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200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

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Harlon
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200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #1 by Harlon » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:43 pm

Attached are photos of a an EOBE cylinder head that is being sold in my localish area. Guy is selling this head with a number of other items. I have a 79 200 in my car, I’m looking to do the machine work from the manual to my cylinder head this fall. With the extras; cam, carb, HEI distributeor it seems like a viable shortcut.

I have no experience as to what a well machined head should look like. Can the forum experts please take a look and tell me if this at least looks good.

Specifically the 2 barrel carb flange, the valves, retainers, chambers and the valve train.

At least visually it looks to me that the rockers and valves don’t fit properly. The tips don’t line up with the centers of the valves or cups with the pushrod holes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:44 pm

:beer: congrats that head looks great to me! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #3 by Harlon » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:41 pm

I got the build sheet-ish for the head. I can’t convert to an image or I would add it here.

Only significant question: build sheet says that it is machined .040 to compensate for thicker modern cylinder head gaskets. Checking my book to maximize compression ratios it should be machined .075 (I think).

Deal breaker, or?

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:56 pm

I don't think so as it Shouldn't be all that much to have head resurfaced some more compared to starting from fresh by having the 2V plate installed, valve job, and surfacing. You could take a picture of the sheet and then post it. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #5 by Econoline » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:25 pm

You have you measure your engine after he head is off to know for sure how much to mill. .040" is a good start and more than compensates for the new gasket difference. If that head was here and hadn't been milled other than a clean up pass and was for a reasonable price I'd buy it in a heartbeat for my 250 if I knew it had been magnafluxed and I couldn't see any cracks. Esp around the center, 3 & 4, exhaust valve seats. It looks like they did a good job with the 2v from the pics. They did shift it fwd quite a bit and it looks like there's alot of the old mount blocking the fwd port. We know why they did that b/c there's not alot of meat aft and the 2300 flange is huge compared to the 1v. But it seems like that may be an impedance to flow on that fwd port.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #6 by JackFish » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:10 am

Yeah some of those rockers look weird.
Perhaps they can be pushed into alignment?
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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #7 by drag-200stang » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:36 am

It looks like a very nice modded head to me as long as there is no cracks.
The placement of the adapter is good and you could blend the old bolt boss if you wanted to.
66 Mustang Coupe
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Fresh Head Additions/Opinions B4 assembly

Post #8 by chad » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:13 am

"...Esp around the center, 3 & 4, exhaust valve seats. It looks like they did a good job with the 2v..."
agreed.

U could add the exh port divider if going 'tubes', 'pipes', 'headers'. It maintains the gasket'n directs the gasses better than w/o. 0 - minor HP/tq addition.

Thanks, for the picture.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #9 by Econoline » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:26 am

JackFish wrote:Yeah some of those rockers look weird.
Perhaps they can be pushed into alignment?


Some of them are tipped back
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #10 by StarDiero75 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 pm

Right on man! Looks like you're set up for a weber. I set mine up for a holley/autolite on my E0 head.

What did the guy do for a cover for the EGR part of the intake? Thats where mine has the aluminum plate on the side
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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #11 by Harlon » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:10 pm

If all goes well with the exchange I should be purchasing the head sometime next week.

The seller and I are in different locales. He has a coworker who lives about forty minutes from me who has agreed to make the exchange.

Hopefully things won’t get funny having to use a go between. But the seller is closer to 4 hours from me and I just can’t work that out with my work and family responsibilities.

The head is supposed to be modded for a Holley/autolite 2100? I think.

The spec sheet says the builder selects uncracked heads and that they are hot tanked and magnafluxed.

Not sure about the egr, I haven’t seen that angle of the head.

Thanks,
Harlon

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Additional Opinions on Fresh Head

Post #12 by chad » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:00 pm

...spec sheet says the builder..."
get that info if U can (could B w/in 1 of 10 states). Others may B interested in contacting the shop,
glad U got it for ur own info. May not still B around (no info on when done) but worth a try...
:thumbup:
Last edited by chad on Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #13 by wsa111 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:35 pm

If you can translate what Chad stated, it would be beneficial to get the spec sheet on the head.
If your 200 block is zero decked & with the head combustion chamber cc's @ 50 & with the small dished piston's you will have close to 9.5 compression.
The carb adapter is very nice, being machined at the correct angle to keep the carb level.
Sadly installing the exhaust divider in with all the machine work done, reheating the head would be taboo
for all the previous machine work.
Normally it takes a .070' to get that head down to close to 50 cc's.
Wish you the best.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #14 by Soldmy66 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:48 pm

wsa111 wrote:If you can translate what Chad stated ...


