Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

1963 170 hesitation issues

Moderator: Mod Squad

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #1 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:38 pm

Background: purchased this car about 2 months ago and was told the engine was redone about a year ago. What exactly "redone" completely entails I am unsure of. It was very sluggish from the start. But when stepped on would accelerate nicely. Problem is I still have acceleration issues unless the timing is set at about 30* BTDC. Question is, would it be possible that the previous owner didn't mill the head and I have a low compression ratio or that the cam gear is one tooth off? I have played and played with the timing and anywhere near factory specs just results in a lot of off the line hesitation.

Work I've done:
-rebuilt and adjusted autolite 1100 to specs given by Mikes Carbs
- new ignition system:points, condenser, wires, plugs, new accel ignition coil
- new vacuum diaphragm on Load O Matic
- I've pulled distributor to check for shaft wobble and make sure it was stabbed pointing at #1 on TDC, balancer lined up on TDC
- I have also lashed all valves to spec
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

ags290
Registered User
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:09 pm
Location: Mansfield Texas

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #2 by ags290 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:18 pm

Creechn32,

Have you verified that the TDC mark on the harmonic balancer is accurate and has not spun? That would be where I would start. Have you tried to time the engine by vacuum?

Kevin
Kevin
Early 1965 Mustang with a 170

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #3 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:52 pm

Kevin,

I have not timed with vacuum but the timing mark did line up with the TDC mark when I found top dead center to pull the distributor and checked for shaft wobble.
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #4 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:10 pm

I just double checked and TDC does line up where it is supposed to.
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'63 170 hesitation issue

Post #5 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:28 pm

any X I C 1 of these (falcon motor) - the 1st thing I do is ck 2 C if it has a LOM / SCV mismatch.
So many che**y guys get their hands on'em...
:nono:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #6 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:57 pm

It does have an SCV equipped Autolite 1100 matched to the LOM distributor. I can even watch the spark advance as much as possible while using the timing light and accelerating...
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #7 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:05 pm

OK, good,
nxt thing - I wuz thinkin like Kev, a slipped HB.

Some times pic help (at least it gives a chance).

"...factory specs..."
add 5* beyond factry. I think guys R finding total = 24 to 34, 36...

Is it an auto?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #8 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:19 pm

chad wrote:OK, good,
nxt thing - I wuz thinkin like Kev, a slipped HB.

Some times pic help (at least it gives a chance).

"...factory specs..."
add 5* beyond factry. I think guys R finding total = 24 to 34, 36...

Is it an auto?



It is an automatic. what kind of pics would be helpful?
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #9 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 pm

Creechn32 wrote:It is an automatic. what kind of pics would be helpful?

Any - I wuz just stallin for time while I thought :twisted: But sometimes we see sumpin way off...

Total, all in timing should B up where I posted.

Guy ona current thread here is a lill off due to his auto transmis.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #10 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:08 pm

chad wrote:
Creechn32 wrote:It is an automatic. what kind of pics would be helpful?

Any - I wuz just stallin for time while I thought :twisted: But sometimes we see sumpin way off...

Total, all in timing should B up where I posted.

Guy ona current thread here is a lill off due to his auto transmis.




I will see about getting pictures during the daytime.
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'rebuilt' '63 170 hesitation - C4 problems? less than 34* total timing?

Post #11 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:16 pm

chad wrote:Some times pic help (at least it gives a chance

to think of other things)
:roll:
:lol:
I lub me some pic!
Last edited by chad on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Creechn32 wrote:I just double checked and TDC does line up where it is supposed to.


Sorry late to the party! How did you check that TDC lines up to mark? Did you pull number 1 spark plug and get that pistion to TDC? If so then that's great. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #13 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:23 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
Creechn32 wrote:I just double checked and TDC does line up where it is supposed to.


Sorry late to the party! How did you check that TDC lines up to mark? Did you pull number 1 spark plug and get that pistion to TDC? If so then that's great. :nod:


That is exactly how I checked it. I pulled #1 plug and rotated engine until piston reached top of stroke. This is why I am reaching out. I've been trying to tune this hesitation out and have been unsuccessful. If I adjust timing until best performance its at about 30* with vacuum advance disconnected. I'm wondering if there is something someone did improperly, previously, that I might not know of. I will add that at that point of timing the engine runs with almost no hesitation at all and runs out strong when stepped on hard....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

63 170 hesitation issues

Post #14 by chad » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:05 am

chad wrote: I think guys R finding total = 24 to 34, 36.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
62Cometman
Registered User
Posts: 240
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #15 by 62Cometman » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:28 am

When you say 30* are you meaning for initial advance? Cause that is ridiculous! Factory spec is 6-8 mine is set to 14 cause thats where it ran best at idle. If you are putting in almost double that then im willing to bet your timing set is off or your balancer has slipped.

