My Budget 250 build

Howdy Lavron and All:

May I respectfully suggest that you start a new topic as your posts evolve. There is a section for "Suspension" where folks would love to see what you've done. Just a thought.

Adios, David
 
You are right David I really didn't even think about it, I will try to keep my posts in here engine related from here on out.

See Ya,
Mike
 
CZLN6":evenuafl said:
Howdy Lavron and All:
May I respectfully suggest that you start a new topic as your posts evolve. There is a section for "Suspension" where folks would love to see what you've done. Just a thought.
Adios, David

Is there a "Build Thread" forum on here? This would B 1 I'd luv 2C take advantage of that type opportunity...
It would B nice (I know, an alternative to ur statement/idea/this forum's purpose) to have something like that.

May B on the new site Perry is in process of moving us to? May B here now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thnx~
 
Just an update I got my oil pan modification done to work with the M2 front suspension and steering rack, I am going to string a bunch of pictures here with short comments (I hope) on how I did it.

First you need a perfectly good 250 oil pan like this;
397d90563915e7d34fc8571e4963bce1.jpg


But before I start chopping this thing up, I need to measure a few things so I put the motor in with all the mounts and made this template that showed the minimum requirements for everything to fit.
7b5cf402dfb23265fba2b8e69f8ef43a.jpg


Then let the cutting begin.
a93f6e3cdb0e572a324a24f81cc2c1af.jpg


I left the rear section in the pan until all the welding was done BTW and cut it out near the end.

I reinstalled the cut pan and checked clearances again, looks good over the steering rack on each side.
aad59da2dfebb3668492ffe405234a33.jpg


I welded up a box and patchworked some heavier galvanized steel together that had leftover from building the shed (going to guess around 18 gauge, approx. 8"X2" C-channel)
c05988e6bed05b936f5fe4268e3d1bbd.jpg


I then welded all the added parts together separate from the original pan to avoid warping the pan as much as possible. I bolted the pan fully to the block and welded the added part onto the pan.
cad8074bec3a81080f5cab9fddcd40cd.jpg


I made a dipstick tube out of a piece of pre-flared 3/8" brake line from the auto parts store (12") I cut the flare off one end, made a tube to attach an inverted flare to 1/4"NPT adapter to out of a piece of scrap metal (tractor stabilizer bar) and a 1/4" NPT nut (from an old light fixture) welded to a heavy washer. I also added a couple of 1/2" NPT drain bungs.
6924dd57eaf2983cc1952461085cff19.jpg


At this point I unbolted the pan and gave a sigh of relief, it was not warped at all as far as I could tell, I cut the rest of the bottom out of the original pan and made some baffles and welded them inside the pan.
36b00fda7531e2cc5780f16fd90d1969.jpg


I then cleaned up all the welds, acid etched the pan and applied marine-tex epoxy to all the seams because I do not trust my welding to be leak free :roll:
24f0880d8bfc84242dbd1bb2aade369a.jpg


Then I sanded it down and added a little thin coat of JB Weld to some low spots (you know to make it smoother and prettier)
f45b4cd13e04d3488f64bb62332ae1a5.jpg


Next was a coat of POR15 to the entire pan.
49b935045db0b2d3b10193eb7f47b987.jpg


I have read, right or wrong, if you want to paint POR15 you need to fog it with primer or paint as soon as it flashes (if you want paint to stick), I may have missed that window but dusted it with primer anyway.
dc75e2a3ce68b7588ea72d908adb7336.jpg


And finally after that was dry I sprayed it with truck bed lining finishing it up.
3669d2c5d6444f57c85ab28e79634a4c.jpg


While I was waiting on paint to dry, etc. I went ahead and made the rear sump oil pick-up tube (or modified the original). I used a 9" piece of 3/4" tube, the original slipped snugly inside the pipe, and welded.
2a9397519f26ab6fe60ba4bff36480a5.jpg


I guessed on the stud mount main because I don't have the bolt yet, so I may be modifying the mount in the future when I finally track down a main bolt with a stud.

Everything fits fine and I have magnetic drain plugs on the way, so this little project is finished, I am about to run out of excuses for not taking this engine to the machine shop now.

See Ya,
Mike
 
how ja determine the p/u tube/screen 2 B 1/8 inch offa the 'floor' of the pan? I'm at that spot right now.

Gunna do somea da same ww/my 250 ina bronk - hope no change on dipstick tube or that radical 'woop de do' in the bottom profile of whole pan. I may need ta use a spare 250 to hold/weld 250 "ring" to 170 "pan" = my rear sump 250. Gotta avoid the frnt chunk ona 4WD rig. :nod:

Not sure I will need the long-run p/u tube, tryin the 170's (diameters different w/the 250?). Seen the 'support' offa the main's bolt'n wonder if I'll need that as well.

