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Street 300 L6 Motor

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pmuller9
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #201 by pmuller9 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Looking good so far!

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old28racer
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #202 by old28racer » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:18 am

FTF & pmuller9 ---- thanks for the shoulder reminder. I had to go out to the garage to check just to make sure. With a clean up cut on the head face the new CC should be in the 66cc range and that will place CR at about 9.18. This should work fine for a Prem Pump Gas street motor.
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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #203 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:56 am

Sounds good to me.
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old28racer
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #204 by old28racer » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:30 pm

Got a push rod question?

I would like to run "Smith Bros" 5/16", .083 wall, Heat Treated Chrommoly Steel push rods that they have as shelf units. They are available in .050" increments.

Example only 111111

If you measure for new push rods and it says you need 11.370" long units.

If you get one that is 11.400" it will be .030" longer than you need.
If you get one that is 11.350" it will be .020" shorter than you need.

My question is does it really matter if it is +.030" or -.020" ?
Or does the push rod need to be the exact length measured ?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #205 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:41 pm

You're using screw-in studs with adjustable rocker lock nuts. As long as the contact pattern on the tip of the valve is reasonable I do not think .020 or .030 difference from optimum length will make any noticeable / measurable difference.
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old28racer
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #206 by old28racer » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:36 pm

FTF -- Thanks for the reply. That was my feeling exactly. I used there shelf push rods in my BBC injected altered for two seasons with no problems. When I setup the rocker center on the valve tip I will go for the shelf unit that is the closest to the measured length.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #207 by old28racer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:50 pm

I have been working on my 1971 F250 for the last 3 months and just started getting back to the street 300 motor I'm building in the shop (garage). My F250 has a 300 inline 6 with a C4 trans. Just picked the truck up 4 months ago.

Back on the 300 street motor I wanted to go through my valve spring setup again. I will be running a RV hydraulic cam with .449 Intake / .475 Exhaust lift with 1.6 rockers. I have a set of Comp 903 & set of Melling 850 springs both new. I tested both springs at #85 & 115# seat pressure. I was surprised to see that the 850 installed length at 85# was 1.768" & 903 was 1,678". At 115# the 805 was 1.635" & 903 was 1.562". I retested both springs to make sure & number are correct. I really thought the 903 springs would be a bit stiffer than the 850 replacement springs.

As I am not sure if I will run 1.6 BBF or 1.75 BBC rockers with the RV cam I wanted to check both springs for coil bind. The 903 springs are good for coil bind clearance when mounted at 85# & 95# seat pressure and the 850 springs are good when mounted at 85#/95#/105#/115# seat pressure. all readings are with 1.75 rockers. The 850 springs with 115# seat pressure have coil bind clearance at or better than .066".

Is 85# seat pressure OK for this Hydraulic RV cam with the 1.6 or 1.75 roller rockers and the 1.84/1.60 SBC .100 longer valves? Head is a 240, screw in 7/16 studs, motor is a 9.0 CR?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #208 by 54-4x4 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:47 pm

old28racer,I like your build and are following it closely.I have some of the same parts you are using in my stash,need to get some more pieces together.I now have an engine completely dismantled and ready to have some machining done when I can get to the city.
I see you have a spacer under your carb.Does this help the flow?

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #209 by old28racer » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:57 pm

54-4x4 --- Thanks for the good word on my 300 street motor build. I just pick up a 1971 F250 a few months back and have been spending most of my time working on it, hope to get back to the 300 street motor in a month or so. My F250 has a 300 inline 6 also. Fresh rebuild with 950 miles on it. Mostly stock with a hogged out OEM intake, Holly 350 2v carb, dual 3" exhaust & headers.

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A couple of pictures of my fresh 240 head with screw in studs, new sbc 1.84/1.60 valves & new oil seals. Ready to bolt on when I get back to the 300 build.

