high ratio rocker arms

On the A series 1275 cc engines, offset bushes on the steel rocker shaft were made to take the rocker arm from 1.18:1 to 1.31:1.

No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

You'd be better using a narrowed FE rocker arm, and use custom made Offset bushes on a downsized rocker shaft. You can easily get another 12% rocker ratio from some stock 1.5:1's to get 1.69:1. But if you use machine down (narrowed) 1.73:1 FE hydraulics, you can get 1.65 on the small six, and then go up to almost 1.85:1,the same as an OHC Falcon 4.0.

Ask RAS if they will outsource them to build a 1.76:1 non adjustable hydraulic rocker http://www.spridgetmania.com/part/2A21/ ... dget--Mini

http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic ... ht=rockers
I tested S rockers, pressed steel rockers, and the late sintered ones.
I found the S ones gave 1.16:1, pressed steel 1.21:1, and sintered 1.18:1.
All were measured on the same 12G940 head, with an RE13 cam (0.290" lobe lift) fitted.

I like the pressed steel (round pad) ones, with 0.44" offset bushes in I can get them up to 1.31:1 ratio. And their pads are harder than the S rockers.

See Image http://home.exetel.com.au/zoomini/zoomi ... GP1558.JPG

The oval pad 1275 ones with the same offset bushes, I got 1.35:1. Simon K has a set in his S.

No one in there right mind would spend a pound to get an ounce. No, hang on, um, what I ment was probably "spend ounce money for no bang for the buck". Ford started with a serious 1.76:1 solid lifter ratio, any I6 builder stuck with 1.5:1 ratios should do the same.
 
BCOWANWHEELS":3c2k0sbh said:
I talked to Robert at Harland sharp today and he told me 30-50 bucks each for just the rocker arm

That's only $180-$300 for the rocker arm set.
Yella Terra's will run you over $500.
 
yep and I bet it will be close to 600.00 plus you have to send a excellent shaft and rocker up for them to measure from. someone needs to contact scorpion.............
 
BCOWANWHEELS":9xmhrzxf said:
yep and I bet it will be close to 600.00 plus you have to send a excellent shaft and rocker up for them to measure from. someone needs to contact scorpion.............
The problem with having an interest in "off brand" or "low interest" niches like this is that even a product like this won't even get the attention of companies like Scorpion or Harland Sharp even if you wanted 100 sets of them. The Slant 6 guys approached one of the companies with a 100 set opening order and they said "Not interested, don't call back". $300-$600 for a set of rockers that nobody will make and stock on the shelf is cheap! If you want a set of $99 roller rockers, build a SBC or a SBF.
 
I never said I was "getting" roller rockers. I said my friend is building me a set of adjustable 1.6 ratio oem rockers,new hard chrome shaft,new springs and he said I don't want old stands so he,s going with new best I could understand. also new pushrods with cups. I,d like rollers but price makes it out of the question for me and most others. the market jusy don't support the cost. I didn't mean to miss leed anybody.
 
In your very first post you asked who made roller rockers for these engines, so I assumed this was the direction you were going in and was what this whole thread was based on. No problem.
 
i thought high ratio was above 7.1
 
well considering stock is somewhere between 1.43 to 1.46 I think for a mild street engine 1.6 true is pretty good as it adds about .45 thou lift.
 
BCOWANWHEELS":29io2l04 said:
well considering stock is somewhere between 1.43 to 1.46 I think for a mild street engine 1.6 true is pretty good as it adds about .45 thou lift.



Which is why we get only 220 to 235 hp from stock valve gear engines.


Ford established in 1958 that they were gonna need 1.73 and 1.76 idealy at least to beat emerging polyspheric Chevy and Hemi engines.

Your wedge cylinder head needs a proper, modern rocker ratio. Ford Australia always wanted to go to Cleveland/FE style ratios in there imported US 5.0 engines. I took em 8 years, but in 2000 to 2003, they went to 1.7 ratio rockers in the last 5.0 engines, and the results were dramatic. They got better economy, sound, performance, and extended the engine so it could cope with another 30 cubic inches in final 5.6 liter, 335 hp form. That none of you Americans got the 5.6 Windsor V8 it is because you didn't understand that its little gains that make the engine create better power.


