the engine machine work done...was held up on the head with my machinists but the results were worth the wait. head studs will be in tomorrow so I can have this all together. one problem with the holley 2305 direct mount is the throttle lever is hitting the valve cover and I really hate to cut the bottom of it off. it has two options to mount the throttle so if I cut it I should be in the clear but for future use or if I sell the carb I don't want it to be altered but I don't see another option :( any advise?

other then that its pretty close to installation time hopefully by the end of the month tops!

a few more pics in the photo bucket too and more to come.
 
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/autoX ... ads?sort=3

there's a two barrel under that big air cleaner!

has to modify the carburetor throttle linkage to mount it but everything fits snug.

went with the single springs with dampners. I couldn't find much info on those vs dual springs.

and for corporation I went with 69 jets. idle restriction is at .031 " and power valve channel restriction is at .054. any thought on those jets and any moms neccesary for a 500 holley on a 200ci?


ita coming along nice I've almost got everything assembled but need to get it in the car. hopefully next week have it fired up.
 
autoX65":5ikefi37 said:
..... one problem with the holley 2305 direct mount is the throttle lever is hitting the valve cover and I really hate to cut the bottom of it off. it has two options to mount the throttle so if I cut it I should be in the clear but for future use or if I sell the carb I don't want it to be altered but I don't see another option :( any advise? ....


Yes. Looks like you have a 3" thick air cleaner. Ditch it, and get a thinner 2 inch air cleaner, and raise the whole carb up on a phenolic spacer the extra inch so the spindle clears.

Although similar to the mechanical secondary version of the 4-bbl 4150/4160 series, I think the primary throttle spindle is exclusive to the 2305 series. When used in the Turbo 2.3 carb, they just used to cut off the base of it. The accelerator pump has to be activated, and you could unbolt the spindle, and replace it with 4150 item, with the accelerator pump arm modified. That would allow you to keep all the parts original, even if the 2305 spindle ended up in your glove box.

Ken Van Accolyen viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70844

had the same problem with his 2300 series #4412 500 cfm carb, same issue but those version of that carb have the linkage spun around, but your dealing with a similar problem to his.....he just bent it a little.





Ultimately, that's why the 2305 carb got no further market, there were to many risks of putting it on a V6 or V8 and strangling one side of the engine. It looks like any 2300 series, but it isn't, and everything that's different messes it around.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70791


I can give general advice, and that is to use the stock set up jets that the carb came with, and only make changes if it improves air fuel ratios with a gas analyser or wide band.

I can't assist on set up. As one guy (Mr Joshua on FEP) Said on a forum recently

"Real people do real things and have integrity". If I'd tuned one up, I'd give you advice, but I've only done Autolite 1250's, Stromberg-Bendix 1 and 2-bbls, SU'S, Weber 32/36's, ADM 34/34's, 9117 350 and 4412 500 cfm carbs, plus some 4150 4-bbls and Liquid Propane Gas systems. I've only done A-series 850 to 1275 Minis, 1300 cc Kent X-flows, 2.0 Pintos, 138 and 201 cubic inch Vauxhall 12 port I6's, 2.3 Colognes, 202 Holden L6's with Holley's Webers ADM's and Rochestor Varajets, 3.3 and 3.6 and 4.1 log and x-flows, and 4-bbl 351 Cleveland's, 289 Windsors and 350 Chevs. And EEC V EFi systems on 4.0 Colognes. 2305 2-bbls carbs are out side my experience.

I have too many loose ends, but the info on carbs is out there and I can set you in the right direction. The problem is its a mechanical secondary carb, and Holley's like that are easy to rejet and change, but very hard to diagnose unless you use some dyno time and a gas analyser. I don't like the two hole direct mount with a mechanical secondary carb, and there are other issues you have to strategically work through one by one, patiently.

Don't follow any recommendations on this forum related to the 4412 500 cfm, its no where near the same.
 
