200 to 250 Swap - Bell Housing

Georgia200":8jm3l462 said:
The link viper posted shows the D7DP being a 164 tooth flexplate.

I sent off a RockAuto order today for a bunch of engine stuff.

This week Im going to get a 164 tooth flexplate and a starter from Summit and see if they fit. Summits right up the road.

New question: How much resistance should the rockers and pedestals have on the shaft?

I have disassembled three shafts and had to use heat to get them apart.

I was in the JY this weekend and looked at some metric shafts that had been removed. Those rockers slid on and off quite easily.

Should I use a brake honing tool and open up my rockers and pedestals so that they slide and rotate on the shaft easy?
Click to expand...

I will have to disagree on your bell being for a 164 tooth flex plate! In my OPIN think your going to find that only a 157 tooth flex plate Will fit your bell. Here is one video (see below C4 link) that covers the differance's between the Case Fill C4 157 tooth flex plate (this is the first one) and the Pan Fill C4's 164 tooth flex plate (in the second one). Pay close attention to how many bolts hold the bells onto the C4 cases. You can also see there is a difference in the two cases. The 164 tooth bells can not be used on the case fill C4 trans they are not interchangeable with the 157 tooth bells. As a side note the last trans is a C5 that is made to fit the late 200 with the big bell blocks (its 2/3 of a 302 V8 bell).

The differance's in both of the C4's and the later lock up C5's
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Rzq5WO-MA

How clean is the rocker shaft, Is it rusty or galled were the rocker rides? What do the rocker arm bushings look like? Pictures would be some help on this. The wear to rocker shaft is on the bottom half of the shaft and is also on the bottom of the rocker arm bushings. New rocker shafts and rocker bushings are available and inexpensive. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
I have new rockers and a new shaft. I will have to reuse the pedestals.

My D7DP bell is a mystery. I have two different sources stating that it is a 157 and a 164 tooth.

I will have to continue to investigate.

In regards to the rocker shaft. Should the rockers and pedestals slide on with no interference?
 
The pedistals need to be a tight fit. You can try to warm up the pedistals and also put the shaft in the freezer to make it easier. Do you have a way to measure the shaft and rocker arms accurately? There is a clearance between the two measurements this is about the same as a valve guide to valve stem clearance .0008 to .0010. You need to prefit them first so they operate smoothly before assembly of the pedistals. Good luck (y) :nod: Edited
 
bubba22349":3vj45az4 said:
I will have to disagree on your bell being for a 164 tooth flex plate! In my OPIN think your going to find that only a 157 tooth flex plate Will fit your bell. Here is one video (see below C4 link) that covers the differance's between the Case Fill C4 157 tooth flex plate (this is the first one) and the Pan Fill C4's 164 tooth flex plate (in the second one). Pay close attention to how many bolts hold the bells onto the C4 cases. You can also see there is a difference in the two cases. The 164 tooth bells can not be used on the case fill C4 trans they are not interchangeable with the 157 tooth bells. As a side note the last trans is a C5 that is made to fit the late 200 with the big bell blocks (its 2/3 of a 302 V8 bell).

The differance's in both of the C4's and the later lock up C5's
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Rzq5WO-MA
Click to expand...

Correct. Pan-fill and case-fill bells are not really interchangeable. However, there were both 157 and 164 tooth small block type bells for case-fill C4s. The 157 was needed in small body V8 cars like mustangs and falcons in the 60's. By 1977 almost nothing needed a smaller bell although the mustang II used a 141 tooth flexplate and bell until 1978.
 
Ive decided not to use this bell. Im searching for a 157 tooth.

I also need a set of 250 alternator brackets. The bracket I have also mounts the AC and I dont want to clutter things up with it.

Parts around here are tough to find for a 250.

Making progress, worked on all the bits and pieces I took off the doner engine. timer pointer, cam oil slinger, pulleys, front cover. ect
 
"...Parts around here...'
where's that?
I know the 157 & 164 tooth (I think it is) better than 134...
 
Im in Middle Georgia.

Most of the 250s Ive found are in cars that had AC and PS. Those cars dont have a stand alone Alt bracket.

I bought a C5OP 157 tooth bell off ebay tonight. Hated to spend the extra money, but maybe i can sell the 164 and get some of it back.