Also the LOM units do not have any mechanical advance in them they are purely initial and vacuum, so having more initial than stock spec is pretty common, I know you said your carb has been rebuilt but is it possible that hesitation is fuel caused? maybe the accelerator pump is too large or the jetting needs to be changed?
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, Dagenham Trans, 2.83:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #16 by Creechn32 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:27 pm

62Cometman wrote:When you say 30* are you meaning for initial advance? Cause that is ridiculous! Factory spec is 6-8 mine is set to 14 cause thats where it ran best at idle. If you are putting in almost double that then im willing to bet your timing set is off or your balancer has slipped.

Also the LOM units do not have any mechanical advance in them they are purely initial and vacuum, so having more initial than stock spec is pretty common, I know you said your carb has been rebuilt but is it possible that hesitation is fuel caused? maybe the accelerator pump is too large or the jetting needs to be changed?


That would be for initial advance yes. Hard part I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is TDC marks all line up when #1 plug is removed and piston is brought up. And the car is running well where the timing is set. Idles nice and smooth and accelerates nicely, other than the small bit of hesitation from a stop. Seems like a lot of timing to me so that's why I'm wondering if maybe the timing gears might be off a tooth. I would think the car wouldn't even run being off a tooth on the timing gear though.

Accelerator pump too large? I have thought about buying a premium kit from Mikes Carbs but I'm also suspicious about the carburetor itself. I've also wondered about the jetting. Looks like previous owner purchased a generic Autolite 1100 reman carb from a parts store. It is matched to the LOM but I have had to make adjustments that should have already been made. The accelerator pump actually wasn't adjusted correctly, I had to bend the rod to push the lever out a little. Adjusted with a 3/16 drill bit for a gauge. That got rid of some of the hesitation. I've adjusted so many small things and had improvements along the whole way, like the valves needing lashed, but just can't get rid of all of the hesitation. With the timing lining up on TDC and running so advanced I was curious if it was possible that the cam gear be one tooth off????

On a side note I was reading another post about an Autolite 1100 that had the vent rod removed by a previous owner. My 1100 has had the vent rod removed and the hole plugged. This is one reason why I'm suspicious about this carburetor. Still doesn't explain the timing marks though..... :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:28 pm

Creechn32 wrote:
62Cometman wrote:When you say 30* are you meaning for initial advance? Cause that is ridiculous! Factory spec is 6-8 mine is set to 14 cause thats where it ran best at idle. If you are putting in almost double that then im willing to bet your timing set is off or your balancer has slipped.

Also the LOM units do not have any mechanical advance in them they are purely initial and vacuum, so having more initial than stock spec is pretty common, I know you said your carb has been rebuilt but is it possible that hesitation is fuel caused? maybe the accelerator pump is too large or the jetting needs to be changed?


That would be for initial advance yes. Hard part I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is TDC marks all line up when #1 plug is removed and piston is brought up. And the car is running well where the timing is set. Idles nice and smooth and accelerates nicely, other than the small bit of hesitation from a stop. Seems like a lot of timing to me so that's why I'm wondering if maybe the timing gears might be off a tooth. I would think the car wouldn't even run being off a tooth on the timing gear though.

Accelerator pump too large? I have thought about buying a premium kit from Mikes Carbs but I'm also suspicious about the carburetor itself. I've also wondered about the jetting. Looks like previous owner purchased a generic Autolite 1100 reman carb from a parts store. It is matched to the LOM but I have had to make adjustments that should have already been made. The accelerator pump actually wasn't adjusted correctly, I had to bend the rod to push the lever out a little. Adjusted with a 3/16 drill bit for a gauge. That got rid of some of the hesitation. I've adjusted so many small things and had improvements along the whole way, like the valves needing lashed, but just can't get rid of all of the hesitation. With the timing lining up on TDC and running so advanced I was curious if it was possible that the cam gear be one tooth off????

On a side note I was reading another post about an Autolite 1100 that had the vent rod removed by a previous owner. My 1100 has had the vent rod removed and the hole plugged. This is one reason why I'm suspicious about this carburetor. Still doesn't explain the timing marks though..... :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:


On the cam timing being one tooth off its not likely though the timing chain could be stretched and or the cam and crank gears worn from lots of use. You can test for bad timing chain and the gears by hand turning the crankshaft to the TDC timing mark then take off the distribtor cap and mark the position of the rotor, now start turning the crank the opposite direction until the rotor starts to move. The differerance of how much the rotor moves compared to the Crankshaft is how much slop there is in the timing chain & gear set.

