Short Block Build Plan - Thoughts?

Matthew68

Well-known member
Hi Folks,

I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of my VI aluminum head (should be coming with the next month) so I'm finalizing my build plans for the short block. It's a stock 68 200 block, never been pulled. Here's my plan...looking for thoughts/opinions based on what you're reading here. I'm not trying to build a race/track car, but just a cruiser that has more pep than stock. I'm located in Cincinnati, OH - around 500' elevation. I run premium 93 fuel almost exclusively, since I don't drive it a lot. I'm aiming for 9.5 to 10:1 compression ratio.


1. Machine the block - over bore/hone as needed, align hone, thorough cleaning, etc
2. New bearings - main, con rods, cam
3. New oil pump, pickup screen, intermediate shaft (all Melling)
4. New motor mounts
5. Keith Black Hypereutectic Flat Top pistons (oversize TBD after machine work)
6. Hastings Cast Piston Rings (they don't sell Moly rings for the hyper pistons, widths are nonstandard 1.5mm, 1.5mm, 4.0mm)
7. Schneider Racing Cams 270-H, 270 duration, 214 at .050", 110 LSA, .485" lift with YT 1.65 rockers
8. Vintage Inlines dual roller timing chain
9. FlowKooler High Flow water pump
10. Full gasket set - do you all recommend the rope rear main seal or the newer material?

I'm planning to reuse my rods, mains, etc. At this time, I'm not planning to balance the rods or use ARP rod bolts. Is this a necessary step? Balancing is expensive - around $250. If I do ARP rod bolts is it necessary to balance the rods?

I also do not plan to zero deck the block based on my current pistons, as the KB hyper pistons have a .030" tall compression height. I'll carefully measure when I disassemble and adjust accordingly, but I may only need to just run over the deck surface and that's it.

Appreciate any thoughts or input - this is my first major overhaul. Once I finalize all the head build, I'll chime in with those details (chamber size, springs, etc).

Cheers,
Matthew
 
Get the ARP rod bolts. That being said you will have to have the rod reconditioned. I strongly advise balancing.
Do not align hone the mains unless absolutely necessary. If so it loosens the timing chain.
If you have the $$ to purchase the VI head, why short cut the bottom end.
 
just follow the "Handbook"'s recommendations. Pretty clear, simple, thorough.

The rod bolts R 1 clear repeated recommendation. No, not necessary to balance just 2 putem in.

See the above tech archive for CI/VI recommendations on machining a block for alu head (& Class II or III?). Also I think U must inform ur assembler or machinist abt the double timing chain, no?

Will U assemble head &/or motor? Who will measure the piston/head interference - decide on deck hight? Can U degree the cam?
 
wsa111":2npnauyq said:
Get the ARP rod bolts. That being said you will have to have the rod reconditioned. I strongly advise balancing.
Do not align hone the mains unless absolutely necessary. If so it loosens the timing chain.
If you have the $$ to purchase the VI head, why short cut the bottom end.

Bill, thanks for the advice. I don’t want to short change the block, just didn’t want to overkill anything. I’ll make sure align hone is only done if absolutely necessary. I will also strongly think about the balancing too.
 
chad":2xtr4f76 said:
just follow the "Handbook"'s recommendations. Pretty clear, simple, thorough.

The rod bolts R 1 clear repeated recommendation. No, not necessary to balance just 2 putem in.

See the above tech archive for CI/VI recommendations on machining a block for alu head (& Class II or III?). Also I think U must inform ur assembler or machinist abt the double timing chain, no?

Will U assemble head &/or motor? Who will measure the piston/head interference - decide on deck hight? Can U degree the cam?

Chad, thank you. Yes, I’ve read through them. I will be giving him all parts as he will be assembling the short block. My second child is due in a month so I will not have the time to assemble, nor do I have the know how on the block. On the head, I’m comfortable with it as I’ve removed and replaced them before.

On degreeing the cam - when I spoke to Jerry at Schneider he said they grind with 2 degrees advance so it gets installed dot to dot. Again, this is information I’ll certainly share with my machinist.
 
If you want more low end you might want 4 degrees of advance??? The wrist pin offset also affects low end, mod-range & top end.
What are your specs on your piston choice?? How much offset??
 
congrats on the child!

The lill ones R what makes livin worthwhile
B it on my good days or on my bad days...
 
Your bore texture needs to be set up smooth . Have your machinist supply Rpk, Rk and Rvk readings from a laser profilometer.If he can't, get another mschinist.With hypers, the bore texture needs to be set up like an EFi OBD-ii engine with 10, 15 and 23 respectively. Ring tension should be 3.2 lb-ft+/-0.2 on the compression rings, and 10 lb-ft +/-1.0 on the oil controls. Crome or ductile iron is irrelevent as long as you follow the run in requirements.This is totally contrary to how Fords bores in the 60s to early 80s were set up rough, with Rpks of 15-20, Rks of 45 or so and Rvks of 55 or so, just like small block Gen 1s. Average Ra has nothing to do with bore prep for a hypereutectic piston. Old specs for Fords 3.3 US pistons were for a different kind of bore texture than we need in 2019.
 