Went to a JY today. They had several mavericks picked clean, but I did see a set of I6 frame brackets a a large log head on a Fairmont that i want to go back and get.

I will have a set of Mav, 65/66, 67/68, 69/70 frame brackets so I can finish my comparison of them.
 
"...69/70 frame brackets so I can finish my comparison..."
that's not a"late Mav." they finished in '77. OEM they were 1 piece (a rivit between)
 
I have passenger side 250 lower alternator bracket. I used the upper arm. I had to use the 170 lower mount to fit the alternator in the doghouse. PM me.
 
I have the one piece Maverick frame brackets and frame brackets from each of the different Mustangs. 65/66, 67/68, 69/70.

You can make any of them work, but the key is making them work without moving the transmission mount. As soon as the transmission moves fore or aft, the driveshaft length changes.

Im working on the different combinations to drop in a 250 without moving the transmission.

If you have an early Falcon and the 250 is to long, thats a different scenario, but for 64+ that should not be an issue.
 
"...a different scenario..."
the "Handbook" hasa pretty good work-a-round~
 
Georgia200":33zyoo8t said:
Ive decided not to use this bell. Im searching for a 157 tooth.

I also need a set of 250 alternator brackets. The bracket I have also mounts the AC and I dont want to clutter things up with it.

Parts around here are tough to find for a 250.

Making progress, worked on all the bits and pieces I took off the doner engine. timer pointer, cam oil slinger, pulleys, front cover. ect
Click to expand...

Just curious did you ever try to bolt up that bell to your C4 to see if it fit?
 
I did not test fit the bell, the engine is on a stand,, but I will when I take it off.

Making progress. The new bell is on the way. I bagged all the nuts and bolts when I tore the donor engine apart. Im degressing and derusting those, then putting them where they go on the engine. I dont think Im missing any.

As soon as the bell arrives I will buy the torq converter, flex and block plate. The donor had the spacer and bolts, the old tranny will have the bell to tranny bolts.

I need to send the dampner off to be rebuilt. Good used ones dont exist and no one makes them new.
 
The 250 six shares the same crankshaft front hub size as the 289's and 302's so you might look into having one of the 289 / 302 Dampners moded by cutting off the weight imbalance and rebalanceing to a Zero / Or also called an Internal balance. There probably are severial other aftermarket race Dampeners that could be used, here are a few, Professional Products, Fluid Dampner, & Innovators West see below links. Also many years ago when Jack Clifford (RIP) was still running his shop he had Fisher make some custom balancers for the 250's six'es, one of our site members has been running one for over ten years now. Also at least one of our site members is using the Innvators West balancer on his 250 you might give them a call and see what they can build for you (see below link to their site info. Glad to hear you are making some good progress. Good luck (y) :nod:

Professional Products has removeable weight for Zero balance
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Professi ... ,1802.html

Fluid Dampener has Internal Balanced in Three and Four bolt styles
https://fluidampr.com/ford/#33

Innovators West
https://innovatorswest.com
 
"...dampner off to be rebuilt. Good used ones dont exist..."
I like the 3 shive 250 I got from Matt @ VI. (all ways go to those who support us 1st).
/OR/
daper doc on line in Cali
 
a little more on HB
...
Also many years ago when Jack Clifford (RIP) was still running his shop he had Fisher make some custom balancers for the 250's six'es, one of our site members has been running one for over ten years now. Also ...

@ 15 years ago I acquired the Jack Clifford Shop-built TriPower 250 . I actually didn't know if it would run since it had been 'mothballed' for years. I bought it for the period parts on it including the custom buillt "FISHER" balancer .


nice isn't it' :
. .



I'm not aware of any current aftermarket balancers for the 250. When I researched the engine and the Fisher balancer @ 15 years ago, , I was able to contact "Fisher Engineering" and they claimed then, to have built a batch for Clifford Research and "still might have some on the shelf". Don't have a clue if "Fisher' still viable. Any new balancer info appreciated.

have fun

PS On the Supercharged 250 Maverick, I welded on a 5.0 - 6 rib accy drive pulley to the 250's accessory drive on the balancer for the SC belt.

. . . . .
 
I dont see how a SBF balancer will work because of pulley alignment. The crank pulley would stick out much further than the WP and Alt pulleys.
 
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