30 degrees Is way to much base timing! Start back at 10 to 14 degrees BTDC, do you have the point dwell set correctly? The dewell setting Is very important. No the accelerator isn't too large but it may need to be adjusted a little more as you have all ready done. To Work on the accelerators pump shot timing and get the duration right. Stock jetting to 1 or 2 sizes richer should work out close for a stock engine, so start with what you have, and you will need to be sure to get the timing set right first before doing any experimenting with the carb jetting. Due to Ford's design improvements the later model Autolite carb's didn't have the "power vent rods" so yes they can be removed and plugged or you can also swap on one of the later Autolite carb top's. Good luck :thumbup: :nod
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #18 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:22 am

Have you done a compression test of your engine yet? If so what were the results. Here is info on how the LOM distribitor works too.
ci/Loadomatic.html

Here are the Stock 1963 170 Tune up specs
Distribitor rotates CW firing order is 153624
Autolite BF-82 plugs gaped at .034.
Basic Points setting gapping them at .025 but for the very best performance your looking for a Dwell setting of 37 Degrees.
Base timing is set to 6 Degrees BTDC for a Standard ( Stick) trans and 12 Degrees BTDC for a Automatic trans.
Idle RPM is 550 to 600 RPM for a Standard Trans and 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto Trans in Drive, parking brake set, AC if you have that is off
Fuel pressure is 4.5 PSI

To get most accurate tune up with a orginal point ignition always use of a tach / dwell meter, and also a timing light. This is the procedure I have used for decades and quickly for a persision tune up.

A good tune up follows this order of work.
1. Set the plug gap to .034
2. Set the points basic setting to .025 after its running set the Dwell Angel to factory spec of 37 degrees.
3. Now you need to set the timing to the 6 degrees (with stick Trans) or 12 degrees (Auto Trans) base timing vacuum line disconnected and plugged. You can also try more base timing to as much as 16 degrees but if there is any hint of pinging when you try it driving it up a slight grade then back it off until it stops. Reinstall the vaccum line to the Distribitor after setting the base timing.
4. With engine warmed up good, choke blade is fully open too. Set the Idle mixture to its Lean Best Idle. ie set to highest idle RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn to lean it. See Addistional Notes below.
5. Set the curb idle speed to 550 to 600 RPM if standard Trans. Set idle RPM's to 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto trans in drive parking brake set, wheels chocked with block of wood, or you can have someone set in it and hold the brakes.
6. Repeat 4. & 5. To see if it improves anymore. When properly tuned these engines (warmed up) will restart without even touching the gas pedal.

Addistional Notes
You might also test your coils output with the volt / ohm meter to see that it's within spec. Or you can do it by watching the spark color (a Bright Blue) and the lenght it can jump to cap terminal (from 1/2 inch or more).

While doing the tune up settings to the carb mixture and curb idle setting the engine needs everything installed and hooked up just as it will be operated! This includes having the Air Cleaner with a clean air filter installed and the PCV hooked up if your engine has one. If you want to use a Vacuum gauge then hook that up to the Intake Log below the Carb you would be looking for about a steady 17 inches of vacuum at idle RPM. Good luck in your tuning :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
62Cometman
Registered User
Posts: 240
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #19 by 62Cometman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:34 am

Ive done all the steps, just as bubba mentioned, and i can tell you tuning idle circuits with a vacuum gauge is very handy, my motor had a pinch over 20" vacuum once i was done messing with it. It nice to see a visual to tell you if what your doing is good or bad.
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, Dagenham Trans, 2.83:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #20 by Creechn32 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:10 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Have you done a compression test of your engine yet? If so what were the results. Here is info on how the LOM distribitor works too.
ci/Loadomatic.html

Here are the Stock 1963 170 Tune up specs
Distribitor rotates CW firing order is 153624
Autolite BF-82 plugs gaped at .034.
Basic Points setting gapping them at .025 but for the very best performance your looking for a Dwell setting of 37 Degrees.
Base timing is set to 6 Degrees BTDC for a Standard ( Stick) trans and 12 Degrees BTDC for a Automatic trans.
Idle RPM is 550 to 600 RPM for a Standard Trans and 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto Trans in Drive, parking brake set, AC if you have that is off
Fuel pressure is 4.5 PSI

To get most accurate tune up with a orginal point ignition always use of a tach / dwell meter, and also a timing light. This is the procedure I have used for decades and quickly for a persision tune up.

