Turbo 240 or 300

Ok cool I like the top of the tank a lot better. I guess im not that against in tank pumps but either way they are ten fold more difficult to replace. Yeah I understand those problems I was just hoping someone or you might of already know of a high psi and high flow OE pump. Maybe off a 2017 Corvette or something like that lol?Unfortunately my new tank is made for a 1969 mustang. It has a sending unit that looks like this. IMG_20170322_102927509.jpg
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And is mounted in the side. I wanted to use this sending unit with an external pump. The outlet from the tank on that sending unit is 1/4 inch. Is that big enough to flow what I need? I know they make adaptors that go from that to AN so I could go to steal braided right off the tank and then right to an external inline pump? What you think? Also with an AN fitting welded into the top of the tank for my return line.
 

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So I just talked to Mike at Southeast power systems. He said that once some boost is produced that the head should flow over %100? Not sure if that is true? He also said that if you turn the VE down that low (%80) that the matchbot will tell you that we do need to go to a smaller turbo lol. But he said that there is no way that would be a good idea. What do ya think?
 
Most external inline pumps have a larger inlet size than the outlet size.
Because the pump can now be some distance from the tank they want to insure that it can draw oK.
The external pumps around 50 gph have either an 3/8" or 1/2" inlet size with an 3/8 outlet.

So No on the 1/4" tank outlet.
 
Ramian17":2cyk4b8p said:
So I just talked to Mike at Southeast power systems. He said that once some boost is produced that the head should flow over %100? Not sure if that is true? He also said that if you turn the VE down that low (%80) that the matchbot will tell you that we do need to go to a smaller turbo lol. But he said that there is no way that would be a good idea. What do ya think?
Engine VE is the ratio of air density in the cylinder at the end of the intake cycle versus the air density in the intake manifold.
Airflow by volume in the intake ports does not change just because the air density is greater.
In fact if the exhaust pressure in the exhaust manifold is a lot greater than the intake manifold pressure the VE can be less than the non-boosted VE.

However airflow by weight does change and this is where the confusion is centered around.

Anyway My VE and intercooler numbers are conservative and can be adjusted up.
After the port work and larger valves the engine can certainly make 300 ft lbs of torque at low rpm without boost, using the small 202 duration cam.
If you put those numbers in the MatchBot at zero boost the VE shows 85%.
The intercooler effectiveness can be raised to 60% which is also reasonable.
The points fall within a good range on the compressor map from 1500 rpm to 3500 rpm.

A good double check as to reality is the boosted torque and hp numbers will be less than the non-boosted (Base line) numbers multiplied by the pressure ratio. The "How much less" is mainly based on the intercooler effectiveness.
We used ice water intercoolers for slightly better that 100% effectiveness so we expected baseline times pressure ratio power results and that is what we saw with our turbo engines.

Example: if you know that a particular 300 is making 325 ft lbs of torque without boost and someone says it can make 600 with 10 lbs of boost (1.68 pressure ratio) without an intercooler, you can safely figure that it is not going to happen.
 
Thanks so much for all of your help Pmuller. You truly have schooled me into being able to somewhat understand all of this lol. That's going to be fun putting a bigger outlet in my tank but I'll make it happen. Will I need high psi for this application or will standard 40-60 psi do it? I emailed Mike Southeast power systems middle of this week and he still hasn't got back to me but I am probably just going to pull the trigger on the BW 6852. How can you make intercoolers more effective for an everyday driver? Just size?
 
You are quite welcome.

Pump Pressure: The injector flow ratings are usually based on a fuel pressure of 43.5 psi. You can use a higher pressure to increase flow if needed.
Lets say that you set the base pressure at 45 psi. For every lb of boost the pressure regulator adds a lb of fuel pressure.
If the max boost that will be used is 15 psi then the fuel pressure can be as high as 60 psi. It is good to have margin so it would be good if the max pump pressure was at least 70 psi.

The intercooler efficiency is size and the amount of air flow through it.
It should sit in front of the radiator. If you are using electric fans for the radiator, they will be controlled by the EFI system.
Normally the fans won't come on till the water temp reaches a certain temp but you can add the second condition where the fans come on anytime the intercooler air temp goes above a certain point.

I really wish you would consider installing the in-tank pump assembly I recommended.
For the sake of a second opinion I checked with my neighbor who has been doing restorations for many years. He is presently switching out an engine in a 56 Chevy to an EFI crate engine and is installing an in-tank pump. I asked him about his experience with pumps.
Long story made short, He has had too many bad experiences with external pumps and will only use in-tank pumps.
 
Huh really that's crazy about the pumps thanks for asking around. I am totally considering the in tank option I just hate the idea of having to drop the tank in the middle of the woods somewhere to put a new on in lol. Did he say what the problems with the external pumps were?
 
The failures my neighbor has seen is the external pumps just quit running.
His personal experience was during a long trip where the pump left him stranded in Reno.
The failures I have seen with inline external pumps are also with performance street cars.

The best we can figure is the failures are caused by the heat generated during operation.
The in-tank pumps that stay cool from being submerged in the gas definitely have a better life span.
The hopes would be that you wouldn't have to worry about pump failure for a long time with a submerged pump.

Just make a removable panel in the truck bed to access the pump. LOL
 
Haha that's really not a bad idea cutting the hole in my van floor to get easy access to it. I will do that for sure the first time the in tank pump goes out if I end up using that option. A guy on here and on vintage-vans.com has put a TBI megasquirt system on one of these old vans. He is using an external pump and had problems with fuel draw on Accel and decel. He installed a surge tank close the motor fed by the mechanical stock pump. Do you think a stock pump on a 300 will flow 160-200lph and then use an electric pump to boost the psi? I know the specs are hard to find on OE parts but figured it couldn't hurt to ask ya. Thanks
 
I know a stock pump will not flow that much.
I will have to address that problem myself with a 300+ hp naturally aspirated carburetor build I need to finish.

There was some discussion here about building a hybrid pump using a larger SBC diaphragm section.
 
Dangit a Frankenstein pump doesn't sound that nice either lol. So my options are hybrid mechanical pump, twin electric external pumps with a surge tank or an internal pump. The internal pump is looking better and better everyday....Dangit. I ordered the bw EFR 6258 today!!!!
 
He said that it should only take 2-3 days to assemble and then it will ship out. So hopefully be end of next week.
 
I would recommend you take pmullers advice and use an in tank fuel pump. I have built many fuel tanks using internal and external pumps. I have had many more problems with the external fuel pumps failing. The only internal pump I have had problems with was bad placement in the tank. Mounted the suction close to the side of the tank without enough baffling every time the car made a hard turn the pump would suck air and stall.
Looking at your pictures of the stock suction, sending until it would not be difficult to adapt a factory pump to it. Just drill another hole in it and add a return line. Like your project, its going to be a nice van.
 
Thanks 67straightsix yeah I'm probably going to go with what pmuller9 said and get that aeromotive 200. I'm a little confused on your using a stock pump option. I already have a return line I put in the tank so how do I go about using this stock set up? How close to the side of the tank were you? Thanks yeah I'm super excited that all this is finally happening!!!!
 
Didn't mean to confuse things, the aeromotive 200 is a very good system, I was just giving an alternative. Thinking if you wanted to stay with a stock OEM pump, you could cut the filter off the end of your existing suction line and replace it with an electric pump. If you have a return line then you don't have to worry about drilling another hole. You'll have to research a bit for GPH, but I believe a Chevy Corvette pump will work.
My placement error was in a custom built tank - If you have a stock tank and fuel pickup then as long as the the pump is at the bottom of the tank you should be fine.
 
Huh that would be nice. Probably way cheaper than the aero set up. Even though I have an unbaffled tank and sending unit designed for a carb you think putting the pump on that sending unit would be sufficient?
 
Does any one know where I can get a fuel rail for one of these things? Also where can I get those 42lbs/hr injectors? Thanks guys
 
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