Blessings on those who go B4....
 
chad":btu7ix1o said:
how ja determine the p/u tube/screen 2 B 1/8 inch offa the 'floor' of the pan?

The rear sump is the same depth from the block as the original pan, I bolted the pump and unmodified pickup tube and measured the distance (right around 7") made a template to sit on the block pan mating surface and held it while I got everything lined up and tack welded, put the pan on and made sure everything fit still before removing it all and doing the final welding.

See Ya,
Mike
 
OK, cool, thnx!
may B4 I braze on the bottom 1/2 I'll treat it like a window & measure thru there,
Worried abt how much change of demention the heat will do to tube. Go slo'n correct if needed
like much else I guess.
 
chad":1lmx0gl5 said:
CZLN6":1lmx0gl5 said:
Howdy Lavron and All:
May I respectfully suggest that you start a new topic as your posts evolve. There is a section for "Suspension" where folks would love to see what you've done. Just a thought.
Adios, David

Is there a "Build Thread" forum on here? This would B 1 I'd luv 2C take advantage of that type opportunity...
It would B nice (I know, an alternative to ur statement/idea/this forum's purpose) to have something like that.

May B on the new site Perry is in process of moving us to? May B here now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thnx~

Yes there is a forum for Build Threads" that would be perfect to document your great Comet build up. It is located here viewforum.php?f=60

Since your Mercury Comet shares much with the Falcon's you could probally start one in the "Falcon Forum" or you could also make one in the "Other Forum" too. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
cool "Car Corral". Not sure I been there.
I wondered where build threads went on this site.
A tech forum ("144-250 "Small Block" Six Performance")
didn't seem 'just right' for them tho.

Would admin be movin the few here to their place on "Corral"?
If here (as some R) I think "the nxt guy" might see em & assume
"Here's the place" incorrectly...?

EDIT:
o0OP, I have been there. THATs where my messily "bronk w/a 250" is....
:shock:
:oops:
 
Good conversations, people.

Its all peoples personal preferences, and accommodating ideas on coathangers. The best idea on a great coathanger is the Falcon Six Handbook... (y) , so the advice above is important. For instance, if I'd done the Falcon Six Handbook, 90% of it would have been emissions and vac hookups, and then no-one would have bought it.... :banghead:


At a personal, individual opinion (very subjective thing for someone who gets offended easily).

Whenever someone does something simply stunning, someone decides the thread needs to be broken up. Thats okay, it's personal preference, is it not?

We aren't all the same.

IMHO, a sump is 90% engine related, 10% topography. (Evenly, 5%Chassis and then 5% Suspension, which impinge on the way the sump has to be front, middle or back pick-up, or dual hump with another pickup like a Fox or Late V8 Explorer).

Chassis and suspension are linked to the type of car. An Early Bronco is different to an X shell Uni body.

Problem is, dumping the elements of this thread might not go to Suspension, which is not well frequented. I found this from the Roundbody Falcon nest.

:unsure: As a note on all of this.....Mike, meet Rich.....

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78629
xctasy":2vlliusy said:
Seriously, you and lavron need to talk...

lavron":2vlliusy said:
......

The front is near finished as well, needs the upper bag mounts installed as well as the air bags.

ddbbd11a8fdd5aecf3b71f8d84df80a3.jpg


It is a Mustang 2 install I have cobbled together from various vendors.

Going to start mocking the 250 in there soon building motor and transmission (T5 from 96 Mustang) mounts and seeing how much I have to modify the oil pan, I think I can move the bottom of the pan up to 3.5" below the block surface and still clear all the rotating parts, it is going to be a tight fit for sure.

I actually have a build thread over on the Comet Central Forum and I can link to it if anyone wants to read it.

See Ya,
Mike
 
xctasy":34llddpn said:
As a note on all of this.....Mike, meet Rich.....

Thanks X, me and CobraGuy have met :p

I have a call in to a local machinist about boring my block, if that fails to pan out I will be looking at O'Reilly's as my only other choice, which is not so local. I talked to a local mechanic and he said talk directly to the O'Reilly machine shop and don't relay through the local parts store.

I am going to take my block, crank, rods, pistons and ARP rod bolts whichever way I end up going this time around, need the engine bored 20 over and I want them to look at the crank and see if it needs anything (hoping not) have then install the pistons on the rods and put the rod bolts in and finally check and see about decking the block to zero. For some reason this whole thing is making me nervous because I have to give up control to some big shop.