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As for the carb spacer, running a 1"-2" spacer does help flow a little, but I am running it to raise the carb up off the intake so the accel pump rod has a bit more clearance as it is real close to the carb stud. This is an Edlebrook DP intake, you may not need one with other intakes.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #210 by 54-4x4 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:18 pm

Nice pickup you have there.A friend has a couple on his farm with 240s in them.He said I can have the engines if I want them.I will have to wait 'till Spring .
It would be nice to see a picture of your head with the roller rocker bolted on.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #211 by old28racer » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:33 pm

54-4x4 --- I don't have the longer push rods I need yet but I may be able to set roller rocker on one with my push rod length checker & a soft test spring. My 1.84 / 1.60 SBC valves are 4.910 long and take a push rod that is about .040" longer than stock. I'll see what I can do in the next few days. I would suggest steel roller rockers for a street motor, I am using 1.7 ratio aluminum roller rockers because I had a new set left from my BBC drag racing.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #212 by old28racer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:18 pm

54-4x4 --- Well I shot a couple pictures of the roller lifters on #1 cylinder with my home made push rod length checker & soft checking springs in place. You should get the idea how it all fits together. I need to order hardened 5/16" chrome moly push rods to work with the 4.910" SBC valves & my BBC 1.75 roller rockers. They will be about .040 longer than stock. I will post the exact length when I get them in a month or so.

One item to keep in mind is that most of the time when you go to screw in studs and roller rockers with Polylocks you will need to run a taller valve cover or an aluminum spacer between the cover and the block. The Clifford Aluminum Valve Cover that I have is 4 7/8" inside for good clearance. This is an old unit they don't make any more and they go for $150-250 if you can find one. Depending how much you mill off rocker stud boss you may be able to run a stock valve cover with a small spacer or take two stock covers, cut & weld up a 5" high unit for a ton less money.

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Good Building :beer:
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #213 by pmuller9 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:25 pm

old28racer

How much did you mill off the top of the rocker stud bosses?
The rockers sit nice and low on the studs.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #214 by old28racer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:50 pm

pmuller9 --- I do not have the setup exactly like it will be but to answer your question we milled .090" of the bosses & will have about .035" clearance between the bottom of the rocker and top of the stud hex nut. The Crane Aluminum Rockers are large slot racing units.

As I have said before I am only using aluminum rockers because I had some left from my race stuff. I still am not sure I will go this way. I would like to have steel roller rockers but $350 + for this motor is a bit to much.

I was looking at a set of Elgin SSR-888RS 1.6 ratio BBF steel roller rocker that are $194 for set 16 with polylocks. Is the fulcrum length on the BBF 1.6 they list the same as the 1.65" fulcrum length on a BBC roller rocker. They look like nice units for a low use / lightly worked street motor.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #215 by pmuller9 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:43 pm

The standard BBF roller rockers have the same 1.65" length as the BBC.
When you get the Elgin rockers measure the length before installation just to be sure they are correct.

Just know that there are aftermarket heads that require different length rockers.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #216 by old28racer » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:33 pm

pmuller9 --- Thanks for the reply on the elgin roller rockers. I will check them when they arrive. These will be for the 240 head I will run.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #217 by old28racer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:20 am

pmuller9 & others --- I am getting ready to take some final new push rod lengths on the street motor.

A few bits of information on the Cam, Valves, Roller Rockers. Valves are SBC 1.84 Intake X 1.60 Exhaust. Valves are 4.910" long, Roller Rockers are BBC 1.75 ratio. Head has 7/16" screw in rocker studs with poly lock nuts. Cam is a standard RV grind with the following spec's.

