200 to 250 Swap - Bell Housing

Georgia200

Well-known member
Im collecting parts for the swap and am a bit confused as to how the engine, C4 and starter come together.

Im not sure what C4 I have. I have a receipt from the PO that states that a reman C4 was installed by a local tranny shop. I crawled under the car and didnt see a tag anywhere on the transmission.

Lacking a tag, how do I determine what tranny I have?

I have a RF-D7DP-7976-AA bell. I think thats for 78-80 250 and 302, case fill.

Does this bell use a 157 or 164 tooth flexplate?

RockAuto lists both 157 tooth - 13.3" diameter flex plates and 164 tooth - 14.23 diameter flexplates for 250 sixes.

Im hoping to use the 164 tooth flexplate so I can use a 3.8 starter.
 
Look for the ID tag mounted to the passenger side Servo cover. Generally if the C4 is a case fill then it uses a 157 tooth flex plate and if it's a Pan fill C4 (most used in pick up truck use and also some of the big Ford cars like the Galxie) these will all use the 164 tooth fex plate. Good luck (y) :unsure:
 
Ive been online all day researching this.

My C4 is a case fill and Im guessing it is a 24 spline. I will not know for sure, until I pull it.

I gather my D7DP-7976-AA bell for a 157 tooth flex plate

Rock Auto has a 157 tooth zero balance flex plate for a 69 Mustang 250.

Orielys has a ProKing torque converter for a 69 Mustang 250 for $70 + $40 core.

I will also need a block plate and hardware.

Any idea where I can find the hardware sizes?
 
"...Any idea where I can find the hardware sizes?..."
I all ways hit up Matt at vintage inlines dot com as he caters to us (wish to support him back).
He makes it easy as he knows these motors/vehicles.

U mention 2 box box auto retailers, autozone has the 'Help' section (pegboard, blow plastic green/yellow/red cards) full of them. :nod:
Gunna use a block plate? Got 1?
 
Not a lot of traffic here anymore. Are there fewer and fewer people building sixes as the years go by? Its been almost 40 years since a Falcon Six was in a new Ford.
 
D7DP-7976-AA is a 164 tooth type bell. You can't use a 157 tooth flexplate with it or the starter teeth won't mesh. Block plate size is dependent on tooth count also. Starter should work fine as all small block pattern automatic starters are interchangeable.
 
"...fewer and fewer people building sixes as the years go by? Its been almost 40 years since a Falcon Six was in a new Ford."
viewforum.php?f=22
viewforum.php?f=51
viewforum.php?f=48
Barret Jackson et al
Millions of $ SEMA stang, other ford i6
last fall bronks ('66 -'77) hit #1 in sales at $
:nono:
I believe ur "no interest" is simply your belief and not actual fact. Yes there R few ppl in USA who have them (collectors age out'n die, metal rusts out & returns to the earth, etc but the earth is getting further frm the sun too).
BTW the figure is "24 yrs" (1996) not 40. fomoco went efi w/them too...

Them's fightin wrds ! Put up yer dukes ! :devilish:
 
perfect example - "Viper" (post #6 above) regesters his 1st post - has never been here B4 yet is well known thru out the bronk world
as a pretty good (oh, alright, moderately good) guy, one who messes w/the falcon motor very lill, but now appears here - the i6 site !
(y)
Yo, Viperwolf:
W E L C O M E !!!
hope U enjoy ur stay !
 
Georgia200":fsj92rn4 said:
Not a lot of traffic here anymore. Are there fewer and fewer people building sixes as the years go by? Its been almost 40 years since a Falcon Six was in a new Ford.

We do get lots of Visitor / Guest traffic and a few new members each week as these guests and occasionally an old member returns. Yes there maybe fewer and fewer people building six'es the supply of cars and small pickups may be limited now and lots of them are getting converted to V8's, as well unfortunately of so many that got crushed in the last decade during the "cash for clunkers" program. Personally I have been hunting for a project car and a six to build most that I see in my area are out of reach to me financially. (y) :nod:
 
Georgia200":1l0thak4 said:
The 82 Granada and 82 Mustang 83 Fairmont were the last 250/200s that Ford put in cars in the U.S. Thats 38/37 years ago.

Ive been picking up odds and ends as I find them, pretty unusual around here to find one in a JY.

The link shows that the D7DP-7976-AA bell is for a 157 tooth flexplate. Is that incorrect?

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/d ... ansmission

Yes that's a long time ago, however because of their amazing durability many are still around. Yes that C4 bell would be for a 157 tooth flex plate, it should look like the one in the below link. This will fit your 250 block perfectly and bolt up to a case fill C4, did you also get the 6 bolt block plate that mounts behind it? Good luck (y) :nod:

D7DP-7976-AA C4 Bell for a 6 Bolt Block mid 65 289, all 302's, and 250's and many others.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-82-Ford-M ... noapp=true
 
Yep, thats my bell, except that one is nicer than the one I have.

I didnt get the block plate. The 74 Comet 250 I bought didnt have them, the 250 short block didnt have them either, I was at the pull-a-part today and there were three Windsors in the whole yard, they had been picked clean. All I got was the standoff for the oil pressure sender, Ive been needing one of those for my 289. No sixes, not even a 300 in a F150.

What I hate about the pull-a-part is that inconsiderate people destroy many good parts trying to remove parts they want. 2 block plates bent, 351W crank lying in the gravel, brackets and pulleys all over the place. Such a waste.

