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300 Rebuild

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Keystoner16
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300 Rebuild

Post #1 by Keystoner16 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:07 pm

Hello all,
I've been reading on this site for a while, and have posted a time or two.
Well, now I am finally getting around to rebuilding the 300 in my 1981 Econoline, and I have many questions.

I pulled the engine and trans this past weekend, and went straight into tear down. I actually removed the cylinder head while the engine was in the van to drop the weight, and give myself more room overhead (On accounta it's a van.)
Image

Image

First thing I did upon getting the engine onto the stand was drain the oil, and remove the oil pan, and sump.
I then checked the bearing clearances using plastigage, just to get an idea of where things were. (I realize plastigage is not the greatest compared to measuring and doing maths, but I don't have all those tools, yet. All the engines I have built previous are VW so the engine measuring stuff I have is small bore, and metric.)
Now, the factory workshop manual list bearing clearance spec for main, and conn rod bearings as...
Desired: .0008 - .0015 (Conn rod, and main bearing)
Allowable .0007 - .0024 (Conn rod)
Allowable .0010 - .0028 (Main bearing)
I could not find plastigage that went as small as .0008 and I did look. So, I used green which measures .001 to .003.
All of the conn rod clearances came out at .0015, which if I am understanding things is the outer limit of "ideal"
All of the main bearing clearances came out at .002, which if I am understanding things is outside "ideal" but still "allowable".

All of the conn rod bearings are stamped 010 which I am taking to mean that they are .010 undersize. CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.
They are also stamped with "FORD" logos so I'm thinking they could be the factory bearings from 1981. Not really that germane, but still pretty cool if true.
All of the main bearings are stamped 025 which I am not understanding as I have not seen .025 undersize bearings, so, I am looking for some insight here.
Here is a main bearing with the 025 outlined
Image

Also, the pistons are a style I have not seen before.
Image

Image

I have seen the "D" indented pistons, and the fully dished piston, but not these. Any insight an these piston and why this design was used is welcome.

Lastly, I notice that on the van the oil sump is mounted to the #5 main cap via a main cap bolt.
Image
I was planning on using ARP studs, so this is a bummer as ARP does have a provision for this setup.

That's it. I have just been cleaning everything while I deliberate on what comes next. The main thing that I am looking for insight on is the bearing clearances. If I were a rich man I would probably be looking to have everything machined and bearings fitted for the tightest possible clearance. I am not however, a rich man. I want to build the best and strongest engine I can spending money where it does the most good. Thanks for reading my post, and I look forward to any insights or advice,

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #2 by Max_Effort » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:54 pm

The main bearings are marked metric 0.25mm instead of .010” (same thing). The date is 07-07 or July 2007

So you have a crank that’s been ground 10/10. (.010” undersized rods and mains)

Engine was rebuilt around 2007 or after.

Your Main and rod bearing clearance is good, that’s tight enough!

Those are Ford 351 Cleveland dished pistons.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #3 by pmuller9 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:05 pm

The pistons look like a Silvolite 1159 which is a Ford 351C V8 piston.

The Ford 351C pistons have around a 1.6" compression distance. The 1159 piston has a CD of 1.630"
The Ford 300 six pistons use a CD just under 1.8" which puts the 351C pistons almost .200" deep in the cylinder at TDC and the compression ratio will be 7.5 at best.

The other curious thing is the 351C pistons use a .912" diameter pin while the 1969 and later 300 six connecting rods are set up for a .975" pin.
Either the connecting rods were swapped out for the 1965 to 1968 rods or the 1981 rods were bushed down to .912" or that is a 1965 to 1968 engine.
Check the engine block casting number down by the starter.

Also measure the cylinder bore at the top to see if the block has been bored.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #4 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:04 am

Keystoner16 wrote:I was planning on using ARP studs, so this is a bummer as ARP does have a provision for this setup.


I have built some high performance engines using the factory stud with the provision to hold the oil pump pickup in place with no issues.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #5 by Max_Effort » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:38 am

It will be interesting to see what rod it has and what pin size. If someone bushed the rods or bored the piston pin bores, that's a lot of work to use a poor choice of piston.

I think piston compression height difference between a 300-6 and 351C is around .110" stock, but with aftermarket rebuilder pistons it can be more.
So as Pmuller was writing, those pistons should be way down in the hole. (Unless it has a welded and stroked crank?).