Dur @ .050 ------- Intake 204 ---- Exhaust 214
Cam Lift ---------- Intake 280 ---- Exhaust 295
Valve Lift --------- Intake 449 ---- Exhaust 475
Lobe Sep ---------- Intake 106 ---- Exhaust 114

I will post a picture in the morning of my 240 head with soft springs for checking valve/rocker geometery, roller rockers, comp cam valve length checker in place. I am using a solid lifter that is the same length inside as a hydraulic lifter that is pre loaded. Do I take my new push rod length with the lifter off the lobe on the cam back side or on the lobe top full open? Because I have ajustable rocker do I have to add or subtract from my measurement?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #218 by pmuller9 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:39 am

old28racer wrote: Do I take my new push rod length with the lifter off the lobe on the cam back side or on the lobe top full open?


Neither. You take the measuement with the valve at half lift.
I'm assuming the adjustable pushrod and the 1.75 ratio BBC rockers are the ones shown in the above picture in post #212

Check the intake valve lift with a dial indicator. Let's say you get .490". Half lift will be .245"
Now turn your crank until the intake valve lift is .245"
At that point you want a pushrod lenght that makes a line drawn through the center of the tip roller and the trunion center 90 degrees with the valve stem.

Image

The final check is where you remove the rocker and blacken the top of the valve tip with a marker.
Install the rocker and run the crank and cam around a few turns.
Remove the rocker and the pattern on top of the tip should be narrow and centered.

Image

Do all remaining intake and exhaust valves and record the results and post them here.
If the results are within .050" then take an average length to use on all valves.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #219 by Fordman75 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:42 am

old28racer wrote:I would like to have steel roller rockers but $350 + for this motor is a bit to much.


I wish that's what mine cost!! I think my BBF SS Crower ones were like $550 for the set! :oops:
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #220 by old28racer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:33 pm

Fordman75 --- Ted, Comp Cam has a BBC Roller Rocker set of 12 #1826-12 that is 1.6 ratio with the same fulcrum length as the BBF, they are 7/16 stud, steel, full roller. Summit price is $343.99. I am going to try a set of Elgin #SSR-888RS that are full steel rollers for BBF at 1.6 ratio that will fit my 300 4.9L and list for $194, look like a good mid range roller rocker between the Comp roller & a stamp steel rocker.

pmuller9 -- Paul, thanks for the very detailed procedure on rocker setup and push rod length measurement. Yes I do have a comp 7706-1 9.800-10.800 push rod checker. My Crane BBC aluminum rockers do not have a push rod holding nut & they are setup to run ball end push rods just like stock 300 units. As I only have one checker & two sets soft springs it will it may take me few days to get this all done. I will post all findings for others to see and thanks again as I am sure all the information you provided will help other on this site.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #221 by old28racer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:13 pm

pmuller9 -- Paul, had some time today to get started on my 240 head & pushrods. Before I got into the pushrod lengths I wanted to check RV cam lift to make sure it is what the grind sheet listed. It calls out 280 Intake & 295 Exhaust. I checked all 12 lobes with a dial indicator and only found a couple off a couple off .001-.002". Then I checked the number 1 Int & Exh roller rockers that are BBC 1.75 ratio. On paper if you take 280 & 295 x 1.75 the valve lift should be 490 & 516. In real life with my pushrod checker set at 10.412" and the rollers centered on the valve stem the valve lift with a dial indicator was 543 on the Intake and 583 on the Exhaust. Why would the actual lift be that much higher than the lift on paper?


I enclosed two pictures of my testing setup. The 10.412" pushrod length is just a first time shot. It did place the roller in the center of the #1 In/Ex valve stem and I was able to get a line centered pretty good. It is real hard to get a good line when I only have the vary soft test springs, they do not push the valve stem up against the roller very hard. I did get a nice mark on the #1 exhaust valve. Going to spend a little time checking things before final measurements.

Image
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #222 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:47 pm

I see you have a line drawn on the side of the rocker arm.
At .250" VALVE LIFT did the line look like it was 90 degrees with the valve stem?