1. dimple the valve cover (if you have enough rocker clearance), or;

2. simply cut off the offending protuberance, or;

3. turn the carb the other way and use a longer throttle cable. It doesn't know or care which way it faces as long as the jets are covered with fuel. You may need to add jet extension tubes to prevent starving on acceleration.
 
man all I want Is to see a video of those carving through my local canyons. if these mods come closer to double the stock output I know ill be real happy.

to anyone considering building this engine its tough to get any "performance " if you will, from it without lots of time and learning curve getting familiar with a 50 year old engine, lots of time to track down and order many parts only available used in classifieds, or from the one and only classic inlines. you have to be a rare bread to want to dump the money it takes to turn the worst performance engine into something a little better. I mean I've got all this way and have 1100 in partaking and labor in the log alone.....and I'm still ashamed when I know I have to run a log. on this engine each little upgrade is so sublime you may not feel the difference if you slowely upgrade along the way.....it has to be all done at once and and for all the effort its just a little hp here a little there.

to anyone building the six I believe its not becausethey plan to resell it after, I'm
well over the 3500 range in engine parts and machine work alone that's no serious labor fees. I've done most of the workmyself and I've built over a dozen classics and this is my first straight six so even with years of experience it took me a year from .
buying the car to get it to this point even though I did drive it stock for 10k miles.

so considering I'm at the point of no return all in on this build I hope I like the upgrades. for the money in this I could have thrown in a really nice 289 with 400 hp. so this is not for everyone but my six is done up right and would last a very long time and it'll be worth it if I can stay in the 20mpg+ range.

anyone considering to upgrade don't get into deep because my end result ill still be barely at 200hp which is not exactly hi performance in a classic mustang or even todays production six cylinders. I wanted to upgraded because that's how my mind works I see a 200 and then I want to see myself take it to the limit. I just hope its worth it and I'm not getting smoked by every car out there.

I hope to be able to have some good videos and a nice break down of the build especially a write out of engine characteristics from stock to how it responds with these mods so hopefully people get a better idea if its for them. classic inlines sure doesn't factor in cost and time compared to nominal hp or tq gains for the money spent. more along the way next week and next weekend will be dedicated to the engine break in and running I'm sure ill have to get a wide band or o2 sensor to get this carburetors dialed in. the more I hear about it the more trouble it seems like people have with it.
 
I didn't, and don't respond to exactly what Holley 2-bbl jetting changes you should go to becasue the ones that are there are liley to be close to perfect, with just a jet or two up or down call size likely to give you splendid results. Unlike the 4412 part number 2300 series 500 carb, the 80095 was probably designed for a 200 hp six cylinder engine just as it comes. It was probably designed for Fords Log headed six, because there has always been unsubstantiated rumor from former FSP member and 1981 Mercury Zephyr 3.3 owner and tuner Mark P that Ford had a 2-bbl Campus/ Police Interceptor Fairmont for domestic use after the Iranian Revolution put the second fuel scare on OPEC gasoline production. Its existence been repeated again recently on other forms.

Stormin' Norman":14g4djg7 said:
.....a friend of mine in California, US Navy, also a rare 1982 Cougar wagon owner, has followed my threads on FordSix forums. Anyway he seems to recall that Ford made a police special Fairmont with a 2 BBL manifold 200 CID 6-banger, all cammed up


autoX65":14g4djg7 said:
more along the way next week and next weekend will be dedicated to the engine break in and running I'm sure ill have to get a wide band or o2 sensor to get this carburetors dialed in. the more I hear about it the more trouble it seems like people have with it.


Lets back up. The 2305 is a great carb, but having a mechanical secondary Holley 500 cfm carb is totally different to any other2-bbl Holley, as its not the same as the 2300 in fuel requirements in any way at all. Its not a vacuum secondary carb, either. Its pretty much a downdraft 43/43 mm Weber carb with 35 mm throats (venturis), or like having a really big Holley 1904/Holley 1940/Autolite 1101/Carter YFA primary carb linked to another Holley 1904/Holley 1940/Autolite 1101/Carter YFA mechanical secondary. As such, the 1.375 venturi, 1.6875" throttle is exactly like the biggest single carb found on the 226/261 or 240-300 or 250 engines, and that means the first barrel can make 108 hp, and both open can make 216 hp at 1.5 inches of mercury.

The only thing like it in the Ford empire is the 1982 to 1992 Aussie X-flow 200/250 cubic inch Weber mechanical secondary 34/34 ADM 320 cfm carb with 28/28 but the Holley 2305 500 has with 26% oversized throats (venturis) and throttles. As a carb, the Weber mech sec ADM 34 is a very, very good carb with great fuel economy and very nice primary to secondary modulation. They made big heavy 3000 to 3500 pound intermediate Falcons do 110 mph top speeds, 17.6 to 17.9 second quarter miles, and even when thrashed, they still gave over 20 us mpg. It did service in unleaded 3.3 engines with as little as 117 hp and 174 lb-ft, or high compression leaded fuel engines with as much as 148 hp and 233 lb-ft.