I am seriously considering the aluminum head even though this is a budget build, is it ready to bolt on with no machine work? Or will it have to be milled? It is a lot of money but I don't intend to ever do this motor again and not sure I want to sink money into my current head if eventually I was to get the aluminum head.

See Ya,
Mike
 
chad":2m1a9uof said:
Not sure I will need the long-run p/u tube, tryin the 170's (diameters different w/the 250?). Seen the 'support' offa the main's bolt'n wonder if I'll need that as well.

Chad sorry I missed that question, but the 250 and 170/200 oil pumps and pickup tubes are way different.

279e7abcebec42a09ef38fc8efe48d0b.jpg


I am not sure how different the Bronc tube is but I would think it would be really thin as well and of course they bolt in two different places.

See Ya,
Mike
 
that 2nd pic really helps Mike. I heard the p/u tubes were of diff diameters.
I'm gunna try what U have'n hope 1 will slide into the other or some other way to bridge 170's inside my 170/250 pan
.
This month will B "gettin into it". Only assume the braze together/sump swap is needed, will C when putting in 250/NV 3550. I've
heard there is some interference @ frnt chunk/motor's oil pan. Did put on 1 inch BL for this reason. Heard my SL (2 inch) can benefit here too (yeah?).

Thnx 4 da post-back~
:nod:
 
chad":1ne0ajvi said:
"...We aren't all the same...."
no? but wait:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

:idea:
:shock:
:oops:
:stick:

A rod of correction exists for the typical arguments. IMHO, Dividing and conquering isnt the way forward with 250 engine related posts.


images


The mutually exclusive truth, exceptions report argument.

I'm a Rogers & Hammerstien man, and reworking a 250 is like being s Fiddler on the Roof.

A difficult balancing act of Different Strokes for Different Folks. The 21 block differences of the 250 require delicate historonic research to avoid it hitting the long run iron.

Compression deck,
carb issues,
compression ratios,
cast iron rods,
ignition

and what happens to the rev range of a stroker engine constrain some choices, but the payoff is just like other orphan strokers like the 360 Mopar, 400 Ford, 351 Windsor and the 400 Chev. Those engines were crotchety to work, looked the same as the good 340's, 351 C, 302 W's and 350's but they were only heaps more responsive to the very narrow focus of right gear than the little versions.

Ak Miller managed the whole 250 engine with supreme simplicity.

Jahns pistons and triple carbs , forged rods, cams if it wad not a turbo, and if it was, a simple turbo with a better carb.

How we like this info conveyed is the issue. The 250 is a whole process of modifications that the Falcon Six book addresses brilliantly.Accessory drives, Sumps, Suspensions, steering linkages and engine mounts are always a 250 issue, and any time a readet has to go on an Easter Egg hunt for infomation by dividing it up into a multiple room survival quest for info, important purchasing info is lost

Examples are the 302 SBF timing gear and the BMC 1275 based Toyota 18R timing chain shared with the Holden 253/304/308/350.

That info was lost for 18 months until 2016 while the information wad partitioned.

The same with the 6" HSO Taurus conrods.All the posts had the dates incorrectky ordered, and that info got nested away.

Then the picture size limits, which I thumb nailed to ensure the board had acess to the pictures. The pictures were off accessory drives and details which now wont copy over in posts unless considerable time is spent.



These days, people only do strokers, and the aftermarket cater for specific combinations, and its only the US that caters for Ford Six cylinder parts. Overseas concerns are on the way out, and the USA just has to pick up the inventory and do the same job here.

Corporate USA can make good money on making parts for the specific and diverse needs of the 250, like the Pico River flash did when he made Ak Miller Enterprises the go to place for a 200 to 300 hp in line six.
 
drag-200stang":2bms9kh3 said:
You are doing great work, looks good.

Thanks.

Just to confirm, are the 250 and SBF (or which years/engines) main bolts the same size? I need a studded main bolt for my oil pump pick-up tube.

See Ya,
Mike
 
xctasy":311jkzp5 said:
See Bob the Buildes pictures

Can't see any of the pictures.

I really just need the one main bolt with the stud sticking out to hold my rear sump oil pickup tube like the SBF rear sump motors have.

See Ya,
Mike
 
Sorry Mike, Bobs only active picture log is the 97 item , 5 page cfyfairlane photobucket, so all the earlier pictures are no more.

Look at Mike1157's here or a Stangnet ( where he is CarMichealAngelo or Four Eyed Pride, where his posts are, but they aren't accessable except by "Gila Monster FourEyed Pride" google picture search.
 
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