The pattern on the top of the valve tips looks like it is towards the outside which would indicate that the pushrod checker is too long.
Maybe you could use white shoe polish on the rocker roller tip with black marker on the valve tip to get better resolution.
I was expecting a pushrod length closer to 10.2"

Using calipers measure straight accross between the top of the valve stem and the rocker stud and add 1/2 the valve stem diameter and 1/2 the stud diameter and see how close it is to the fulcrum length of the rocker arm.

Measure the fulcrum length of the rocker and see how close it is to 1.65"
Then do the best you can to measure from the center of the trunnion to the center of the pushrod cup and see how close to 1.75 the ratio is.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #223 by old28racer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:05 pm

pmuller9 --- Paul, thanks for the reply, in the AM I will recheck all the points you pointed out. One question, when checking the line being 90 degrees to the valve stem I was using .500 open, should it be .250 open?

I have in my notes that you used 10.290" pushrods with .100 long SBC valves with 1.6 roller rockers, could have got this wrong?
With my 0.100 long SBC valves & 1.75 BBC rockers the 10.412" pushrod checker length looked very close to the roller ball being centered on the valve stem and the line being close to 90 degrees to the valve stem. I thought with longer rockers at 1.75 that my pushrod would be a bit more than 10.290.

I will start fresh and see what I come up with tomarrow. Tom
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #224 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:17 pm

Yes 90 degrees at .250" valve lift.

The rocker ratio shouldn't change the pushrod length because when the rocker is 90* with the valve stem, it is the valve stem height that determines how high the rocker is.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #225 by old28racer » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:35 am

pmuller9 --- Well Paul I spent a few hours checking most all the stuff that was in the information you gave me. Was able to make sure the fulcrum length on the BBC 1.75 ratio was 1.65, it is.

I am not sure on the 1.75 ratio check? On your rocker/ push rod picture your green line runs from the center of the roller shaft to the center of the push rod cap. To check rocker ratio I would measure from the center of the Trunnion (big shaft) to the center of the push rod cap and this should be 1.75 for my BBC rockers, is this correct? I have measured from center of front roller to push rod cap was 2.620 & from centure of the big shaft (trunnion) to the push rod cap 0.975. Sorry for being a slow learner :bang:

In this picture shot today the rocker is at the lowest point on the screw in and it has free movement through the total valve lift. The rocker is nutral on the base circule and it takes a push rod length of 10.350". The only time my line on rocker is close to 90 degrees is when it is at full lift. When I look at the front roller on the stem at full lift it is towards the outside edge showing the pushrod is to long.

Are the stud bosses to high, I am thinking that the machine shop only milled the original bosses to get a nice pad to fit the 7/16 stud hex and did not mill the additional .090" that I wanted to lower them. If my rockers were lower & could use shorter pushrods this would help my front roller centering, but it would make my 90 degree line harder to reach.

I rechecked the cam lift and all lobes were with in .002 of the grind sheet.

This thread is a learning process for me and others that may read it. I know you have tons of work going on the new heads so please reply only if you have a few minutes of free time. Thanks for all the information.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #226 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:02 am

If from the center of the roller tip to the center of the pivot shaft (trunnion) is 1.65" and from the trunnion center to the center of the pushrod cup is 0.975" then 1.65 divided by 0.975 is a 1.70 ratio rocker arm.

This is important: Please measure the inside distance between the valve stem tip and straight across to the rocker stud and post the measurement here.
Then add 1/2 the valve stem width and 1/2 the stud width.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #227 by old28racer » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:52 pm

pmuller9
Well Paul I got some more information & measurements done for you to look at.
First I rechecked the cam lift measurements and they were all within .001-.003 of the grind sheet lift spec’s.

Second I measured from top of the seated valve stem down to the valve spring seat on the head, it is 1.965”.

Third I took an inside micrometer and measured between the valve stem and stud on all 12 pairs to make sure they were the same & parallel. They were fine.

Forth I re-measured my rockers. From the trunnion to roller is 1.65” & from trunnion to push rod cup is .94”. 1.65” / .94” = 1.755 ratio, as it should be.