Or it's not std journal size and has been offset ground...
Last edited by Max_Effort on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #6 by Max_Effort » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:44 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
Keystoner16 wrote:I was planning on using ARP studs, so this is a bummer as ARP does have a provision for this setup.


I have built some high performance engines using the factory stud with the provision to hold the oil pump pickup in place with no issues.


Factory stock main bolts are good. In most engines there is never a need to upgrade unless making some serious increases in power and RPM (or using a power adder i.e. Nitrous, turbo, blower)

If you upgrade to studs and the higher clamp load, it's almost certain that you'll need to have the block mains align honed. Unless it needs it align honing now, its just extra expense and can be problematic with a gear drive cam.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #7 by guhfluh » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:27 am

Would explain why they look so far down in the hole in the pics...unless it's just not at TDC. Maybe it was their way of keeping detonation at bay? LOL
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #8 by Keystoner16 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:33 pm

Thanks for the insights soo far.
Interesting about the pistons, but fits right in considering the van as a whole. I haven't yet sorted what went on with conn rods, etc, however to that point I took some photos of the casting numbers.
Image
D1AE - 8015 - CA

I do not have a dial bore gauge that will work for the this engine yet. I measured the top of a cylinder bore with a caliper, and got the measurement of 4.035.
Also, I started to remove the ridges from the cylinder with a cylinder ridge reamer, and it seems the cylinders are quite a bit out of round.The reamer didn't even touch in one place and was hard into the cylinder in another.

Perhaps now would be a good time to mention that this engine had low compression (in the area of 110psi across all cylinders) and would develop misfires during sustained highway travel. Came on like clock work after 20 miles on the Interstate, then came and went after that. You could drive around town all day without issue.

I have another engine that I got in trade. It is from an F-150 not sure of year. I'm wondering if this might not be a better, more cost effective candidate.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #9 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:08 am

Keystoner16 wrote:D1AE - 8015 - CA


DIAE-6015-CA

6015 is the base part number for the block.
To make casting numbers more legible I like to drag a flat file across the top of them.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #10 by pmuller9 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:01 am

The "D" indicates that the block is later than the 1960s "C" engines that had the .912" piston pin.
So the next question is what is the forging number on the connecting rods themselves?
It will be on the lower end of the rod beam.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:14 pm

That block casting number indicates a 1971 240 engine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #12 by Mdixon300f100 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:41 pm

Have you measured the stroke or the con rods to determine actual displacement?

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #13 by Keystoner16 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:24 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The "D" indicates that the block is later than the 1960s "C" engines that had the .912" piston pin.
So the next question is what is the forging number on the connecting rods themselves?
It will be on the lower end of the rod beam.


Here are pictures of the connecting rod (both sides)
Image
Image

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #14 by Keystoner16 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:26 pm

bubba22349 wrote:That block casting number indicates a 1971 240 engine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Thanks. I would love to know how you deciphered that, and how can I tell if I have a 240 head.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:59 pm

The mystery continues.
The C8TE is the later 300 connecting rod with the .975" pin.
Would you please measure the diameter of the piston pin in the piston.
Thanks

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #16 by Keystoner16 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:46 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The mystery continues.
The C8TE is the later 300 connecting rod with the .975" pin.
Would you please measure the diameter of the piston pin in the piston.
Thanks


The wrist pin measures just under 25mm, or .984"

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #17 by Keystoner16 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:52 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The mystery continues.
The C8TE is the later 300 connecting rod with the .975" pin.
Would you please measure the diameter of the piston pin in the piston.
Thanks


The wrist pin measures just under 25mm, or .984"

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #18 by pmuller9 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:58 pm

Keystoner16 wrote:The wrist pin measures just under 25mm, or .984"

Thanks
At this point I am not sure what pistons are in your engine but it doesn't matter since they will probably be replaced.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #19 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:27 pm

Keystoner16 wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:That block casting number indicates a 1971 240 engine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Thanks. I would love to know how you deciphered that, and how can I tell if I have a 240 head.

The third digit of a Ford part number indicates which vehicle line was the prime vehicle to use that component.
The digit that designates light truck is a "T".
The digit that designates full size Ford (Galaxie) is an "A".
So the prime vehicle for the block would be a Ford Galaxie.
The prime vehicle for the rod would be a light truck since the third digit is a "T", making it a 300.