I am not sure that is possible or at least likely. I never can.

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Additional Options on Fresh Head

Post #15 by chad » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:18 pm

"...installing the exhaust divider in with all the machine work done, reheating..."
other ways rather than 'reheat"

"can't read'em"
sorry, only one w/a learning disability? nah...I see plenty 'poor penmenship', spelling, 'sentence structure' here...
tryin to pull back but U guys have such interestin projects 4 me to follow, thnx!...
:oops:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #16 by Harlon » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:50 pm

Among other things, one of the first things I plan on doing is ccing the chambers.

Got to read up on how to go about doing that though.

The block is a 79 200. Untouched as far as I know. I’ll find out when I get the head off. I planned on pulling the head and having it machined this winter. With my budget I was probably only going to have the shop do the valves and .070 machining. Clean up what I could with my dremel. Then this head fell in my lap.

In another life I was an English major in college. I’d call Chads writing style “local color.” I love it. It gets a bit thick at times. But still luvit!

I think the builder is out west somewhere. I’ve seen his stuff on eBay before. Fingers crossed and I’ll know next week.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #17 by xctasy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:18 am

Chad rocks.

See
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74545&p=574268&hilit=200+head#p574268

Buying used has risks, and results vary. Blaming others for collatoral damage can happen if a head gets cracked due to "life".

Hotvega 73 and his daughter Jeni Jones have fine reputations, but anything can happen. Two black marks from 2005 to date that Ive found. My first adaptor from New Zealand ended up being used on my own vehicle because I took too long to get my act together, so I refunded 64 Ecconoline. Thats called respect when you screw up.

When someone does you wrong, talk with them, and make sure you aren't including other attendant risks.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #18 by Harlon » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 pm

X,

From what I can tell that is the same builder for this head.

I’m going to buy it either way as the price gets me to far down the road to pass up.

Question though is: in one of the builders posts in that thread it says if the head is machined the bronze holding in the hard seats will melt and the seats will fall out. Does that mean I will be limited to the .040 machining it has currently/ I won’t be able to have anything additional milled off to get the chamber size where I’d like it without damaging the valve seats?

Thanks,
Harlon

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Head Machining Opinions

Post #19 by chad » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:55 pm

You can do a mill pass after mill pass w/o a cutter touching the valves (as if truing the mating surface)

(Mine, on a different note, had a 6 piece vertical miller (like 6 bridgeports) that did "averaging'. All the CC's were milled at once to the same depth)...

cc the head to see where your is at. Then U start w/a known.
Last edited by chad on Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #20 by wsa111 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:02 pm

That is a high tech CNC process.
Another option if you need to do the valve seats as well is the use of a Serta machine not only to do all the valve seating, but also the combustion chamber area by the valve.
Chad used a high tech approch which is perfection.
I had the Serta deal used to relieve the shrouding of the chamber wall on the intake.
Really helped the flow.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #21 by drag-200stang » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:11 am

Harlon wrote:X,

From what I can tell that is the same builder for this head.

I’m going to buy it either way as the price gets me to far down the road to pass up.

Question though is: in one of the builders posts in that thread it says if the head is machined the bronze holding in the hard seats will melt and the seats will fall out. Does that mean I will be limited to the .040 machining it has currently/ I won’t be able to have anything additional milled off to get the chamber size where I’d like it without damaging the valve seats?

Thanks,
Harlon

I believe what he is talking about is, if you give him a head that has been rebuilt with hard seats, they will fall out when he furnace brazes on the adapter.
You should be good to mill the head or machine what ever.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Further Head Machining Opinions

Post #22 by chad » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:36 am

prt of the job is dissasembly, reassembly (negotiate).
If U have no valve spring tool - local big box stores 'rent for free' or loan.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #23 by Harlon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:34 pm

I ended up having to pass on the head I was talking about. Below is the address from Craigslist.

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva ... 53258.html

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #24 by bubba22349 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:35 pm

That looks to be an excellent deal for all those items and the head. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #25 by Harlon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:50 pm

Yeap, kicking myself that I couldn’t pull the trigger on it.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #26 by xctasy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:59 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:Right on man! Looks like you're set up for a weber. I set mine up for a holley/autolite on my E0 head.


What did the guy do for a cover for the EGR part of the intake? Thats where mine has the aluminum plate on the side

Image

Image




In non emissions places like UK and New Zealand, its normally done like this with a steel plate, two bolts. The hole is still open here, this is a plate spacer.

Image

Factory late model replacements have the EGR hole Allen key/Cap screw plugged.