Fifth I worked on the fulcrum distance on the head. Measured between valve stem and the rocker stud, the stem thickness & stud thickness.
1.186, .334, .434 measurement come out to 1.186 + .172 + .217 = 1.575
1.185, .342, .438 measurement come out to 1.185 + .171 + .219 = 1.575
1.193, .172, .219 measurement comes out to 1.193 + .172 + .219 = 1.584
1.575 is .075 short and 1.584 is .066 short on the 1.65 they should be.

Could the centers of the original guide and stud holes been off this much as they used stamp steel rockers and they are way more forgiving that roller rockers? Thanks Tom
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #228 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 pm

Most Excellent Work!
Thanks for taking the time to do this tedious measuring. It really gives a much better understanding of the fine workings of the valve train.

Let's look at what's happening at .500" valve lift.
If the 1.65" rocker length is at 90 degrees with the valve stem when the valve is at 1/2 lift (.250" valve lift),
when the roller tip swings .250" up and .250" down from 90 degrees for a full .500" valve lift the roller travels .020" across the valve tip.
If you want that .020" of travel centered on the valve tip then the roller must travel .020"/2 or .010" from the valve tip center in both directions.

That means the valve tip center must be .010" less than the rocker 1.65" length or 1.640" from the rocker pivot point which is the center of the rocker stud.
You measured 1.575" from the valve tip center to the center of the stud so the valve stem to stud distance needs to be 1.640" - 1.575" or .065" greater distance for .500" valve lift.

We can correct this distance error by moving the rocker pivot point down a little which pulls the roller tip back towards the rocker stud.
This is done with a slightly shorter pushrod.

Run the rocker all the way down on the stud and see what the pattern on the valve tip looks like.
You said that the pushrod was 10.350" at that point. You may be OK.

Just for fun if you want to look at this from another angle (pun intended) if you could change the rocker length?
Since the valve tip center to pivot point distance is 1.575" and there is .020" rocker tip travel at .500" valve lift,
the ideal rocker length would be 1.575" + .020"/2 or 1.585"

Changing the subject:
Would you please measure from the bottom of the valve spring retainer to the valve spring seat on the head to see what the installed spring height is.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #229 by old28racer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:20 am

pmuller9 -- Thanks again for walking me through this valve train situation. I sent you a PM unrelated to this valve train project.

As for the information sent I will go over it a few times to get my head around it. I will get you the installed spring height in the morning.

Just off top of my head with the rocker sitting on the very bottom of the screw in stud they still have full operating movement with a 10.350 push rod length, but there is no ajustment to set the 3/4 turn on the polylock nut to set the hydraulic lifter preload. Do I have to add .010-.050" to the pushrod length to cover this issue?

Overall as this is just a very mild street motor would it work out OK if I ran a set of 1.6 ratio stamp steel rockers for 7/16 stud. Not sure if they are even avalible?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #230 by pmuller9 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:33 am

Thank you for the PM. It is much appreciated.
I found an error in my calculations so I had to redo the previous post.

If the solid lifters are the same height as the hydraulic lifters when the plunger is clear to the top and touching the retaining clip then you would have to add the preload to the pushrod length.

The stamped steel rocker would be ok but I'm not seeing any for a 7/16 stud.

For now drop the rockers down on the studs with a 10.350" pushrod length just to see if the pattern on the valve tip moves to the center and we can go from there.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #231 by old28racer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:33 pm

pmuller9 --- Checked a few more things. As I do not have a new or old set of hydraulic lifters I measured the solid lifter from the top edge to the bottom center of the push rod pocket and it was .400". I do not know how this compares to a hydraulic lifter.

I measured the installed height from the bottom of the retainer to the spring seat on the 240 head and it was 1.733". To get this installed height with a #100 seat pressure I will have to add two (.060") shims under my new Comp 903 springs, they will fit the bottom step and still keep spring bottom in place.