Im going to have to send my dampner in for a rebuild, I cant find a decent used one, mine is in pieces. The one I have is a three groove, I only need a two groove, hate to waste a groove when I dont need it.

Ive got a line on a JY with a couple 250s, I also need an oil pan.
 
damper doctor if you REALLY wanna rebuild it (he's on the net).
We havea cross ref chart for pulleys (I'don't C 1 for dampners).

I love the dual topic post:
"...The 82 Granada and 82 Mustang 83 Fairmont were the last ..."
the fox LTD also had'em (1 yr only). 1K member for the bent8, 4 cyl & bent6, another got the i6 I believe...
 
I had a 82 Capri with a 200. AT, PS, AC, pretty loaded car. I should have kept it. I traded it for a CJ5.

Classic Inlines hasnt had 250 push rods in ages. I need ball and ball, any idea who else carries them?

Are 200/250 lifters the same as 302 lifters?
 
Classic Inlines hasnt had 250 push rods in ages. I need ball and ball, any idea who else carries them?

Rocker Arms Unlimited has made custom length adjustable rocker PR's for my 250 projects. ( 'nice guys too ,,,)

http://www.rockerarms.com/

have fun


 
Georgia200":2chmzu03 said:
The 82 Granada and 82 Mustang 83 Fairmont were the last 250/200s that Ford put in cars in the U.S. Thats 38/37 years ago.

Ive been picking up odds and ends as I find them, pretty unusual around here to find one in a JY.

The link shows that the D7DP-7976-AA bell is for a 157 tooth flexplate. Is that incorrect?

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/d ... ansmission

That article is very wrong. It lists a bunch of bells as 157 tooth type, even pan-fill bells which only used 164 tooth. Here is a good reference from an old trans guy that's been parting them out for decades. Select bell housing on the right. https://mmerlinn.com/catalog/miss_yoodi ... dc4f_f.htm
 
Viperwolf1":37pg287y said:
Georgia200":37pg287y said:
The 82 Granada and 82 Mustang 83 Fairmont were the last 250/200s that Ford put in cars in the U.S. Thats 38/37 years ago.

Ive been picking up odds and ends as I find them, pretty unusual around here to find one in a JY.

The link shows that the D7DP-7976-AA bell is for a 157 tooth flexplate. Is that incorrect?

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/d ... ansmission

That article is very wrong. It lists a bunch of bells as 157 tooth type, even pan-fill bells which only used 164 tooth. Here is a good reference from an old trans guy that's been parting them out for decades. Select bell housing on the right. https://mmerlinn.com/catalog/miss_yoodi ... dc4f_f.htm

Yes Viperwolf1, there probably are lots of miss information on the different web articles on part numbers but that's why we try to be as accurate as possable with info and experiences on this site, for the most part I think we are doing a very good job. The Ford bell housing casting / design # D7DP-7967-AA located on the part is the only one that we are dealing with in this case please note that Ford part numbers on packaging, box, or bag etc. maynot always be a match to the casting / design number embossed on the part. This one is a 157 thooth flex plate bell check out the picture in my above post #11 to see it, (the second to the last picture shows the casting / design number) it's made for for a case fill C4 plus It's what "Georgia200" has already acquired, for his intended purpose it's going to be perfect for the 250 engine swap he's doing in his 1967 Mustang. It also looks exactly like the one that was in my very low Milage 1977 Ford Maverick 250 / C4, with Power Steering and Power Disk Brakes. (y) :nod:
 
Georgia200":2puct8lp said:
I had a 82 Capri with a 200. AT, PS, AC, pretty loaded car. I should have kept it. I traded it for a CJ5.

Classic Inlines hasnt had 250 push rods in ages. I need ball and ball, any idea who else carries them?

Are 200/250 lifters the same as 302 lifters?

Yes "Georgia200, I agree with you it makes me sick to see so many these parts being damaged at these Pick N Pulls, I used to have a good collection of these vintage parts and engines up until a few years ago but not since I moved. The 1982 Mustang or Capri with a 200 re a couple of cars I have also been on the look out for a potential build up and they also make a nice DD but they are not so easy to find.

The Ball and Ball (non-adjustable rockers) push rods should also still be available in stock lenght and plus or minus.060 lengths at NAPA auto parts and others. Yes 302 lifters are the same however if you order them you might get a set of 16 instead of 12 or you might individual boxes of 1, 2, or 4, ect. see below link as an example. Good luck (y) :nod: Edited

Sealed Power Liters fits 2.9 (V6), 3.3 (200), and 4.1 (250) Ford sixes 4 boxes of 2 nos
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1986-1992- ... SwGDZbWNBC
 
The link viper posted shows the D7DP being a 164 tooth flexplate.

I sent off a RockAuto order today for a bunch of engine stuff.

This week Im going to get a 164 tooth flexplate and a starter from Summit and see if they fit. Summits right up the road.

New question: How much resistance should the rockers and pedestals have on the shaft?

I have disassembled three shafts and had to use heat to get them apart.

I was in the JY this weekend and looked at some metric shafts that had been removed. Those rockers slid on and off quite easily.

Should I use a brake honing tool and open up my rockers and pedestals so that they slide and rotate on the shaft easy?
 
Georgia200":9bipr1oh said:
Should I use a brake honing tool and open up my rockers and pedestals so that they slide and rotate on the shaft easy?
i took emery cloth'n lightly sanded out the high stuff on the rod. B sure to clean out inside (used a long gun brush) as its an oil passage. Y go crazy w/hand power tools?
 
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