HOWEVER, Just because the block had an "A" in it does not necessarily mean it was a 240, since at that time tha Ford may have been designated as the first vehicle to use that part. Example: 240 rods in a truck still have an "A" for the third digit.

Confused? Its complicated, but a far better system than the other two big three, which basically use random numbers for their parts.

Look at the underside of the head by the thermostat hole. If the third digit is a "D" then it is a 300 truck head, used only in light trucks, and vans, not passenger cars. If it is an "A" it is a 240 head it could have been used in either a passenger car or a light truck / van.
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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #20 by 68Flareside240 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:02 am

I agree FTF. People always talk about the confusing nature of Ford PNs, but they're the only ones you can discern any usable information from. My dad worked in Ford parts for almost 30 years, and that was 20 plus years ago, and he can still remember part numbers.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #21 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:09 am

Another useful point is that the basic part number for a specific component will always be the same regardless of engine. For example a head casting is -6049-. A cam is -6250-. So much so that the base number is often left out on the part itself. So a forged crank will have C6TE-G forged into it where the complete part number is C6TE-6303-G.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #22 by Keystoner16 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:58 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
Look at the underside of the head by the thermostat hole. If the third digit is a "D" then it is a 300 truck head, used only in light trucks, and vans, not passenger cars. If it is an "A" it is a 240 head it could have been used in either a passenger car or a light truck / van.


Image

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #23 by Keystoner16 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:59 pm

Keystoner16 wrote:
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
Look at the underside of the head by the thermostat hole. If the third digit is a "D" then it is a 300 truck head, used only in light trucks, and vans, not passenger cars. If it is an "A" it is a 240 head it could have been used in either a passenger car or a light truck / van.


Image


After further filing...

Image

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #24 by Keystoner16 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Unrelated: I'm not sure why I am getting all the duplicate posts, but I do apologize.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #25 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:33 am

Looks like maybe D2TE to me. Show us a pic of the chamber.
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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #26 by Keystoner16 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:52 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Looks like maybe D2TE to me. Show us a pic of the chamber.


Yes, sir.
Image

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #27 by 68Flareside240 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:41 pm

Appears to be a 300.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #28 by pmuller9 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:40 pm

You have a 300 with the 76 cc chamber head.
How would you like to proceed?
Stock rebuild or some added performance?

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #29 by Keystoner16 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:08 pm

pmuller9 wrote:You have a 300 with the 76 cc chamber head.
How would you like to proceed?
Stock rebuild or some added performance?


I'm thinking I would like to do a pretty mild build with some moderate performance gains if possible.
I would like to install a cam that would give me a little something more but nothing huge.
I was considering this one from Comp Cams
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-66-248-4

As I may have mentioned, the engine had low compression (109 psi) across all cylinders. It developed misfires that would come and go during extended highway driving, and averaged about 8 mpg. It was still pretty peppy considering, and moved the van off the line OK. It fell flat on it's face whenever it encountered an incline though, and in a headwind you could just about watch the fuel gauge drop.
I had already been running a Clifford intake, and EFI exhaust manifolds for a while when I finally got around to pulling it for this rebuild. I was running an Edelbrack Thunder AVS 500cfm carb, and I think I am going to need to play with jetting a little.

So, back to a rebuild plan. I want to use the best components. I was planning on Comp pushrods, and lifters as well. Probably end up using Sealed Power bearings, and pistons. I am not sure at this point, but I am thinking the block will need to be bored. If not, then I would be happy to use 4 inch pistons.

The head is any area where I know I need some expert advice. I am wanting to replace the valves, valve guides, and springs, but have no idea what to buy or where to buy it. I would also like to replace the rocker studs with the screw in type, but again, a little lost as to process, or if I would even need to. I am someone who likes to overbuild things. I don't think I want to replace the rockers unless something else in my build plan dictates a need. I mean I would like to, but money is not endless so I'm trying to save some. Open to thoughts and ideas. I am also planning to port the head a small amount. Just enough to "gasket match" everything.

In conclusion, I would like a little more power, and reliability if possible. Also, if I can get the mpg up that would be really great. I think 12mpg would have me really happy. As always, I welcome insights and info. If my whole plan is stupid then I want to know that. Thanks.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #30 by pmuller9 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:49 pm

The Comp 268 cam has low enough valve lift where you can use the stock rocker arms but long enough duration to give you a wide working power band from an idle.
It is recommended to limit the compression ratio to 8.8 with the Comp 268 cam if you want to run 87 octane pump gas.