Found some 1.7, 1.72, 1.75 BBC stamp steel rockers on the net for 7/16 studs but no 1.6 ratio stamp steel rockers in 7/16 stud. Maybe I will pickup a set of high quality 1.6 stamp steel rockers for 3/8 stud and a set of ARP 3/8 x 7/16 screw in studs or would you just go with a BBC 1.7 unit?

As I am using real light springs from hardware store when testing the rockers and I don't want to mess up my push rod length checker they will not put enough pressure on the roller to make the centering pattern on the valve stem. Will try to get some bigger ones in couple of days.

Thanks Tom
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #232 by pmuller9 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:16 am

The Crower hydraulic lifter I have here is 2.00" long and the bottom of the pushrod cup is .300" from the top edge.
If you figure a .050" preload then the bottom of the pushrod cup will be .350" down form the top.

In order to get the Comp 903 spring to a 100# seat pressure the installed height will be 1.63"
The coil bind on a 903 spring is 1.125" so you dont want to compress the spring past 1.20"
That only allows a .430" valve lift.

If you use a Crane 96803 spring it will give you a 97# seat pressure at a 1.733" installed height so no shims needed and the spring can be depressed to 1.100"

Don't look for another rocker arm till you check the rockers you have for valve tip pattern with the 10.350" pushrod length.
Try using black marker in the valve tip and white shoe polish on the roller tip just like you used to put white shoe polish on your wheelie bar rollers to get the contact pattern on the track.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #233 by old28racer » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:22 pm

pmuller9 -- I will not do anything on the rockers until I double up the test springs or get some thicker ones and coat stem black & roller white. May be a few days.

My solid lifter is also 2" long with .400 from the pushrod cup in bottom to the top wall. If your hydraulic lifter is 2" long with .300 from the pushrod cup in the bottom to the top wall, I should be able to take .050" off my pushrod length and still have .050" preload. This is all for later, will not be ordering any pushrods until we I (we) get this valve train problem worked out.

If I go with Crane 96803 springs with 97# seat & 1.733 installed height, my lift with 1.75 BBC roller rockers works out to Intake lift of .490" and Exhaust lift of .516". 1.733" - .490" = 1.243 with .143" coil bind clearance and 1.733" - .516" = 1.217" coil bind clearance. What would the full open lift pressure be on the intake & exhaust? Yes I can see how the Comp 903 springs will not work unless I go to 1.6 rockers and then I would have go to ARP 3/8 x 7/16 screw in studs.

Ya, the old shoe polish on the wheelie bar trick. As a change of pace don't know if I sent you any pictures of the last front motor drag race rides, Dragster ran a 498" blowen/alcohol with a glide & altered ran 504" alcohol injected with a glide. Off their index the dragster ran best of 7.03 @ 197 and the altered ran best of 8.14 @ 162. Lots of fun as wife & myself ran both. The one with the dragster is my wife Dixie at Bakersfield.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #234 by pmuller9 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:23 pm

old28racer wrote:If I go with Crane 96803 springs with 97# seat & 1.733 installed height, my lift with 1.75 BBC roller rockers works out to Intake lift of .490" and Exhaust lift of .516". 1.733" - .490" = 1.243 with .143" coil bind clearance and 1.733" - .516" = 1.217" coil bind clearance. What would the full open lift pressure be on the intake & exhaust?


Full open pressure on the intake is about 259 and about 267 on the exhaust.

You have sent those pics to me before but I don't mind seeing them again.
I think that it is soo cool to have a husband and wife team where the wife gets to drive.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #235 by old28racer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:50 pm

With her reaction times light years better than mine there was no way she was not going to get in the seat. When both drive it sure makes the ups and downs of racing a lot easer.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #236 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:21 pm

old28racer,
What are the straw-like buildings in the background of the rail? Never seen such a thing. Hay self-storage?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #237 by Max_Effort » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:20 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Yes 90 degrees at .250" valve lift.

