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Crane 500511 or 503901

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Wesman07
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Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #1 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:10 pm

Hey guys I've been trying to decide on a cam shaft for my 1990 ish 300 motor. Im guessing A have about 150k on it now.

Anyway, it in my 86 f150 with and np435 3.55 gears and 35" tires. It is an absolutely great combo! But like everyone else, I want a little more. My two complaints are

1) there is a dead spot when I start off. If the rpms fall slightly below 1,000, it totally falls on its face.

I would assume this is because of the 4 degree retarded cam?

2) I wish it had a little more for those 4th gear hills. When I load up with camping gear and the dirtbikes I'm weighing in at about 6k

On the highway I'm at 2,250 rpm @65 and 2,500 @70ish.

So the question is do I go with the smaller 511 cam? Or the 901?

Can I advance the 901??
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:39 pm

The 503901 will give you the extended power range you need for pulling.
It is your typical RV cam profile for the 300 six.

Does the engine still have the stock EFI system?

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #3 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:53 pm

Do you recommend that cam over the crane? Will either one of those cams fix the low end dead spot without advancing it?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #4 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:58 pm

Wesman07 wrote:Do you recommend that cam over the crane? Will either one of those cams fix the low end dead spot without advancing it?

No.
I would go with the Crane 901.
The Melling has a very long advertised duration and I've seen at least one review where it did not have the low end torque as expected.

As far as the low end dead spot, Does the engine still have the stock EFI system?

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #5 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:02 pm

The only thing I have done was remove the smog system and delete the egr. I am thinking about reconnecting the egr and putting it on a bypass switch. Other than that it's just a good running motor with a mild exhaust and high flow cat
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #6 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:14 pm

The only reason I made those modifications was because I was constantly at 3/4 throttle. Now I get around at 1/4- 1/2. It would be nice to have an egr for highway only
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:58 pm

The cam is not responsible for the dead spot just above an idle.
The EGR does lower cylinder temps which reduces NOx but the lower temps also help reduce detonation.
Not sure why the dead spot. The obvious question is: Was the dead spot there before you made the modifications?

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #8 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:06 pm

Yes. None of the modifications had any noticeable draw backs.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:20 pm

Wesman07 wrote:Yes. None of the modifications had any noticeable draw backs.

Was the dead spot there before you made the modifications?

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #10 by Wesman07 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:25 am

pmuller9 wrote:
Wesman07 wrote:Yes. None of the modifications had any noticeable draw backs.

Was the dead spot there before you made the modifications?


Yes. The dead spot was there for as long I can remember. It is more of a clear drop in power below 1,000 rpm.

I think it has a lot to do with the np435 trans. I start in second most of the time, so it is a fairly heavy load in the motor.

I always had a feeling that if I advanced my stock cam, it would go away
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #11 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:39 am

Wesman07 wrote:Yes. The dead spot was there for as long I can remember. It is more of a clear drop in power below 1,000 rpm.
I think it has a lot to do with the np435 trans. I start in second most of the time, so it is a fairly heavy load in the motor.
I always had a feeling that if I advanced my stock cam, it would go away


The way you describe it here would indicate advancing the cam would help.

The stock cam has a long advertised duration of 268* and including the 4 degrees retard puts the intake valve closing point 68* ABDC.
The Crane 901 cam only has a 260* advertised intake duration and if you install the intake lobe center at the specified 108* ATDC the intake valve closes 10* sooner at 58* ABDC.
Should be an improvement at off idle torque.

The down side is that it does make the engine more sensitive to detonation.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #12 by Fordman75 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:37 am

I think it's more the 3.55 gears with 35" tires. Is the dead spot there if you start in grany low (1st gear ) ?
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #13 by Wesman07 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:18 pm

Ok thanks PMuller9. That was information I was looking for
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #14 by Wesman07 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:34 pm

It is still there but is less nociable. The truck came with 3.08 rear gears. So when I increased tire size, I re feared it so the finial drive was about the same.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:27 pm

If you change the cam you need to change the valve spring also.
You would use the Crane 96803 springs and 99946 retainer.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #16 by Wesman07 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:41 pm

Ok good to know. Don't I need lifters as well? Or do they come with the cam shaft?