A good tune up follows this order of work.
1. Set the plug gap to .034
2. Set the points basic setting to .025 after its running set the Dwell Angel to factory spec of 37 degrees.
3. Now you need to set the timing to the 6 degrees (with stick Trans) or 12 degrees (Auto Trans) base timing vacuum line disconnected and plugged. You can also try more base timing to as much as 16 degrees but if there is any hint of pinging when you try it driving it up a slight grade then back it off until it stops. Reinstall the vaccum line to the Distribitor after setting the base timing.
4. With engine warmed up good, choke blade is fully open too. Set the Idle mixture to its Lean Best Idle. ie set to highest idle RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn to lean it. See Addistional Notes below.
5. Set the curb idle speed to 550 to 600 RPM if standard Trans. Set idle RPM's to 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto trans in drive parking brake set, wheels chocked with block of wood, or you can have someone set in it and hold the brakes.
6. Repeat 4. & 5. To see if it improves anymore. When properly tuned these engines (warmed up) will restart without even touching the gas pedal.

Addistional Notes
You might also test your coils output with the volt / ohm meter to see that it's within spec. Or you can do it by watching the spark color (a Bright Blue) and the lenght it can jump to cap terminal (from 1/2 inch or more).

While doing the tune up settings to the carb mixture and curb idle setting the engine needs everything installed and hooked up just as it will be operated! This includes having the Air Cleaner with a clean air filter installed and the PCV hooked up if your engine has one. If you want to use a Vacuum gauge then hook that up to the Intake Log below the Carb you would be looking for about a steady 17 inches of vacuum at idle RPM. Good luck in your tuning :thumbup: :nod: Edited



So, I'm not sure if you read the post or not but just to make sure I didn't forget or was mistaken I went out, with a timing light, and reset the timing at 12-13* base timing. Adjusted the idle mixture screw a tad and the car runs like complete junk. Will barely go down the road. Now if I adjust the timing to near 30* base timing the car runs at its best in current form. Everything you mentioned minus the dwell meter and vacuum gauge has been done. When I replaced the plugs I gapped them. When I replaced the points I gapped them. When I pulled the distributor to check for shaft wobble, and found none, I checked point gap full rotation at every lobe on the point cam. The spark is great as she fires right up and I've pulled every plug wire, while running, searching for a bad wire. At that time I observed the amount of spark and it was a lot to say the least. My original question comes from the fact that I cannot even advance the timing enough to create a pinging. I'm not a mechanic by trade but I've been working on vehicles for about 22 years now but I'm not an expert. I do understand however that the timing should not be as far out as it is without the damper having slipped. Odd thing is the TDC marks line up as they should. I still go back to my original question. I've also read and read on all the LOM distributor info I can find on this site and across the web. I've also read about all the tuneup info you posted long before I decided to ask my original question. None of that has worked. If everything is correct 30* of base timing shouldn't even go down the road so that is where I come back to my original question. Is it possible that the cam gear be off one tooth? Or even though TDC marks line up that the balancer has slipped? If the balancer has slipped it still doesn't solve the bad hesitation no matter the timing adjustment.
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #21 by Creechn32 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:07 pm

Here are some pictures of the ignition components and the carburetor.... Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #22 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:54 pm

Yes I have read all your posts and I have addressed your question on the timing being one tooth off and how to check for a worn timing chain and gear set in the #17 post above. Yes I had also seen that you did many of the things listed in post # 18 yet not everthing was stated or even yet such as a compression test, hence the step by step method I use that rules out each item that can be a cause of trouble. Sorry if I have offended you but with any newer member there is little chance of knowing at first where they are starting from as far as experance level until you tell us. Then also there are many other people that search these posts for answers to their questions too so some of my and others answers will be for them.

Anyway there is a problem if your engine has good compression that's close to equal in all the cylinders, plus then we all know now that your engine shouldn't need to have 30 degrees of base timing to run right. Check out your timing chain set this is the likely cause of this. Ie just because the timing marks on the Dampner line correctly with the timing cover timing marks with the piston being at TDC this is only going to show that the crankshaft dampner hasn't slipped. The distribitors body position can be easily turned so that it will fire the #1 cylinder yet the Distribitor rotor is being turned by the camshaft which is turned by the crankshaft via the timing chain and gear set. So if the timing chain set is very worn out its going to be way off in relation to the crankshaft position. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #23 by Creechn32 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:58 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Yes I have read all your posts and I have addressed your question on the timing being one tooth off and how to check for a worn timing chain and gear set in the #17 post above. Yes I had also seen that you did many of the things listed in post # 18 yet not everthing was stated or even yet such as a compression test, hence the step by step method I use that rules out each item that can be a cause of trouble. Sorry if I have offended you but with any newer member there is little chance of knowing at first where they are starting from as far as experance level until you tell us. Then also there are many other people that search these posts for answers to their questions too.

