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timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

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takehikes
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timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #1 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:49 pm

Driving to work today running along just great like it has for four years without missing a beat. Suddenly starts backfiring and power dies, I could sort of keep it going but finally gave up. Oil pressure was good when it did this, I did see some smoke but couldn't tell color as it was dark.
Had it towed home. Plugs good and spark at each one. No sign of oil on any of them though they could stand changing.
I have a DEI style distributor and good power to it.
I pulled fuel line and have great fuel pressure when cranking.
when cranking it almost wants to g but spits fuel back up out of the carb. I suspect timing is the issue but how could it happen in an instant (distributor is bolted down tight, didnt appear to have moved).
Timing gears (supposedly were replaced by the PO).
I did find one vacuum port on the carb with nothing on it and it looked like maybe a cap fell off so I plugged it, no change (vacuum is port closest to engine facing forward)....I need a vacuum schematic if anyone has one).

Suggestions? Helllllppppp! :bang: :bang:

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MechRick
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Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #2 by MechRick » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:08 pm

If it spits fuel up out of the carb while cranking, it's most likely cam timing.

To prove it, turn the balancer until the timing mark lines up at the 0 degree mark, pull the cap, the rotor should point at number 1 or number 6 (or slightly before). Since the distributor is driven by the cam, if cam timing is off the distributor will be also.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

takehikes
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #3 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:20 pm

got it to zero on timing mark, pull cap and it was pointing at 6. I did find the rotor was loose, tightened that up but still same issue. Crank And fuel pukes up out of carb. Almost starts then almost wont crank. I'm real fearful its timing gears. any way to know for sure before you tear it down?

pmuller9
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #4 by pmuller9 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:51 pm

takehikes wrote:I'm real fearful its timing gears. any way to know for sure before you tear it down?

As MechRick pointed out if the ignition timing is correct then the camshaft timing should also be good.
Use a timing light on #1 plug wire to see if the ignition timing is still 10* BTDC while the engine is cranking.

The spitting out the carb could still be a valvetrain related problem.
Pull the valve cover and check valve motion.

takehikes
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #5 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:15 pm

Pulled distributor cap and watched rotor as I turned crank.
One big spot where crank is moving and rotor does not at all.
Now I'm thinking perhaps distributor gear or timing gears.
Whats most likely?
Distributor is a low buck DEI piece but its worked perfect for four years and is not loose at all.

takehikes
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #6 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:47 pm

just pulled distributor, gear looks good as does oil pump shaft. turns freely no binding.
I really dont want to pull the front off the engine until I am absolutely sure its timing gears. Any for sure way to know?

pmuller9
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:52 pm

If there is a spot where the crank is turning and the cam is not then the timing gears have teeth missing.

takehikes
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #8 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:54 pm

My thought exactly.
And unfortunately! :evil: :bang:

What is odd is I was flying along the road and all was well then it went off of song and started puking through carb and that was it. I guess if a tooth or two let go tahts all it would take. Previous owner claimed that the gears had been changed but I'm thinking I may find a fiber gear in there.

pmuller9
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:06 pm

Metal gears usually don't strip with street cams so I suspect a fiber gear also.
If it is the timing gears you will need to clean out the oil pan.

takehikes
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #10 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:08 pm

Pan needs a new gasket so looks like I'll be doing that and the timing gears for thanksgiving.
Oh freaking joy!

takehikes
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Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #11 by takehikes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:14 pm

I can get aluminum/steel gear set at summit.
Is the one piece pan gasket the one for the 300?
need some guidance gears and gaskets. Want to order so I can have wednesday.....

pmuller9
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Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #12 by pmuller9 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:27 pm

The one piece pan gasket is for the later 4.9s
The bolt holes in your oil pan should be dimpled forming a lip to hold the gasket in place?
If so then you need the multi piece gasket

Have you determined for sure that the timing gears are bad?

Is the crankshaft bolt for the harmonic balancer tight? It should be torqued to 140 ft lbs.
If it is loose it is possible for the timing gear to shear the end of the key off and spin.

takehikes
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: timing issue on 240 or??/ Helllpppp!

Post #13 by takehikes » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:49 pm

:bang: got it apart.
Found far too late that a tooth was half gone Nd others very worn on camshaft.
Need new cam. Going to buy a rebuild.

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