Should I compression test this motor before I ask more from it?

I am a two stroke guy, so this whole cam shaft thing is unfamiliar territory lol
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #17 by Fordman75 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:19 pm

Wesman07 wrote:It is still there but is less nociable. The truck came with 3.08 rear gears. So when I increased tire size, I re feared it so the finial drive was about the same.


3.55's is not enough gear for 35" tires. You really need something in the 4.10/4.11 range.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

pmuller9
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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #18 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:37 pm

Wesman07 wrote:Ok good to know. Don't I need lifters as well? Or do they come with the cam shaft?
Should I compression test this motor before I ask more from it?
I am a two stroke guy, so this whole cam shaft thing is unfamiliar territory lol


The lifters come separate. Here is the list.
Crane 503901 cam
Crane 99280-12 lifters
Crane 96803-12 springs (Note: If you don't want to wait till march order 96803-16) you end up with 4 extra springs.
Crane 99946-12 retainers
Crane 99097-1 locks

Yes do a compression check.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #19 by Wesman07 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:53 pm

With 4.10 gears my rpm's at 65- 70 would be way too high. I have already thought about it and stregically picked 3.55 gears for my application.

I just drove this truck around the country. It was was fully loaded, weighing over 6k. A 4.10 ratio would have added a few hundred dollars to the fuel bill or a couple hours in driving :)
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #20 by Fordman75 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:13 pm

Wesman07 wrote:With 4.10 gears my rpm's at 65- 70 would be way too high. I have already thought about it and stregically picked 3.55 gears for my application.

I just drove this truck around the country. It was was fully loaded, weighing over 6k. A 4.10 ratio would have added a few hundred dollars to the fuel bill or a couple hours in driving :)


It's your truck, so run what you want. But a cam isn't going to fix the gearing issue. The 35's with a 3.55 is very likely your low end dead spot. It would use more fuel with the 4.10 gears. But it will also be a lot quicker accelerating and better for those hills. You are not going to hurt the 300 running it at the rpm's you'd be at doing 65-70 with the 35" tires. But it will use some more fuel. I'm going with the 4.10's in my van ( 300/NP435 ) and I'll be running 32's.

Anyways back to your cam discussion.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #21 by pmuller9 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:30 pm

If a dead spot below 1000 rpm shows up in granny low first gear and the OP wants it eliminated then he is going about it the right way.
The only time he sees the dead spot is when starting from a stand still.
The 4.10 gear may help just like starting out in first gear instead of second but it still won't make it go away.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #22 by Wesman07 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:03 am

Exactly.

Starting off in first can be tricky. The gas to clutch ratio has to be perfect. If not, it will either jump off the line or bog for a second and then go. There is a 100 rpm sweet spot.

It is a accually much easier to start off with a load because it is more predictable.
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #23 by tnab1970 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:26 am

Any update on the Crane 503901 camshaft performance?

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #24 by jason832 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:11 pm

My 85 has 3.55 gears and 35 inch tires, and a np435. It already turns over 2000rpm on the highway, more than enough. The np435 has enough gearing to get you going fine.

With factory efi I don't know what the computer will tolerate or how much power the stock everything else can even support. Google around for "ford 300 efi cam" there are a few designed to run fine with the efi I believe.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #25 by old28racer » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:01 pm

Why would I buy a Crane 503901 over an Egin RV torque cam $137 Crane / $106 Elgin

Crane Adv Dur Int -- 260 Exh -- 272 Elgin Adv Dur Int -- 280 Exh -- 290
Dur @ .050 Int -- 204 Exh -- 216 Dur @ .050 Int --204 Exh -- 214
Lift Int -- .458 Exh -- .487 Lift Int -- .451 Exh -- .475

If it's just name?
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #26 by pmuller9 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:36 pm

old28racer wrote:Why would I buy a Crane 503901 over an Egin RV torque cam $137 Crane / $106 Elgin

Crane Adv Dur Int -- 260 Exh -- 272 Elgin Adv Dur Int -- 280 Exh -- 290
Dur @ .050 Int -- 204 Exh -- 216 Dur @ .050 Int --204 Exh -- 214
Lift Int -- .458 Exh -- .487 Lift Int -- .451 Exh -- .475

If it's just name?