Anyway there is a problem as we all now know that your engine shouldn't need to have 30 degrees of base timing to run right. Check out your timing chain set this is the likely cause of this. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Thank'you, I will continue to search for the issue and keep y'all informed. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me...
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #24 by chad » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:34 pm

even tho it only has "1 thru 6" bubs has laid out well over 75 steps. Just to go thru them w/o a skip (I do this cuz "I know" & guess what - that 1 I skipped, I didn't know & assumed) will take a full morning.
I often find problems where "I knew everything is OK". Luckily I have another task to get onto or I'd blow my top (not a good thing). I come back later possibly w/the solution frm freein my mind / focusing on something else. /OR/ realize I did not do a simple step lower in the sequence / mislaid a sm component, spoke w/a more knowledgable friend... The guy who's shop I'm at is way better'n me. He keeps at it (more'n me) and has more experience. Sometimes 'not keepin at it" can have advantages too (a break thru).

Example - not that it applies here but - I think I mentioned "condensers & points should B replaced simultaneously" each time. Little things can have little effects (& sometimes bigger). Any way, hope U take a break, sounds like ur attitude already has improved. That's a good thing.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #25 by Creechn32 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:08 am

My apologies is I came across with an attitude. I do appreciate the knowledge y'all have shared with me.

As I do not own a dwell meter or vacuum test gauge I was curious if y'all would have a suggestion to quality tools to invest in or particular ones to stay away from?
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #26 by bubba22349 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:47 pm

Creechn32 wrote:My apologies is I came across with an attitude. I do appreciate the knowledge y'all have shared with me.

As I do not own a dwell meter or vacuum test gauge I was curious if y'all would have a suggestion to quality tools to invest in or particular ones to stay away from?


OK It's all good, we all need to start somewhere and our site members are great people and glad to help you figure it out. On Tach / Dwell units there are a lot of good one and fthen you can pick the higher end units used at very reasonable prices. Some of these older models are Snap On, Mac, NAPA Balkamp, Katel, & Craftsmen, there are probably a lot more that am not thinking of right now. I personally like those that have a larger size meter that makes it easy to see from a distance. Did you get your timing chain set check out yet? Vacuum Gauges are simple and you will find quality ones at most auto parts houses like NAPA again Snap On is a top brand but even less the expensive one will work good. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #27 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:17 pm

Creechn32, have you made any progress on your 170? :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'63 170 hesitation

Post #28 by chad » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:49 am

lill bump 1 wk later...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #29 by Creechn32 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:11 pm

Sorry guys, between work, weather, and life I havnt had the time. Still need to grab myself a dwell meter, vacuum gauge, and a timing gasket set. I've been thinking about different possibilities for the poor performance though. I'm going to try and track these things down this week though.....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

63 170 hesitation

Post #30 by chad » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:21 pm

ja get the brand suggestions frm here?
:hmmm:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 63 170 hesitation

Post #31 by Creechn32 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:13 am

chad wrote:ja get the brand suggestions frm here?
:hmmm:


Yes I did, thank you. I will keep y'all updated...
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

Gruuvy6
Registered User
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:40 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #32 by Gruuvy6 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:26 pm

