Aluminum head spring question?

Mustang_Geezer

Well-known member
Anyone know what the application is for the valve springs for the aluminum head? I work at a CARQUEST store and I need to order me some ASAP!

Thanks,

Doug
 
Your Schnider cam is custom, ISN'T IT? , so what did you order the CI head with?

SI and Clay Smith have there own supply of valve springs for Classic Inlines.The details are there in the website, and coped below with my notes. The CI head comes with Clay Smith Valve springs. You won't be able to get those from another supplier, unless you look through the Windsor parts catalogue and match the specs.

I'd order some CSC-200-TOY from Clay Smith, or talk to SI.


NB1// There are a two errors in the tables, like coil bind is 0.525, not 0.925"
NB2// The soild bind, take that 1.100" with a grain of salt, probably an error



All CI are 1.600" installed height, with bind at .580", but can cope with lift to 0.528" with a 1.65;1 roller rocker from a 320 thou net lobe lift


The soild bind, take that 1.100" with a grain of salt, probably an error


A.Call Name
B.Type
C.Seat pressure
D.Lift pressure
E.Coil Bind distance
F.Max Duration it suits
G.Notes

They are designed for 500 viton seals for clearance, I think

http://classicinlines.com/springs.asp

1.SSI-OEM-SPG
170/200/250ci
Single Spring
54 lbs
150 lbs
0.430 coil bind
Stock only
Recommend
289 valve springs


2.SSI-289-SPG 170/200/250ci
289
Single Spring
60 lbs
175 lbs
0.530
up to 260 Dur.
verify coil bind
and clearance

3.SSI-302-SPG 170/200/250ci
302
Single Spring
80 lbs
200 lbs
0.480
up to 270 Dur.
Verify coil bind
and clearance

4.SSI-302-SPG-HP 170/200/250ci
302-HP
Single Spring
100 lbs
270 lbs
0.450
up to 280 Dur.
Verify coil bind
and clearance

5.CSC-200-SST
170/200/250ci
Single Spring
w/Damper
80 lbs
170 lbs
0.525
up to 265 Dur.
Viton Seals & Machining may be Required

6.CSC-200-STY 170/200/250ci
Single Spring
w/Damper
100 lbs
180 lbs
0.525
up to 275 Dur.
Viton Seals & Machining may be Required

7.CSC-200-TOY 170/200/250ci
Dual Spring
110 lbs
260 lbs
0.525
up to 295 Dur.
Viton Seals & Machining may be Required
 
I was hoping that they weren't custom made and interchanged with something like a stock 289 302 4.6 litre 460 ci something like that. I would rather order them trough work (I work at a auto parts store) being I can have them overnite with free shipping and put them on my account at work.

Thanks,

Doug
 
Actually I was on the Classic Inlines website and it doesn't really show a difference between the stock cast head and the aluminum head spring part numbers. Now I'm really confused.
 
What's your peak valve lift and duration?

The first four valve springs you can get anywhere. 289, 302, 302 HP, with all the dimensions

If your cam is over 480 thou lift, and over 265 degrees duration, (and I'm certain it is) then you'll have to find a similar custom early Windsor replacement spring. The last 3 (5,6 and 7) are combination performance springs for a modified 302.


Just input the outside diameter and look for something as a replacement within spec. Classic Inlines heads don't have long valves, so they use short, squat springs, and up the poundage with flat wound damper or additional springs. Pretty much any early Windsor stuff should be close.

CC make some 942-16's

http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/cm-942-16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMP-SBF-289-30 ... 1251933395


Ferra make heavy poundage 302 HP singles which may fit, S10019, but they are about 130 seat, 320 open before bind. It should sit on the machined spacer.

http://www.ferrea.com/Ford-Valve-Spring ... model=3043


That should get you somewhere. If the cams been run in, I'd go for that



Good luck!
 
xctasy said:
All CI are 1.600" installed height, with bind at .580", but can cope with lift to 0.528" with a 1.65;1 roller rocker from a 320 thou net lobe lift


Looks like my valve bind clearance may be touch and go, I've got the aluminium head with dual valve springs and am planning on running a cam with a measured lobe lift of .318" and 1.65:1 rockers, should put me just under the total lift of .528" with some valve lash...
 
Warning, on the CI head do not machine the valve spring seat at all, otherwise you will machine into the intake port.
The correct approach is longer valves so you can use springs designed for a 1.7" spring seat height.
Doing the above you can achieve a valve lift of close to .590" using the proper springs.
Keep in mind you will need to shim up the rocker arm pedestals & will need longer pushrods.
The above will let you use a very aggressive camshaft with high lift & valve spring tensions close to 140# seat & 340# open.
Solid lifters only & with the laser oiling orifice in the lifter contact to camshaft lobe to prevent camshaft wear.
A nitride hardened camshaft is recommended.
The head has the flow capacity to accommodate the above.
 
Guys, not replacing anything but the springs! :D No new cam valves or anything like that.

The head is warped and it blew the number 2 cylinder on the headgasket for the 2nd time so it was time to take it and have it checked out.

I'll do some looking on the links you gave me and try to compare it at work.

Thanks!

Doug
 
Any idea why the head warped Doug, has it been running hot or anything like that?

What head gaskets have you been using?
 
XMFalcon221":20m92cks said:
Any idea why the head warped Doug, has it been running hot or anything like that?

What head gaskets have you been using?