The B VIN code E0 casting head was used late in the D9 model year on some T codes...Ford were planning and like the 1965 IRS suspension Mustang, even documented a 2BBL 3.3 for 1979, but opted to do a 255 2-bbl 120 hp V8 for 1980 instead.


this item below an XE stamped factory 100% correct experimental head with the eventual E0 spec 2-bbl EGR and casting variations planned. Everything has Fords engineering numbers etched in. Dead easy to block off the EGR.

Image
Last edited by xctasy on Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #27 by StarDiero75 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:02 pm

xctasy wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:Right on man! Looks like you're set up for a weber. I set mine up for a holley/autolite on my E0 head.


What did the guy do for a cover for the EGR part of the intake? Thats where mine has the aluminum plate on the side

Image

Image




Normally, its done like this.

Image

Factory late model replacements have the EGR hole Allen key/Cap screw plugged. The B VIN code E0 casting head was used late in the D9 model year on some T codes

They make a plug for it? I can't thread mine since the clearance is pretty slim between the top of the hole to the carb adapter mounting surface. I think I'm looking at .070, and i don't feel comfortable tapping that. Unless its tapped in...
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #28 by xctasy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:15 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77253&p=594656&hilit=e0+head#p594656

xctasy wrote:
ponikorjaamo's EGR was blanked off

Image

So they
1. swapped the postion of the vacuum tee, and

2. got the integrated EGR port which was another reason why the volume increased.

3. The casting was optimised to suit the emissions targets, and the first changes were the two mods above.



[code][/code]

For 1980 to 1983, man vac (Item 17 on my VECI list) is on a hex port, capped off with a hex grub screw in 1bad6t's photos

http://1bad6t.com/Extra2/14-E-BE-BB.jpg

http://1bad6t.com/Extra2/intake-boss.jpg
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #29 by xctasy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:24 pm

1. Blank off the EGR by removing the whole valve, and place one of these hand made metal plates over it. Use the existing gasket as a template to seal it.

Image

Image


This how the 1976 yo 2004 New Zealand market Australian 3.3 and 4.1 liter cars with EGR were "de-emissionised"


For service items that weren't used in full emissions cars, Ford US supplied Allen Key/Hex headed "grub screws" to cover up non functional manifold vacuum ports.


Like Ford New Zealand did

Image

These come in various sizes, and you can use them if you wish.



Here is the brilliant Luke76 (He has sensational write ups on the emissions parts for his F150 truck, 1980 258 AMC Jeep), and who has a Granada with 250 engine, same cylinder head. The vacuum tee is capped off like .

His pictures don't link know tho....

Image
Other side of the engine, also down to bare metal, ready for paint.


Image
Engine after applying a coat of POR 15, then a second coat of engine enamel (the color coat). I still need to paint the top of my dipstick white. I didn't paint the head because it is going to be replaced anyway.


Image
One of the many accessory brackets as it came off the engine.


Image
Same bracket, cleaned, treated, and painted.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #30 by xctasy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:39 pm

This is 1bad6t's, from the Maverick forum, saved on the FEP Emissions calibration pages.

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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StarDiero75
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Re: 200 Cylinder Head Machining Opinions

Post #31 by StarDiero75 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:47 am

I made me a hand made plate out of aluminum. The problem is that when i milled for the 2bbl, i had to go down pretty far to get a decent sealing surface. Which gave me a super thin area from the milled surface on the log to the EGR port. I think its about 70 thousandths in gap between the 2. Should that be an issue sealing it? Or am I better off JB welding a plug in there or something? Or just use a cut my own paper gasket stuff?

I was thinking about drilling a hole and tapping my plate for .25" NPT so i could have another vacuum port rather just the one on top of the log. I might add power brakes in the future and figured it'd be nice to have that option.
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chad
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200 Cylinder Head (LOG) Machining Opinions

Post #32 by chad » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:23 pm

if there's enuff 'meat' (area frm 'hole' up to newly milled surface for carb/adapter) obviously go fer a plug system.
Plenty of cutting fluid'n a nice tap, back'n frth rather than just straight powerin thru, make straight enuff to put sompin in that will not B crooked'n hit adapter. Plan the 4 or 6 point head so as 2 B able to wrench. But some planning 1st.

One of the rules on machinin is "sequence of operations'. Lota of planning 1st, Do Not pick up the tools B4 the whole
system is figured out. This would have been a 1st not last step. Anyway, there's wrk-a-rounds (may B).

The planning here is "What sz hole/treads do I need for what sz plug such that I can remove later'n insert a useful tap/nipple?"
"PPPP" is it: proper planning prior to production?
Again, Y go thru alota head skratchin after (& may B no solution) after when it wrks beddah B4?
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