Hey guys, I'll try a bit to contribute here. I waded into my 170 a couple years ago right when I got it, because it would drop off on light throttle, then right after that it would respond with a nice torquey pull. After pulling knowledge from this forum... man what a difference a few tweaks made right away! I did what seemed obvious to me first, including plugs and wires, and even rebuilding the carb (Autolite 1100). The car had sat a few years before I got it, so I was eager to do this. But it wasn't the cure. I came back to this forum, dug deeper, then down the rabbit hole I went. The gremlins I found on mine were as follows:
1. Needed a new accelerator pump diaphragm... mine had rotted and was leaking onto the motor with every pull. Couldn't see it right away, but the more I drove it, the more obvious it became. Even a tiny drip on acceleration means less fuel to the motor. The logic is obvious, but it wasn't obvious right away that it was even leaking. Of the entire carb rebuild, this made a difference, but didn't fix it...
2. Tightened up the linkage to the accelerator pump. I think you mentioned doing this. On mine, this closed the gap big time on the initial stall during acceleration. I did the drill bit set up, then found I needed to take it a bit further for best results. It didn't make it go away though, probably more of a bandaid.
3. Time by vacuum, check dwell. Timing by vacuum was a bit of a game changer... I found that the right timing for my motor was way out there as well. It was REALLY hard to get it to ping. I assumed some of this was because my balancer had rotated. It was old looking, easy to assume it was bad. Changing the balancer did nothing for me. The old one hadn't slipped afterall. Dwell was tricky because micro adjustments are difficult. The meter really is the trick... just keep trying till you nail it. All in all, these made improvement, but weren't the main problem.
4. Make sure your choke opens its blades ALL THE WAY when warm. These motors struggle to breath as it is. This also didn't fix the problem, but made overall performance better.
5. I suspected fuel pump and filter... mine were serviceable and terribly dirty, so I cleaned them with little improvement. Why I didn't do this earlier, I don't know. Though it should have been one of the first things, it also wasn't the answer I needed.
6. I was pulling excellent vacuum while timing with the vacuum gauge, so I assumed I had no vacuum leak. I could also watch the vacuum advance as I reved the motor. I finally grabbed the distributor vacuum advance hose and sucked on it (motor off of course)... it was a leaker. It should pull down tight, mine kept pulling. Don't draw to hard on this, they are delicate. As soon as I changed this, the car was amazing. I actually had to drop back a touch on the accelerator pump linkage to make it just right (turns out the drill bit adjustment technique was spot on). The stall at initial acceleration was GONE. Yet STILL the timing was out there on the balancer.
7. A friend came by and rotated the crank, watching the rotor. He'd rotate one way and then the other, watching for delay in rotor movement. Turns out it doesn't take much of a lag in movement to show you that there is slop in your timing set. I pulled the cover, finding SO MUCH SLOP in the chain. Rotate the crank enough to tighten the chain one side of the gears, then push the middle of the other side of the chain back and forth. It shouldn't move more than 1/2" (from what I was told). Mine moved 3/4". Everyone I've told that to was pretty amazed I hadn't slipped a tooth by now. Maybe I had, given how far off my timing was showing. I followed protocol for re-setting TDC (also found on this forum) and installed a new timing chain and gears. Now the thing times perfectly. Oddly, I didn't notice an improvement from this one. I think that lends credence to how accurate the vacuum method times your motor. It's the better way to get your motor (with its worn out components) to run at its absolute best. But I'm glad the chain isn't at risk for jumping a tooth now, and so happy to drive this car every day!

Anyway, maybe this helped... these really are fun peppy little motors once you get them in shape.
Final takeaway... this forum is amazing. FULL of wisdom that makes working on these motors a joy. Left on my own, I would have done less than half of the above, and wondered why my timing chain ended up breaking. :)
Good luck, and of course post back your answer when you find it.. .we'll all be better for it.
Cheers, Gruuvy.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #33 by chad » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:42 pm

well said!
I think U put it all together in this 1 post.
We've (may B? I wont re-read) spitted it out piece by piece.

"...maybe this helped..."
He's gunna proceed on ur #3 nxt I think.
Glad U found the 'keys' as it sounds like ur a 'happy driver' now...

Don't we'all make a good team?
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Gruuvy6
Registered User
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:40 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #34 by Gruuvy6 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:22 pm

Sometimes you sit down to type a short post, haha. Didn't mean to write a full summary as much as to have fun with my own trail of tears. Spoiler alert/shortcut: #6 was the fixer for me.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #35 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:12 am

Gruuvy6 wrote:Sometimes you sit down to type a short post, haha. Didn't mean to write a full summary as much as to have fun with my own trail of tears. Spoiler alert/shortcut: #6 was the fixer for me.



Sounds like I am traversing a similar rabbit hole. I know accelerator pump is new, fuel filter was replaced, the vacuum diaphragm on the distributor was replaced, all new quality ignition components. This is not to say that maybe I haven't gotten a bad part in there somewhere. My next plan of attack is I've picked up a vacuum test gauge. I'll try tuning with it and see how close that gets me but I've suspected timing chain issue since the beginning of this thread. I have yet to be able to track a dwell meter down in person so I will probably end up having to order one online. I'll keep tuning away and moving onto the next possible problem till we get the issues solved. Thank y'all for all the insight. On another note I do know the previous owner replaced the fuel tank and sending unit before I purchased the car. I am wondering if he replaced the fuel pump however. There have been some tell tale signs that point to the previous owner taking a couple shortcuts on the work that was performed so Imhave my doubts. I've wondered if when he had the engine "redone" how many parts they reused, like the timing chain, or perhaps the camshaft. Has me thinking that if the timing chain is bad that it's not that much further at that point to do a cam swap to maybe coax a little more torque out of her....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #36 by Creechn32 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:35 pm