Its why Ford USA never made the cross flow 4.9 as well. Whcih can fit CHEVY ROCKER ARMS

Sometimes, its better to bite the bullet on a real development spree, other times, its better to optimize.


We respect your decisions, but they are wrong when both peak power, and off idle to peak torque is compromised with these low lift rocker arms in a head that needs every ounce of breathing. It took years for Roush to get 1.7:1 rocker arms into 5.0 and 5.8 Mustangs, but they work, and the right cam can then make power and torque.

Its like spoiling a ship becasue the cost of tar is too high.

This kind of "money philosphy" sets power development back into the dark ages...
 
I,d be extreamly happy to get 225 hp out of my 250 engine. if money is no object for some let them step up to the plate and get some parts into being marketed. just remember its a hobby not big buck nascar or nhra. I,d be happy with a honest 175-185 hp engine. I am not a racer anymore but just enjoy getting a bit more out of it than ford did.
 
If you copy FordSedan Devliery's 440 cfm triple carb 250 engine, cam, and head, you'll get well over 225 flywheel hp. Easy. But it was an 11:1 compression ratio engine. But if you want 9.5:1 compression, then you'll need 1.73:1 rockers to make up the loss

Croselys 200 makes 205 flywheel hp with one 500 cfm Holley 2-bbl, and its a mild 200.


So between the two, there is a clear issue where the log head requires a better kind of cam lift profile, and some work on the porting to suit. Then the valve lift can go up. Ford Australia instantly lifted the cams lift profile, and made sapce for the valves to creat lift. So its all about how many total dollars you spend to get a hp level you'd like.


The rocker and cam pacakge with a log hea will cost as much as the Classic Inlines head and its normal Clay smith cam.


Those 1.65:1 rockers and Clay Smith Cam suited the head, but the head gave the power. If you do more cam and rocker work, the log head can be made to shoot well over 225 hp in a 9.5:1 compression engine.


Its the lift profile, cam and rockers that you need to gell together. The FE designers were prevented putting all the FE smarts into the Small Six because of budget. The Windsor was a backward step for many years, the Cleveland a forward step. The Chevy LS 4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0/6.2 engines copied Fords wedge head development work, and new of what Honda and Fords 1970's partner ship work ment for the canted valve big block Chevy and Ford 335 and 385 engines. They found that the canted vale engines were like Hemis, and they made emissions harder to obtain, and made less power for a given compression ratio. The Windsors wedge head became the darling, and the rocker ratio issue took Ford years to correct becasue the engineers decided to look at CFI, 4BBL and Port EFI. They didn't even look at the rocker ratio on Windsors becasue of the money.


That was a bad move, but you can address that with a 250 six by thinking.


"If I want 1.7 to 1.85:1 rocker ratios, what is the least I have to spend to get it, and how much hp do I get, and compared to any other change. IS IT WORTH IT?"

The answer is yes, its worth it, but you have to look at the gains in a per dollar basis, but not let the money rule out your options.


Hp costs, but not that much if your not buying other stuff. At 500 thou lift, there is 165 to 185 cfm per intake port air flow hiding in a late model log head if you manifold the carbs properly.


You can only get that CFM by lifting the valves higher than 500 thou. The advantage of rocker arms with high lift rates is that you need the peak lift cfm to be gotten by a higher than 500 thou lift, and that the engine is at sub 500 thou lifts twice as many times as it is at maxiumum lift.


You gain power, but you gain torque eveywhere if the cam suits the application. The valve lifters on Fords are big dimaeter, and make a great lift curve, which the high ratio rockers love.

Roller rockers won't help you in power at Dyno Test one on day one, but after 50000 miles, your vlave guides will like properly designed roller tip rocker. The valve guides can over comethe need to roller tip rockers. If designed right, they will help durablity, BUT cHEVY PROVED THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ROLLER TIP ROCKERS .

In the same way, Non roller cam engines can make as much power as roller cam engines, but on a road engine, you can too easily wipe out a cam follower or lobe, and put metal fragments through your engine. NASCAR engines are state of the art in making a poor engine combo work, but they use 1.9:1 rocker ratios to do it.





Anyway, its your choice.
 
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