If you are measuring the bore at roughly 4.035", the cylinders may already be bored to 4.040" which may require a 4.060" bore to clean up the walls.
You will need to measure the cylinder walls first to see if this block will handle another overbore.
The Sealed Power pistons with a "D" dish can provide an 8.8 compression ratio if the block deck is cut for zero piston to block clearance.

If you are staying with the stock size valves then just do a valve job using the valves that are there if they are good.
If you want to replace the valves then go larger to a 1.94" intake and 1.60" exhaust.
SI valves have the stock size and oversize valves in the stock 4.810" length.

Screw in studs is a good insurance with the extra valve lift and additional spring pressure.
Your head may have the 5/16" thread, non adjustable rocker studs which you would want to replace.
Drilling and tapping the head for screw in studs is best done in a milling machine so the studs are in line and all at the same angle.

Porting a 300 six head DOES NOT include port matching or removing a lot of material off the port walls.
Most of the work is done in the bowl area and around the valve guides.
If you go with larger valves then it is matter of blending the larger throat into the bowl.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #31 by Max_Effort » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:14 pm

I'd go with a different cam than the comp. If your looking for economy with increased power, I'll suggest the Erson E270101. For a little more power and rpm, the Erson E270121.

Or I'd have Jones Cams grind a custom. Erson will also grind a custom.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #32 by bubba22349 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:37 pm

I am thinking about the pistion chooice that was used to rebuild your 300 short block in its past this may be why your compression was so low they seem to be setting pretty far down the hole. What's the piston compression height compared to a stock type 300 pistons? I think that a stock 351C Piston has a 1.651 compression height and that a stock 300 Piston measures 1.740 that's .089 difference down the hole. Now depending on if your block has had any decking done from its orginal 10.00 height this would account for quite a loss of compression from that of a stock 300 six'es 8.5 to 1 ratio. In any case in my opinion those 351C Pistions seem like they were a very odd choice to be considered for use with the stock length 300 connecting rods in a 300 short block rebuild. Good luck on your build your outlined plan should give you a much better engine combo for use in your truck. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #33 by MechRick » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:43 pm

I wonder if those pistons are 351m-400? The pin size would work with late rods. Not sure on the comp height though.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
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http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #34 by xctasy » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:47 pm

All Canted Valve small blocks Fords:-

The 302 Cleveland ,
302 Boss, 351 Cleveland, 351 Boss
and 400 had a 1.647" piston compression height.

They were all 16 thou into the hole, but the block could be 8.206 Windsor based Boss 302, 9.206 (Cleveland 302/351), or 10.306 (Modified 351 or 400 Ford).

The 351 M was a 400 block engine with a logner con rods. No exception top the 1.647 rule.

Ford adjusted conrod length to suit the engine capacity, and the dome or dish as well.

If the pistons are 351M, That puts the pistons way, way down in 153 thou into the hole.

With a 10" tall block with a 6.21" rod and a 3.98" stroke, the stock piston should have been 1.800" compression to get a zero deck, but Ford created a short fall of 22 to 33 thou. 1.788 early engines, 1.767 for Hypre pistojs after 1994, and aftermarket, normally 1.776, a 24 thou shortfall.

Often, the 240/300/4.9 blocks come in at over 10.000".
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #35 by Keystoner16 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:46 am

bubba22349 wrote:I am thinking about the pistion chooice that was used to rebuild your 300 short block in its past this may be why your compression was so low they seem to be setting pretty far down the hole. What's the piston compression height compared to a stock type 300 pistons? I think that a stock 351C Piston has a 1.651 compression height and that a stock 300 Piston measures 1.740 that's .089 difference down the hole. Now depending on if your block has had any decking done from its orginal 10.00 height this would account for quite a loss of compression from that of a stock 300 six'es 8.5 to 1 ratio. In any case in my opinion those 351C Pistions seem like they were a very odd choice to be considered for use with the stock length 300 connecting rods in a 300 short block rebuild. Good luck on your build your outlined plan should give you a much better engine combo for use in your truck. :thumbup: :nod:


I measured the compression height of the pistons in question to be 42mm (give or take), converted to inches comes to 1.65.
OD of piston measured 4 inches.
The deck measures at 10 inches exactly.