So, hooked up the vacuum gauge to the manifold where the Pcv valve attaches, it was pulling right near 21 inches with minor fluctuation. I adjusted the idle mixture screw which steadied what very little fluctuation there was. I moved the timing very minutely to increase it to a steady 21 inches of vacuum. When I plugged the Pcv valve back in I noticed the engine didn't sound as good. Disconnected the Pcv valve, plugged the line, and when I took it around the block there was no hesitation. My questions now are, is the Pcv valve bad and needs replacing or should I be taking vacuum readings with it hooked up? Or is it both? I know a Pcv valve is just some pocket change to replace but oddly enough I don't think I've heard it mentioned in any of the suggestions. When I plugged the Pcv valve back in like it should be and drove around the block the hesitation returned. The valve isn't stuck, it still has spring pressure behind it but it could probly still use replacing.
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #37 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:36 pm

Creechn32 wrote:So, hooked up the vacuum gauge to the manifold where the Pcv valve attaches, it was pulling right near 21 inches with minor fluctuation. I adjusted the idle mixture screw which steadied what very little fluctuation there was. I moved the timing very minutely to increase it to a steady 21 inches of vacuum. When I plugged the Pcv valve back in I noticed the engine didn't sound as good. Disconnected the Pcv valve, plugged the line, and when I took it around the block there was no hesitation. My questions now are, is the Pcv valve bad and needs replacing or should I be taking vacuum readings with it hooked up? Or is it both? I know a Pcv valve is just some pocket change to replace but oddly enough I don't think I've heard it mentioned in any of the suggestions. When I plugged the Pcv valve back in like it should be and drove around the block the hesitation returned. The valve isn't stuck, it still has spring pressure behind it but it could probly still use replacing.


Yes a PCV can and maybe bad though they last a very long time they do require replacement somtimes you can also clean them with carb cleaner too. Yes for sure the PCV needs to be hooked up (as its a controlled vacuum leak), during the fine tuning of the carb's settings as well as the Air Cleaner in place with a clean air filter too and all other parts that would be normally be installed for the cars on the road operation. You can't get a good accurate tune without all the systems in place. You can use a T fitting in the line temporally for the vaccuum gauge hook up. Remember that the carb settings are the very last thing to adjust after you first have Ignistion dwell setting correct as well as the base timing set correctly. Did you ever check the timing chain out or test it for excessive slop? Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #38 by Creechn32 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:19 pm

I did check for slop and I could not observe any noticeably turning the crank in both directions. As soon as I turn in either direction the rotor begins to turn. So, I'm not sure how far out dwell could be with a new set of points but I would need to find a dwell meter to check. I still don't think a small adjustment in dwell is going to explain the timing being so far out. That could be me not knowing though....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #39 by bubba22349 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:56 pm

Creechn32 wrote:I did check for slop and I could not observe any noticeably turning the crank in both directions. As soon as I turn in either direction the rotor begins to turn.

1. Ok I am glad to know this info and we can check off the timing chain set as not being a cause of timing problem it's in excellent condition!

So, I'm not sure how far out dwell could be with a new set of points but I would need to find a dwell meter to check. I still don't think a small adjustment in dwell is going to explain the timing being so far out. That could be me not knowing though....


The cam lobs of the distributor are 60 degrees apart. The points will be roughly about .006 to .008 too wide of a gap when set to the basic factory starting setting, which retards the timing some, even the spark plugs gap being wrong (to wide or to narrow of a gap) can all effect the timing and the coils operation, and that is why both of these need to be set correctly before setting the base timing. You are right in your thinking that the points not being set correctly wont account for all the difference of the base timing being at 30 degrees, but it will be a part of it. Now that we know the timing chain is good, there will be another cause in this mystery and some more data will be needed to diagnose the problem. Is the SCV on the carb working? Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

frozenrabbit
Registered User
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #40 by frozenrabbit » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:50 pm

Is your block a '63? I believe only California emission engines came with a PVC in '63. Even then, the PVC valve was located where the road draft tube attached to the block.

Can't see in your photos if there is a road draft tube on your engine. Would be at the front of the block, just ahead of the distibutor.