in 1987, Australian Dick Johnston found 197 hp (147 KW) with the 2305 series Holley 500 cfm carb when the 280 degree cam upgraded 2-bbl intake XF SVO engine was being developed by the Brisbane Engine Center. He used a 4.1 engine from his Falcon pickup as the development mule, with x-flow head, Genie headers and it was planned to use 95 ron/mon over 2 octane Shell Optimax (your US 93 AKI) in an unleaded gasoline engine with the earlier 9.35:1 compression ratio car with 2.77 axle and T5 according to Wheels Mag January 87 Dick Johnson's SVO XF Falcon reporter Mike Stahl. The car couldn't meet the cost, 200-215 HP performance targets, emissions and durability targets as a carb unleaded car, so they then went to EFI unleaded, and the project then stalled. Two were built. Ex English F1 engineer Peter Harden's rework of the EFI engine with a better cam and carb made the machine quite a lot quicker, and fun to drive, even with a tall 2.77 axle. In context, the 2-bbl carb Dick Johnston used wasn't a performance limit, it was the 87 US aki (91 ron/mon over 2) fuel, and 1987 emissions regulations that stopped it being made as a warmed up 4.1 with Holley 2-bbl. It ended up with Ford Motorsport branded EFI snorkel and parts, and maybee 6 cars in total were made, but only the first had the modified SVO 4.1 EFI six with Peter Hardens 280 degree cam.







if you extrapolate it out, a mech sec carb with 56% more cfm should give up to 230 hp with ease if its set up right. In actuality, we've seen 289's with 500 cfm 2300 Holley 2-bbls make 352 hp with the right kind of NASCAR style cam in Historic C Carerra Panamerica 65 Mustangs.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... to_12.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... to_06.html

WinstonCupstylerestrictionplateinductioncamandheadflowfor2-bbl500cfmKiethDorton4412carbon289Mustang.jpg


And single 2-bbl Weber IDA 48's make 390 hp in Argentina's Tourismo Catterra's with 183 cubic inch I6's. So its not unrealistic to see more than 205 hp Crosley's 15 second early round body log head 200 cube I6 Falcon makes, just using what you have.


The little 2305 350 cfm should be as good as the Weber 34 ADM, and the 500 cfm 2305 should run away faster than any mistreated servant. Holley's base jetting and settings for each will be very close to optimum. Colt Industries Holley brand might have taken a real quality bashing to its good name with the roll out of the cheap and nasty horizontal shut line Motocraft 4350c syle 1976 to 1988 4360, 4010 and 4011 4-bbl carbs, but all the 2305's used great design and lots of 2300 series commonality, and Holley's engineers also made the Ford Carpenter 370 cid 2-bbl 2300C and Mustang 5.0GT 5.8 CV/MM Police Interceptor /5.8 & 7.8 liter F250/350 4180C series emissions carbs in the same 1982 period where the 2305 appeared. These were all top notch Holley's.

The 500 cfm 2305 is no turkey, it's just a rare, not well understood 2-bbl carb which still drips fuel from its vertical shut line float bowl.

You should in theory be able to put a US $26.50 1:1 linkage from the 390 cfm 6895 cfm carb on it, and run a 2300 series float bowl or a primary front float bowl Edelbrock or Weber or TMP Power Plate, and set it up like the primary barrels of the 650, 700 or 750 4150 series double pumper. The base 2305 casting is still 100% 2300, but it has the main body drilled differently for a special PVCR and idle jet arrangements.



Although the Weber kit has its detractors when used in the stock front float bowl setting, in your i6 instillation, the intermediate circuit and power valve would never be exposed under acceleration, and the changes in float level still allows the whole existing recommended emulsion tubes to be used, and are are good for a 4-bbl 400 to 500 hp engine, so that's 200 to 250 hp of calibrated power right there. Though these kits are considered flawed, they were used extensively in our Improved Production and oval tract 308 to 351 race engines in Australia , the kit allowing 308's to get to 400 hp, and 351's to get 450 hp. Full jet changes with the engine running, and none of the traditional Holley vertical float bowl split line to slow down jet changes.


Its been acknowledged for years that there are more than one way to tune Holley carbs. Forum exports like Wsa111 use the best air bleed and pvcr kits, with booster and other blueprint changes to his 4412 2300 series 500 2-bbls, but you ca also fall back to the time honored Weber IDA methods of emulsion tube, jet and air corrector changes, along with the stock power valve. Either way, if the stock Holley 2305 500 cfm calibration doesn't make 200 hp, its pretty easy to make one that will.
 
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