I have no idea what may have occurred, but nothing would surprise me as whoever owned this van before me did not one single thing correct as far as I can tell. It was cheapest, and easiest every single time.

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Keystoner16
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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #36 by Keystoner16 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:50 pm

Max_Effort wrote:I'd go with a different cam than the comp. If your looking for economy with increased power, I'll suggest the Erson E270101. For a little more power and rpm, the Erson E270121.

Or I'd have Jones Cams grind a custom. Erson will also grind a custom.


The Erson seems like a good option. I am wondering how it fits with the rest of the components I plan to use. Would I have to change anything? Also, I notice it is is out of stock on their website, will definitely give them a call though.

Also, I am wondering about these pistons from Sealed Power
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp- ... /make/ford

Will these allow me to use 87 gas, as the D cup pistons are expected to do??

I am currently working on rebuilding the T170 transmission that was bolted to the 300 in the van, however, I am wanting to get the block into the machine shop soon, and they are going to want the cam with it for the purpose of fitting the cam bearings. So, I'll need to get that coming fairly soon.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #37 by pmuller9 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:57 pm

The Erson E270121 (TQ20H) cam will let you easily run 87 octane pump gas with an 8.8 compression ratio and the valve lift is still low enough so you can use the stock rocker arms

The round dish Sealed Power piston will drop the compression ratio into the lower 8s which is too low.
Stay with the "D" dish and machine the block deck to get the piston close to zero piston to deck clearance which will get you near an 8.8 compression ratio.

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Keystoner16
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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #38 by Keystoner16 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:10 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The Erson E270121 (TQ20H) cam will let you easily run 87 octane pump gas with an 8.8 compression ratio and the valve lift is still low enough so you can use the stock rocker arms

The round dish Sealed Power piston will drop the compression ratio into the lower 8s which is too low.
Stay with the "D" dish and machine the block deck to get the piston close to zero piston to deck clearance which will get you near an 8.8 compression ratio.


Sounds great. Thank you for the quick feedback. :thumbup:

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #39 by Keystoner16 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:44 pm

Hello All.
Just wanted to make a quick post in hopes of not being forgotten. It has been a while but I am making progress. I think. Maybe.
I have ordered and received my cam. Ended up getting the Erson E270101.
Spent a week in PA over Labor Day, but I am back in OR now and looking to get things going again. The block is going to the machine shop this Thursday AM.
Work list so far is:
-Removal of seized plug from block drain
-New cam bearings installed
-Deck resurfaced
-Checking cylinder bores for wear/out of round
-Boring cylinders if needed/possible
-Cleaning block/hot tank

I will obviously have them check the cylinders before proceeding with other work.
If I'm missing anything, please let me know.
Thanks very much.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #40 by Keystoner16 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:37 pm

Ok, so the block, cam, and conn rods are all at the machine shop.
The shop will be doing a block prep package which includes extensive cleaning, magnafluxing the block for crack detection, flushing of oil/coolant passages, installing cam bearings, resurfacing the deck, and boring cylinders. Not sure what the cylinders will end up at yet. They will be measuring, and let me know what is required. I said I wanted as little material as possible removed.

One question regarding pistons.
At the shop they are attempting to sell me what they are calling "UPS" pistons. These are apparently pistons that were made specifically for UPS by Silv-o-lite. They told me they have a specific shape which improves the squish area. All that sounds good enough, but $216 for six pistons is a little bit more than I can comfortably afford. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with this piston.
Pretty sure these are the ones, found at Summit.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem- ... /make/ford
The guy also said, "Sealed power is a shitty piston that's made in India." So there's that.

Really appreciate ant insights or info on those pistons. Thanks.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #41 by Fordman75 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:55 pm

I might be wrong, usually am. I seem to remember the "UPS" pistons had a shorter compression height along with the smaller dish. I might be thinking about the HD pistons. Just make sure to check the compression height of the pistons before buying them. A shorter piston, with the same stroke and rod length, is going to lower compression and hurt quench.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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MechRick
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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #42 by MechRick » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Last time I dropped a block at the machine shop with KB pistons he quipped "oh, you want to install 'made in Mexico' pistons?"