He said it was more of a twist in the head and not so much a warp. He said the big problem (and not a real big problem) was that the head gasket fire rings had ate into the head a bit. Nothing major just needed to be cleaned up a bit. He said all in all the head looked really good! The valves looked good, seats weren't beat up, looked pretty good for as long as I had run it.

The head gasket is a Fel-Pro.

Later,

Doug
 
Dean & Bill,

Those springs don't fit MY aluminum head.

Heres my specs my machinist gave me for the springs,

OD 1.250
ID w/damper .880
ID w/o damper .930
Installed height 1.550

I spent several hours today looking through the Comp & Crane websites and there is nothing that has that installed height.

Mine is a preproduction head, maybe Mike changed something afterwords? I'll have to get in touch with him being none of the replacement springs on the classic inlines website will fit on my head.

Thanks,

Doug
 
If its pre production it might have GM Holden L6, V8 or Ford Australia springs. The team that cast them were Australian, and they were based on Yella Terra parts, which Mike replaced with SI.


I'd say Holden 253/308, these ones, but I think they are 1.75" installed. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lunati-Valve ... 1106447306


http://mail.precisionintl.com/Part.aspx?ID=35501

The V8 Holdens have a very tall valve, while the Ford valve is much shorter. The little L6 Holden is most likely what it is, Yella Terra, Installed Height with Std Valves and .060” Valve Spring Insets/Shims 1.520”
Spring Seat OD. 1.250



The 283 Chev vlave and 253/308 are similar, and are used on the L6's are shorter
 
They were shorter springs for 289 valves after a October 4, 1965 change to the shorter valves. If you missmatch the wrong types, you can end up with 1.55" installed.


Somewhere, some one will have some 289 valve springs to suit that did this. There is a combination of differences between the valve keeper groves, the spring base, the insert, and the valve spring. You need to look at the valve bind issues. Something like this has happened.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/c ... oblem.html


Your way forward is a different retainer that sits a 1.86 free height valve at 1.64.

Can you find a different retainer that won't hit the valve gear?
 
We spent more time at work today and have come to the conclusion that no domestic spring will fit this either stock or hi-po without changing the valves out to a longer stem length.

HOWEVER I did figure out on the Classic Inlines website that the springs I need are CSC 200 STY (single w/damper) or the CSC 200 TOY (double valve spring) and these have a different install height vs the other springs listed which are for the iron 6 cylinder head.

http://www.classicinlines.com/Springs.asp

I cant find a way to order these springs on the website so I PM'd Mike for additional information. I'm in no hurry being I have till April to get it back together. I'll post some pics of it when I get it back!

Thanks,

Doug
 
Mustang_Geezer":1c4r74ft said:
HOWEVER I did figure out on the Classic Inlines website that the springs I need are CSC 200 STY (single w/damper) or the CSC 200 TOY (double valve spring) and these have a different install height vs the other springs listed which are for the iron 6 cylinder head.

http://www.classicinlines.com/Springs.asp

I cant find a way to order these springs on the website so I PM'd Mike for additional information. I'm in no hurry being I have till April to get it back together. I'll post some pics of it when I get it back!

Thanks,

Doug


I find the springs (Bold) listed on the valve train parts pages for the small 6 . 60 dollars for the STY springs. 80 dollars for the TOY springs; per set of 12
 
Mustang_Geezer":3vg77tpq said:
Actually I was on the Classic Inlines website and it doesn't really show a difference between the stock cast head and the aluminum head spring part numbers. Now I'm really confused.


Oh, I see what you ment. There isn't a difference, its the spring seats position relative to the valve that makes the difference.

The free spring becomes 80 thou shallower installed. Thats becasue there is now an insert, and a spring pad spacer which preloads the spring more.

And Crosley was right, see this.

http://classicinlines.com/proddetail.as ... SC-STY-SPG


But although it says 1.68" installed, that spring ends up as 1.60 installed on the aluminum head.

Your spring seats you have won't be as machined as the later ones.


Im sure Mike will help you. The 1.55 figure your machinist got is now the question. 50 thou difference to 1.60" installed Clay Smith CSC-STY-SPG spring.
 
I was at the machine shop today and he showed me that it is 1.55 a 1.60 or 1.65 will not work because of coil spring bind. I PM'd Mike to see if he had any info. The springs I have are not small block Ford springs and they have a 2 piece retainer.

Its not a big deal. I (we) just thought it would be eay to replace the springs now. In the future we are going longer valves so we can and different springs, locks and keepers.

Not complaining or anything like that, just trying to solve a mystery! (y) :nod:

Thanks,

Doug
 
Finally found some springs that would fit my head and I had them in my shop at home! After many hours of searching for a match on the internet I was cleaning my shop up and noticed my old set of Clifford Performance valve springs I had ordered for my old iron log head a few years ago.

Dropped them off at the machine shop this morning and he did some measuring and said they were a really good fit, just had to test ALL the springs to make sure they were all still allright.

Hopefully they all test out allright so I can get the head back on!

Later,

Doug
 
Doug, Clifford uses the Pioneer line of springs.
Years ago it used to be a dual spring, a couple of years ago he went to a single spring with damper.
 
wsa111":ryoakatx said:
Doug, Clifford uses the Pioneer line of springs.
Years ago it used to be a dual spring, a couple of years ago he went to a single spring with damper.

Bill,

They are double springs from the early 2000's? I bought the aluminum head in 06 IIRC so they have to be from 03 or 04. They are definitely doubles not a single with a damper.

Later,

Doug
 
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