Forget that dot to dot stuff, the cam must be degreed...That is the only way to know if it is right for sure...Do not build engines to chance.
 
wsa111":1j3fyjgr said:
If you want more low end you might want 4 degrees of advance??? The wrist pin offset also affects low end, mod-range & top end.
What are your specs on your piston choice?? How much offset??

Bill, piston specs in the pic below:
EB04CE2B-108B-4FD2-8C9C-F6117560E763.png
 
xctasy":1vq8yni5 said:
Your bore texture needs to be set up smooth . Have your machinist supply Rpk, Rk and Rvk readings from a laser profilometer.If he can't, get another mschinist.With hypers, the bore texture needs to be set up like an EFi OBD-ii engine with 10, 15 and 23 respectively. Ring tension should be 3.2 lb-ft+/-0.2 on the compression rings, and 10 lb-ft +/-1.0 on the oil controls. Crome or ductile iron is irrelevent as long as you follow the run in requirements.This is totally contrary to how Fords bores in the 60s to early 80s were set up rough, with Rpks of 15-20, Rks of 45 or so and Rvks of 55 or so, just like small block Gen 1s. Average Ra has nothing to do with bore prep for a hypereutectic piston. Old specs for Fords 3.3 US pistons were for a different kind of bore texture than we need in 2019.

Thanks X. I’ll pass this info along to my machinist.
 
chad":2jbk4jze said:
congrats on the child!

The lill ones R what makes livin worthwhile
B it on my good days or on my bad days...

Thanks Chad! Can’t wait to share this car with them.
 
drag-200stang":axen6ma8 said:
Forget that dot to dot stuff, the cam must be degreed...That is the only way to know if it is right for sure...Do not build engines to chance.

Thanks, drag. Since I’m not assembling the engine I’ll be sure he degrees. He’s been a machinist for over 40 years so this should be in his wheelhouse. I may even ask to be present for the assembly just to learn.
 
Matthew68":2hvszxep said:
I may even ask to be present for the assembly just to learn.
Watch echo1955 instead. He degrees like an ol pro.
It takes some concentration so a physical distraction can B frustrating.
Watch echo's (our member's UTube) to participate, then ur rig will B assured of correctness...

Id ask 2X the price (for some1 present while I degree), but I'm not an ol pro @ it!
:eek:
 
Matthew68":3uue2oa9 said:
Econoline":3uue2oa9 said:
A race engine, not some kind of daily driver?

Eco - as in I’m going too overboard with the build for a daily?

Yeah. Maybe ;)

Sounds like a cool build. Thats alot of cam, with 110 lsa it's going to be a bit lumpy at idle. What trans are you running?
 
chad":z3nwec0k said:
Matthew68":z3nwec0k said:
I may even ask to be present for the assembly just to learn.
Watch echo1955 instead. He degrees like an ol pro.
It takes some concentration so a physical distraction can B frustrating.
Watch echo's (our member's UTube) to participate, then ur rig will B assured of correctness...

Id ask 2X the price (for some1 present while I degree), but I'm not an ol pro @ it!
:eek:

I’ve watched his videos a few times. I agree there is great information. The hard part for me is, I don’t have the time with the distractions. I work full time, two kids, etc.

Not to mention I don’t have all the tools or know how to do everything. Even after watching the videos I still have questions. I realize Forum members can help but I can’t be waiting days for replies when I have something all ready to go. If I were to assemble myself, it would take me months, plus money in parts (degree wheel, etc). My machinist will assemble the entire short block for $200. Pretty fair, IMHO.
 
Econoline":39w62brc said:
Matthew68":39w62brc said:
Econoline":39w62brc said:
A race engine, not some kind of daily driver?

Eco - as in I’m going too overboard with the build for a daily?

Yeah. Maybe ;)

Sounds like a cool build. Thats alot of cam, with 110 lsa it's going to be a bit lumpy at idle. What trans are you running?

I debated that myself when I decided it’s time for a rebuild (after VI head purchase and low oil pressure issues). However, almost all of the “performance parts” are about the same cost as stock replacement parts. Pistons are the same price, rings, camshaft, etc all comes out even or +/- a few dollars.

I’ll be running a stock 68 C4. I have a T5 waiting, but I’m still slowly assembling the rest of the swap parts for that. I didn’t want to go to a cam that’s purely for the C4, only to have to pull the motor and drop another $200 an a cam suited more for the manual trans.
 
I should have highlighted:
"...It takes some concentration so a physical distraction can B frustrating...."
abt the cam degreeing.

After 33 yrs as a lill woods wrk truck I have the same dilemma. Mod w/5 speed & the 'new motor'
or wait till the C4 is in shape? It's been down longer then its ever been in these decades (not just the logging off season
but several) so I'll put the new tranny'n motor in at the same time. I may never get to the auto (I'll play w/it a lill B4 giving to my 22 y/o daughter. She has never driven a standard. We'll C how it goes...) in. On the outside chance she doesn't want the rig I'll sell it w/o the C4 install.
 
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