See Post #11

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #27 by old28racer » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:15 am

Thanks pmuller9 for the lesson.
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #28 by Wesman07 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:23 am

tnab1970 wrote:Any update on the Crane 503901 camshaft performance?


The engine has around 250k on it, its healthy but getting old. My better judgement told me to save the cam for the new motor. So I just put in new timing gears, advanced the cam, injectors, and fixed what was broke, and put it back in the truck.

I plan on building a motor with a stock bottom end, cleaned up efi head, the 901 cam, larger injectors and some sort of fuel controller. A solid 200hp/300lbft in the 1,000 - 4,500 rpm range. The only problem is, my tired motor is never the "squeaky wheel".... so the project gets put on the backs burner while I fix everything else. Long live the 300 six!
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #29 by Wesman07 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:36 am

For the record... advancing the cam did not cause any negative side affects. It did make the motor feel more "stout", like truck motors should feel. The motor does not need to work as hard to get the truck rolling, and is perfectly happy starting off at 900 rpm. The motor also likes to sit just below peak hp (3,200) when it's being worked, on long grades.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #30 by jason832 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:15 am

Wesman07 wrote:I plan on building a motor with a stock bottom end


Wesman07 wrote: A solid 200hp/300lbft in the 1,000 - 4,500 rpm range


Wesman07 wrote: Long live the 300 six!

I doubt it will live that long with stock pistons.

Pistons can be replaced easily. As long as the six of them are weight matched you don't have any balancing issues. Lighter ones will also help take some strain off the rods and rod bolts. I used the sealed power h519p and e-229k rings. They're cheap, weight matched when bought in a kit and are a great replacement for stock pistons.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #31 by guhfluh » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 pm

jason832 wrote:
Wesman07 wrote:I plan on building a motor with a stock bottom end


Wesman07 wrote: A solid 200hp/300lbft in the 1,000 - 4,500 rpm range


Wesman07 wrote: Long live the 300 six!

I doubt it will live that long with stock pistons.

Mine has no problems.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #32 by jason832 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:36 am

I somewhat built the original 85, family inherited 300 in my truck. Stock never opened bottom end and it had about 120k KM. Only modifications were a 4 barrel, Clifford intake, and headers. Within a few months it lost most compression in one of the cylinders. That bottom end sits on my garage floor with a scratched cylinder.

Shortly after that I planned and did a full performance build from the ground up. The Frenchtown Flyer said that even a stock rebuild should get new pistons, let alone any performance build.

OP can build his motor how he wants, but I strongly recommended new pistons. They're cheap, don't require the engine to be rebalanced like a v8, and its the last thing in a motor you want to break, its the last part out and the first in.

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #33 by guhfluh » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:25 am

Mine is also an 85 bottom end.

I wouldnt worry about an EFI bottom end with hyper pistons if it's good to start with. Swapping pistons in just because isn't an easy task, nor is machine shop work cheap. Only if the budget allows and you're starting with earlier cast pistons would I consider it.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #34 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:32 pm

The later EFI engines with hypereutectic, strutless pistons are vastly superior to the problem-prone cast strutted pistons of the carbed era. I rarely take apart a carbed engine where I don't find at least a couple with cracked skirts. While every engine with cracked or broken skirts will not have a catastrophic failure the odds are high enough that I would consider a piston upgrade to the now commonly available hypereutectic units.
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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #35 by old28racer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:11 pm

FTF do you think the 1992 EFI 300 I picked up had OEM Hyper pistons? They look real good but they only had 1000 or so miles on them in a farm truck before the fiber cam gear spit some teeth. Picture below.

<img src="https://image.ibb.co/nQwS9k/300_Motor_13.jpg" alt="300 Motor 13" border="0" />
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

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Re: Crane 500511 or 503901

Post #36 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:52 am

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