The rocker ratio shouldn't change the pushrod length because when the rocker is 90* with the valve stem, it is the valve stem height that determines how high the rocker is.


Scott Foxwell made this video a few years ago. It explains what pmuller9 is describing. Sometimes a video can be very helpful.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o5is9BsH5OU

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #238 by 54-4x4 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:51 pm

Exellent video,that makes things clear and simple.Thanks for posting

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #239 by old28racer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:40 pm

Well I worked on some measurements again today. First item is the race aluminum roller rockers I am using, they are not stock BBC 1.7 ratio roller rockers, but are a set of 1.8 ratio I had made for my BBC altered roadster. When you plug in the numbers with my RV cam lift Int 280 & Exh 295 X 1.8 You come out with 504 & 531valve lift on paper. On the motor with a dial indicator it works out to 498 & 569 valve lift. That is .006 & .038 difference. Is that common in real life on roller lifters & RV cams?

I installed an old set of valve springs to test the roller rocker ball location on the valve stems, the pattern in the picture is not real good but it shows that the 10.313" long push rod length will work and that the roller is just a bit to the outside. Think I can live with this.

If pmuller9 hydraulic lifter have a .300 deep cup & my solid lifter has a .400 deep cup my current push rod length is .100" long, 10.313" - .100" = 10.213" + .050 for preload = 10.263". This is the shortest pushrod I can run with the roller rocker at the bottom of the screw in stud. As the Smith Brothers shelf pushrods come in .050 increments I will order 10.300" long pushrods.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #240 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:32 pm

old28racer wrote: When you plug in the numbers with my RV cam lift Int 280 & Exh 295 X 1.8 You come out with 504 & 531valve lift on paper. On the motor with a dial indicator it works out to 498 & 569 valve lift. That is .006 & .038 difference. Is that common in real life on roller lifters & RV cams?


If the angle between the pushrod and the line from the fulcrum center to the pushrod cup center is less than 90 degrees before valve lift then the angle of rocker arm rotation will be more than expected as the pushrod rotates the rocker.

On this head since the pushrod, the rocker stud and the valve stem are parallel and the valve stem to stud center is 1.575", the ideal rocker arm would be 1.600" long and the tip roller center, the fulcrum center and the pushrod cup center would be on the same line.

Very nice work!
Do you have the hydraulic lifters?

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #241 by old28racer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:56 pm

Thanks as always for the additional information, I do not have the new hydraulic lifters, was going to wait until I had all the measurements done, but now that I know what your Crane units are I will order a set that will be 2" long & .300" top edge to bottom of pushrod cup.

As I don't want to spend $350 + on a set of Comp steel high performance roller rockers and I can not find any stamp steel BBC or BBF 1.6 ratio rockers in 7/16 stud I think I may try a set of Elgin SSR-888RS 7/16 1.6 steel roller rockers. They are for BBF with extra large trunnion needle bearings & .700 max lift. They run $194 a set of 16.

The 1.6 ratio will put my intake valve lift back to .449 & exh lift back to .475. With this change I should be able to run my new Comp 903 springs that I already have.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #242 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:24 pm

Sounds like a good plan.
You will like the 1.6 ratio rockers much better.
The hydraulic lifters I have sitting here are Crower but still should be the same as the Crane or any of the other hydraulic lifters.

You realize that once you get the Elgin rocker arms and the Crane hydraulic lifters that you get to start all over again measuring for pushrod lenght. :D

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #243 by old28racer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:50 pm

I also think I will like the Elgin rocker better than my 1.8 BBC units, Elgins are steel and stock 1.6 ratio, should work out better for a reliable street motor.