Plugging the vacuum line to the PVC seemed to get you running better.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #41 by Creechn32 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:23 pm

I cannot attest that the block is a 63. I was told it was original to the vehicle but that could be misinformation. I do not have a road draft tube. The SCV was replaced when I rebuilt the carburetor. I guess it is a possibility that it was bad from the start. Sounds like to move any further I need to find me a dwell meter.....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

frozenrabbit
Registered User
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #42 by frozenrabbit » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:35 pm

The block number is on the passenger side of the block, just below the exhaust manifold.

'63 block # will start with C3. C4 for '64, C5 for '65, and so on. Same for the head casting #.

D first is 70's, E is 80's.

Looks like you have a later exhaust manifold with that crimped over emissions pipe.

I have no idea if there are differences in the Autolite 1100 carbs for road draft vs. PVC setups.

Don't know if this may be an issue caused by the power vent rod being removed from your carb with the hole for it plugged.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'63 170 hesitation

Post #43 by chad » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:39 pm

"...The SCV was replaced when I rebuilt the carburetor...."
& the dizzy still LOM?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9167
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #44 by bubba22349 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:19 pm

Ok the SCV was replaced. Do you know at what RPM the idle is set at? If not that's another good reason for finding a Tach / Dwell meter. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

Chad yes his 170 still has a Load O Matic distrib. it's shown clearly in the OP's pictures posted above! :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #45 by Creechn32 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:30 am

bubba22349 wrote:Ok the SCV was replaced. Do you know at what RPM the idle is set at? If not that's another good reason for finding a Tach / Dwell meter. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

Chad yes his 170 still has a Load O Matic distrib. it's shown clearly in the OP's pictures posted above! :nod:


I don't have a tach, I'm going to guess that I'm close though. I did set the idle in drive with the e-brake on. I was really close with the timing by ear so I'm going to say I'm probably pretty close with the idle. Not that I won't check it when I get there, just thinking out loud.

As far as that exhaust manifold goes it does not look original to the engine. I can tell you that I have a block that only has the three freeze plugs so I know it's a four main bearing block. I thought about upgrading in the future to a newer 200 block so I could upgrade the distributor. But that has no affect on today. Next step is tracking down that tach/dwell meter....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #46 by chad » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:33 pm

"...tracking down that tach/dwell meter..."
I know we had 1 to loan out at AutoZone ('Hamp, MA). here's sompin may help:

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/o/loaner-tools
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #47 by Creechn32 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:20 am

Finally got the dwell set, went through all of the suggested tuneup instructions in order as talked about. In the end the dwell made a huge difference and I was able to time the engine near factory specs without it dying but it still wasn't correct. I was able to observe the timing advance from around 16 to near 30 though, that just lets me know the diaphragm wasn't bad out of the box. In the end I had to hook the vacuum gauge back up and advance it to where it was previously. I still need to purchase a T to hook the vacuum gauge inline with the PCV valve and purchase a new PCV. I will probably do that this weekend. Things have been cold here so working on the car after dark has not been something I've been wanting to do. I guess with my experience with a points ignition shows through. I didn't think setting the dwell would have such an affect. Points ended up gapped at .023 in order to get the correct dwell. Initial timing is set near 25-30* still. Not sure what pinging or detonation sounds like but with the timing set there she pulls strong when the RPM's jump up but from a stop slow acceleration still has hesitation. I've read about plugs being too cold or hot, how would I assess whether that could be a contributing factor? Thinking about pulling the carb back apart and seeing if I missed something also. I was pretty thorough when I rebuilt it though. I'll start with the PCV and go from there.....
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

frozenrabbit
Registered User
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #48 by frozenrabbit » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:58 am

You won't get an accurate vacuum reading tee-d into the PCV line, as air is being pulled from the valve cover, that will be like a leak in the line.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4878
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'vac guage tune - 63 170 hesitation issues

Post #49 by chad » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:11 pm

manafold vacuum, plez
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 'vac guage tune - 63 170 hesitation issues

Post #50 by Creechn32 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:24 pm

chad wrote:manafold vacuum, plez


I have been unplugging the the PcV and attaching the vacuum gauge at that point. I thought someone said I needed to read vacuum with it attached though. Only other line attached to manifold vacuum is the actuator for the transmission. I'm getting steady vacuum readings when detaching the PCV, is that not accurate with the PCV disconnected? Just curious the best way to go about this without having to install a permanent T in the hard line to the actuator.... :hmmm: :hmmm:
1963 Ford Falcon 4 door: 170/2sp automatic, all original except paint, in need of front and rear bumpers and brackets, soon to upgrade suspension
Newton, NC

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests