car jumping in gear

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rustywagon

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Hi guys, my name is Michal, I am new here, thank you for adding me.
I have Fairlane 3.3L station wagon, rusty, not so pretty, but loved.

Previous owner neglected the car, he did zero maintenance and drove car to death.
There was always issue with rough running, but it was drivable.

Lately the car develops issue - it starts right away, it runs ok, but when I stop and car is in gear it run very rough, jumps, sometimes dies. When I step on gas it runs fine....

There's Pertronix ignition, I put new coil, spar plugs, I recently replaced Autolite 1100 with new carburetor (hoping Autolite was the issue) with manual choke. There's leak at exhaust doughnut I will be fixing tomorrow. My friend is great mechanic, knows/works on classic cars, but he doesn't know inline sixes too much, we'll be checking timing tomorrow.

Any ideas? I am starting to be frustrated....
Thank you, Michal
 
Welcome to the Ford Six Forum rustywagon! First thing to check out is the engines condistion, have you done a compression test yet? Next is to check out all the tune up settings. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Hi, X2 on the compression test and tune up. You can also warm up the engine and while it is running remove one spark plug wire to see if the cylinder is healthy. If the engine shakes and slows down the cylinder is making power. If there is no change with the plug wire off the cylinder is dead. Check them all that way.
You can check for bad spark plug wires by running it at night and there should not be any arcing among the wires. If you see arcing you need new wires.
You should have a Chilton's manual for all the settings, and get the Ford Falcon performance handbook to get the most out of your Ford 6. Good luck
 
"...a Chilton's manual for all the settings, and get the Ford Falcon 6 Cyl. Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford 6...."
2X ^^^
Haynes is OK too but an expensive ford mechanic's (by ford 4 the dealer- in house wrkers) is best. The "Handbook" is one many of us here use (available thru Matt at vintage inlines dot com ~ 20$). While waitin 4 delivery Check above "tech archive" (big blue bx w/crossed screwdriver'n wrench) esp at:

ci/Loadomatic.html

as it talks abt ur carb.

Do U have an auto transmis? Do U still have the ol carb? Have U IDed the block/head/rear gear, etc? As an owner I'd suggest U do so ("Handbook" helps) to know just what U have. That way U can get it running right (& therefore know what an upgrade would B in case U wish to go that route). Many here R into performance (ie better MPGs & pep) and we have some internationally renown experts for consultation. I hada use the resources mentioned 1st to even know the right questions to ask! Saveda lota money'n time here. (y)
So
W E L C O M E !!!
enjoy yer visit~
 
welcome michal, enjoy the insanity here, it helps if you relax.

first thing, it doesnt matter how many cylinders an engine has, nor it configuration, they all operate on the same set of principles. they all need fuel fire and compression, as well as exhaust, at the right times. it can be a modern V6, inline four, V8 inline six, or even a 28 cylinder radial aircraft engine(seven cylinder radial engines stacked four deep). i will grant that there are subtleties for each type of engine to deal with though.

but lets start with the basics, run a compression check. as you noted the previous owner didnt take care of the engine, so we need to know the health of the engine.

once that is covered and the engine is in good health, lest make sure the fuel system is delivering the proper amount of fuel. make sure the carb is clea and adjusted properly, the fuel filter has been changed, etc.

next lets go over the ignition system, get the timing set where the engine wants it to be set, this does not mean where the factory originally set it, remember they have to deal with warranties, and differing climates around th e world. often times these engines like between 10-14 degrees initial timing for best power.

one thing to remember is that you will be balancing fuel delivery and ignition timing as you move forward. so when you adjust the carb, the ignition timing may want to be changed as well.

one thing i would ask, tells us what year car you are dealing with, it does make a difference, mostly if it is a pre 68, or 68 and later vehicle.
 
Thank you all for responses.
I checked cylinders, they all work.
I am afraid, the engine is bad. There's smoke coming out of oil dipstick, plus all the other issues....
What's the cost of rebuilding, or purchasing of new/rebuild engine?
Michal
 
woah there -
"... rebuilding, or purchasing..."
are U able to do any wrk on this motor ur self?
Will U rely exclusively on ur "My friend is great mechanic, knows/works on classic cars, but he doesn't know inline sixes..."?
Is there alot of spare cash?

If U would like - there is alot of things U can ck out 1st B4 going this extreme.
If U wanna dump a motor there's guys here that would probable take it.
"Juping in gear" is usually not an engine (well...I guess motor mounts could effect)...
 
I was pulling wires out of spark plugs and got electrocuted. When I grabbed/pulled the wire at the end to pull it shocked me on 2 cylinders. I replaced the wires few months ago, is that normal thing....?
Should I replace it again?
Michal
 
Two thing you want to know abt ignition wires. Do they conduct? You can use an ohm meter to check the resistance of each wire. If any show no resistance (> 1000 ohms) that's a problem. Some wire sets are designed to reduce electrical noise from the ignition system. These are called resistance wires or noise suppression wires. Sometimes the conductor isn't making a good connection to the metal connector at the end. Check the crimp to if it is tight.
The other thing is are the wires arcing? This is easy to check by looking at the wires in the dark for arcing (blue sparks). Arcing would indicate that the insulation is failing and wire should be replaced.

GL
Terry
 
ok, I am starting with testing you guys suggested.
I did compression test today.
I am not mechanic, I build houses for living and English is my 2nd. language, so please be considerate and patient. Thank you.
I followed what I was told at tool rental place:
I disconnected the distributor/coil wire.
I checked each cylinder separately - , pulled the plug, screwed in test gauge, cranked the engine for several sec, readings on all cylinders is the same - jumping up and down from 60 - 100psi
I did not add any oil when tested.
all spar plugs looks same, little gray on tips.
Now I will check fuel pressure.
Thank you.
 
I added oil to each cylinder when testing, no change on pressure.
Only difference, there was smoke coming out of exhaust after I fired it up.
Otherwise, the car doesn't smoke, not sure if it's important.....

I found out the exhaust manifold was not tight, all bolts were loosened. There was wrong size, smaller doughnut seal at manifold/exhaust pipe, it was not sealed at all. I put correct one.

Engine seems to be running smoother and accelerate better, so far it is not jumping... could the loosened manifold and no seal throw the engine of.....
 
Hi
<I am not mechanic,
Think your going to be one! Or at least a be able to troubleshoot what you need to do.

< English is my 2nd. language, so please be considerate and patient.
Would have never known your English is very good!

< readings on all cylinders is the same - jumping up and down from 60 - 100psi
Sounds like you got a cheap gauge, better ones have a one way valve that hold the air pressure in so the needle isn't jumping up and down while you are trying to get an accurate reading. In any event the good news is that all are pretty even (abt 100psi), spark plugs seem pretty good in that there not black and crusty and your not smoking. The not so good news is overall 100 psi is kinda on the low side. It's ok as I wouldn't condemn it and say it's on it's last leg. I'm thinking a rebuilt engine would be up around 160-170psi.

<I added oil to each cylinder when testing, no change on pressure.
Only difference, there was smoke coming out of exhaust after I fired it up.
Otherwise, the car doesn't smoke, not sure if it's important.....
Yes smoking is normal if you have adding oil into the cylinders. Adding oil for this test if the rings are badly worn will cause the compression to increase during the test.

<could the loosened manifold and no seal throw the engine of.....
Generally I would say no. Just much louder! Sometimes it can cause issue with back pressure ( the pressure of the exhaust gases leaving the engine and going into exhaust pipe).

Good Luck
Terry
 
Your english is 100X better than any 2nd lang I could ever speak (& 50% better than my own english)!

"... loosened manifold and no seal throw the engine of...."
(off)
I believe that is not what the "jumping in gear" was about.

The 'pull wires test' is a good 1. Sorry he did not mention a caution & U R not as familiar w/autos. There is a set of insulated plyers for this, folks like me hafta shut down the rig B4 pulling/re-starting tho (low budget operation).

Additionally I'm going to guess U have a C4 automatic transmission?
 
all plugs 60 - 120.
I added the oil to see if it would increase the pressure, it did not.
if the piston rings are ok (assuming adding oil did not change pressure), why pressure is low... Any other factors involved?
When I got the car, my friend put in new chain, could he install wrong? would engine still run with chain off?

I did another few trips with the car today, no jumping so far...
my wife drove it, and she confirmed - better accelerations, smoother ride.

I will check timing next week, possible replace head and manifold gasket.
Anything else I should check?

My neighbor - mechanic adjusted the new carb, old school guy, specializes in classic cars.

Distributor - I have the old one with pertronix in it, should it be replaced, meaning the distributor?

Also I tried to measure gas pressure, got gauge from O relies, hooked up the gauge at the end of gas line just before it enters carb, nothing, no reading at all.... car runs, so I am not sure what I was doing wrong....

Thank for help, M
 
U sound like you R beginning to take things into your own hands.
This is good. U will B come more familiar w/ur own vehicle (expand ur consciousness) understand it, save money (& if like me - increase ur enjoyment). W/this car that can B alot of fun (no computers to get in the way/try'n figure out/buy) like newer vehicles.

Congratulations !
U may B ready for a purchase or 2. The top of the line (expensive) is the ford mechanic (Dealer) shop manual. Most ppl get the Chilton or Hanes manual (auto prts stores) specific 2 ur Y/M/M. Many of us have these (esp when new to the specific vehicle). Alot of us have "The Ford...6 Cyl Performance Handbook" by members of this site. I would suggest it as it's specific to ur vehicle & seems 2B about were U R right now in ur knowledge (avail from Matt at vintage inlines dot com - 20$ ?). Lastly, the above tech archive (@ blue box w/crossed screw driver'n wrench) is something U can peruse for free while waiting for delivery of the Handbook.

I will not speak 2 specific concerns right now (go back re-read, pick each 1, etc) but did note the fule pressure Q. If U trace the fule line back frm the carb (its metal) around the valve cover'n down - U will C it goes into a lill weird thing on the side of the motor. That is the fuel pump. It has an arm that goes into the engine to drive it (pump the gas). There is no pump in the gas tank (modern) but relies on gas in the line to pull more from the sending unit in the tank. U must put any 'fuel pressure gage' in-line after that pump (between there'n the carb). It really just measures the output of that pump.
BTW: Do Not do a head gasket at this point!

Do U have some hand tools? U don't need many & I can suggest a list if needed?

Enjoy some reading as U go along. Look into the sections of the material that apply to specific tasks U need to do. It's like havin a knowledgeable friend right there to "take care of U". Then come here for the extra....
 
I measured fuel pressure pass fuel pump, just before the gas line enters the carburetor, probably was doing something wrong....
I have shop manual, it looks more like manual for airplane, than a car....
I have tools, I did some work on the car myself - replaced rear leaf springs, wheel bearing, put new fuel pump etc.
Couldn't figured out the issue(s) with engine....
 
Oh yeah, ur 'on ur way' then. Well, there I go ass-u-me again ("when U assume U make an ass of U and me"). Well, luckly, only me this X. :|

There is a good tune up thread on here by bubba. If U can find it thru the search function or tech 'read only' ("stickies") at the index page I would recommend that. With a new carb the 'jumping in gear' & an auto transmish this could B the problem. There is also a cable frm a C4 to the carb on the i6 that is adjustable. Since things R going well right now U have time to read up on these things. When things get "jumpie" again U will B ready for action? That's my thought (carb set up, as said above), wish others would chime in here as I, like U, am not a pro mechanic.
Give that a try'n get back to us...
:beer:
 
rustywagon":2ja4dvyc said:
all plugs 60 - 120.
I added the oil to see if it would increase the pressure, it did not.
if the piston rings are ok (assuming adding oil did not change pressure), why pressure is low... Any other factors involved?
When I got the car, my friend put in new chain, could he install wrong? would engine still run with chain off?

I did another few trips with the car today, no jumping so far...
my wife drove it, and she confirmed - better accelerations, smoother ride.

I will check timing next week, possible replace head and manifold gasket.
Anything else I should check?

My neighbor - mechanic adjusted the new carb, old school guy, specializes in classic cars.

Distributor - I have the old one with pertronix in it, should it be replaced, meaning the distributor?

Also I tried to measure gas pressure, got gauge from O relies, hooked up the gauge at the end of gas line just before it enters carb, nothing, no reading at all.... car runs, so I am not sure what I was doing wrong....

Thank for help, M

It would be helpful to know the actual compression test numbers for each cylinder. However if I am understanding your above statement of 60 to 120, if one cyclinder is as low as 60 and another is at 120 this would be the problem. This is the reason why one or more have lower pressure, its likely caused by one or more valves not sealing against the valve seat since when you added oil it didn't change the results. You will need to pull the cylinder head and have a valve job done to fix that.

Yes the exhaust leaking at the manifold and donut can also be a cause of the engine not running well. It's somwhat like having vaccum leaks though it's not as serious of a problem. Yet it can have a small, effect the engines running condistion or tuning.

If your friend had installed the timing chain wrong the engine wouldn't even run so no it's probally installed right. I wouldn't be worried about the fuel pump and or the Distribitor at this point since the car runs. You can do a basic tune up (see below) to get the best out of your engine but the main problem you have is the engines compression imbalance. If all the cylinders are not within 15 % of each other (highest to lowest) then you won't be able to get the engine to run smoothly. Good luck (y) :nod:

Tune up Tips you didn't state the year of your 3.3 engine or the car but here are Some basic tuneup specs for a 200 six
1. Spark Plugs gap with your Pertonix try .045 gap to start with if your using a Ford stock coil. If you have a Pertronix coil then you can experiment with a wider gap of .050 or a little more if you want.
2. Point gap is the next to set but With your Pertonix unit you would ignore this setting.
3. Base timing is set to 6 degrees BTDC. I set them at 8 to 10 degrees to start with depending on your local conditions sometimes going up to 12 degrees. Any pinging drop back down until it stops.
4. With the engine warmed up to operating temps and the choke fully open. Set idle mixture to lean best idle. This done by setting to the highest Idle RPM and then by turning the mixture screw in a 1/4 turn (leaner). This may be what your neighbor already did.
5. Last set the Curb idle to 550 to 600 RPM for an auto trans in drive with parking brake set, this will usually be 50 to 100 RPM higher when trans is in Neutral or Park.

The order of the settings can make a differance to the final tune this is why the carb settings are the very last thing. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
U left out the "see below" bubs.
Have a link to that great full tune up (?curb idle?) post U made?
 
every each cylinder was 60 - 120, all cylinders have the same readings.
The needle was jumping 60 - 120, probably cheap gauge.
There was not any difference when I added the oil.
 
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