As for measuring everything again I love doing it just to see were the final product is. I only have a single garage to work in and this 300 build and playing with my 1971 F250 300 are my only projects. I'm am retired and have lots of free time, "not a lot of money, just lot of free time". :beer:
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #244 by old28racer » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:02 am

Just though I would add this to my build. As pmuller9 said if my valve stem to stud center is 1.575" a 1.6 rocker would work best. I was able to find a stamp steel 1.6 7/16 BBF rocker today. Elgin 410888 are for BBF 351C/429/460. I may pickup a set to get my built running and try the SSR-888RS Elgin later. This would be a nice low cost setup for a mild street motor like mine with a RV cam.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #245 by guhfluh » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:12 pm

old28racer wrote:Thanks as always for the additional information, I do not have the new hydraulic lifters, was going to wait until I had all the measurements done, but now that I know what your Crane units are I will order a set that will be 2" long & .300" top edge to bottom of pushrod cup.

As I don't want to spend $350 + on a set of Comp steel high performance roller rockers and I can not find any stamp steel BBC or BBF 1.6 ratio rockers in 7/16 stud I think I may try a set of Elgin SSR-888RS 7/16 1.6 steel roller rockers. They are for BBF with extra large trunnion needle bearings & .700 max lift. They run $194 a set of 16.

The 1.6 ratio will put my intake valve lift back to .449 & exh lift back to .475. With this change I should be able to run my new Comp 903 springs that I already have.
Check Comp or Crower. They just had some BBC rockers on clearance for real cheap. Steel I believe.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #246 by old28racer » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:08 pm

guhfluh -- Thanks for the heads up on the Crower roller rockers. Great clearance price. They are steel 1.6 ratio BBC roller rockers. Real nice units and at $185 for 12 is a great price.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #247 by pmuller9 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:57 pm

Second from the bottom of this page. Nice Price!!
https://www.crower.com/rocker-arms.html ... r=name&p=7

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #248 by old28racer » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:32 pm

pmuller9 -- Paul, thanks for the site, I had looked at their clearance sale on some 1.6 7/16 BBC roller rockers. At this point I am going to order a set of the Elgin 410888 stamp steel BBF 1.6 rockers just to get what I need to get it running. May add some performance parts later.

A question on the hydraulic lifters. When testing the valve train setup can I test the pre load length with the lifter dry? If I run them down .050" then remove pushrod the cup will come back to contact with the clip? I have always used solid & roller lifters and know little of the hydraulic lifter operation. This is just to get my pushrod length correct so they can be ordered.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #249 by pmuller9 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:11 am

old28racer wrote: At this point I am going to order a set of the Elgin 410888 stamp steel BBF 1.6 rockers just to get what I need to get it running.

The Elgin 410888 are pedestal mount rockers and will not work on your head.

old28racer wrote:A question on the hydraulic lifters. When testing the valve train setup can I test the pre load length with the lifter dry? If I run them down .050" then remove pushrod the cup will come back to contact with the clip? I have always used solid & roller lifters and know little of the hydraulic lifter operation. This is just to get my pushrod length correct so they can be ordered.

Yes you can run them dry. There is a spring under the lifter plunger that will push it back up to the retaining clip.

old28racer wrote: As pmuller9 said if my valve stem to stud center is 1.575" a 1.6 rocker would work best.

That's not quite what I said. I stated that a 1.600" long rocker would be ideal meaning that the 1.650" long BBC and BBF rockers are a tad too long.
However I do prefer the 1.6 ratio rocker arm on an aftermarket flat tappet cam.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #250 by old28racer » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:44 pm

muller9 -- Ya Paul the add for the 410888 rockers does say they are pedestal mount & lists 7/16 stud as well. Would be nice if they made the ad a bit clearer :bang: . So as it stands I can get the Crower BBC 1.6 for $185 set of 12 if they still have them at that clearance price, if not I will try the Elgin SSR-888RS steel 1.6 roller rockers at $194 set of 12.

Ordered a set of crane hydraulic lifter from Summit today. Thanks for the information on the hydraulic lifter operation, I just did not want to mess one up trying to get my pushrod length correct with the .050" preload.
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