I've used both brands, the Sealed Power pistons were better weight-matched than the KB-performance ones I used on a previous build. The Silvolites are a cheap rebuilder piston. Aside from the piston head shape, they likely have the same durability.

You do want to pay attention to quench with the carb head. Also how far down in the hole the piston ends up.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #43 by pmuller9 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:08 pm

Keystoner16 wrote:At the shop they are attempting to sell me what they are calling "UPS" pistons. These are apparently pistons that were made specifically for UPS by Silv-o-lite. They told me they have a specific shape which improves the squish area. All that sounds good enough, but $216 for six pistons is a little bit more than I can comfortably afford. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with this piston.
Pretty sure these are the ones, found at Summit.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem- ... /make/ford
The guy also said, "Sealed power is a shitty piston that's made in India." So there's that.

Both the Silvolite 3117H and 3118H pistons that you posted have both a step and a dish that have a minimum 25cc volume that will give you a low compression even at zero deck.
The highest compression piston is the Silv0lite 1186H which has around a 22cc dish volume and a 1.776" Compression Height so the block deck doesn't need to be machined much to get zero deck.
They are also a "D" dish so there is plenty of quench.
All for a $130
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem- ... /make/ford

With the standard 76cc combustion chamber and the piston at zero deck the compression is around 8.8

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #44 by Keystoner16 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:35 pm

Well, heck. Last week the machine shop informed me that my block is junk. According to them the cylinders could not be machined any further. Sooo, I just took them another block today. This one came from a truck as evidenced by the dipstick arrangement, and oil pan. I didn't want to use it as the block casting is pretty bad. It just looks ugly, and the casting numbers are not even visable. Anyway, hopefully it will be workable. This block did have proper pistons installed, and they were stamped "4.0" on the top, so I'm hopeful that not much if any boring will be needed. They will be letting me know, and I will be supplying pistons. I will post more info when I have it. I feel like this is taking forever.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #45 by Fordman75 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:40 pm

I have a bad feeling your new block is probably .040" over already. Usually a standard bore piston won't have any #'s on them.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #46 by Keystoner16 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:12 pm

Fordman75 wrote:I have a bad feeling your new block is probably .040" over already. Usually a standard bore piston won't have any #'s on them.


Hmm. I guess time will tell. Have all these blocks been beat to heck, or is it just all the ones I can find??

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #47 by Mdixon300f100 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm

Keystoner16 wrote:
Fordman75 wrote:I have a bad feeling your new block is probably .040" over already. Usually a standard bore piston won't have any #'s on them.


Hmm. I guess time will tell. Have all these blocks been beat to heck, or is it just all the ones I can find??


I can’t find blocks to start with. Between 09-12 scrap was at an all time high here, huge stockpiles of salvage yards were cleared out for iron prices. All the old rusty f series trucks with broken frames and rotten bodies, and I’d bet factory bore, rebuildable cores, went with them.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #48 by Keystoner16 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:39 am

Mdixon300f100 wrote:
Keystoner16 wrote:
Fordman75 wrote:I have a bad feeling your new block is probably .040" over already. Usually a standard bore piston won't have any #'s on them.


Hmm. I guess time will tell. Have all these blocks been beat to heck, or is it just all the ones I can find??


I can’t find blocks to start with. Between 09-12 scrap was at an all time high here, huge stockpiles of salvage yards were cleared out for iron prices. All the old rusty f series trucks with broken frames and rotten bodies, and I’d bet factory bore, rebuildable cores, went with them.


Not a problem here in OR. Over the weekend while at the PicknPull up by Portland, I observed several 300s in various vehicles. There are also a few available locally at any given time online...

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #49 by Keystoner16 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:12 pm

More from the machine shop.
They are telling my connecting rod big ends are out of round and need to be "re-conned". When I asked how far out of round I they said "half a thousandth, both ways". I am confused here, because the factory manual lists the connecting rod maximum out of round as .0006. Half a thousandth would be .0005.
Are these guys just trying to sell me stuff, or am I missing something??

I told them I am not approving any work until I know if my block is OK.

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Re: 300 Rebuild

Post #50 by old28racer » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:10 pm

Smart move, because if you have to go .060 over to clean the bores you may not have the cylinder wall thickness for it to work. I think .030 overbore is the normal max for a 300 block. Like you said don't waste money on a junk block. Your list of new engine parts sounds real good, good building.
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