'62 Ranchero - 250 - Aluminum Head update

I picked up the aluminum head from the machine shop yesterday. It's been milled .056 (bringing the chambers down to 47 cc), valve guides were machined down somewhat less than .100 (there's an unexpected steel piece at the base of the valve guide that causes issues with machining the guides), and mild porting was done.



I now have everything I need except for the camshaft dowel pin. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the pin was loose (can move it at least 1/16") and fell into the oil pan when I removed the camshaft gear. Pulled the pan (after disconnecting the steering centerlink and under engine brace) and retrieved the pin, but don't want to use it, as loose as it is. Ordered a new pin from Vintage Inlines Sunday, and so far the pin has made it to the US Post Office in Detroit. It's scheduled for delivery tomorrow night, but I'm skeptical that it will arrive on time. Local auto parts stores don't have it, Rock Auto is out of stock, and my machinist doesn't have one in that size (1/4" x 3/8"). My machinist ordered some from one of this vendors, McMaster-Carr, but no idea how long that will take to arrive.

Warning - Vent: This is a $1 pin (less if purchased in bulk; McMaster-Carr sells 25 of them for $10), not locally available, holding up a $1,000 project; why can't all camshaft and timing gearset vendors just include it whenever they sell a camshaft or timing gear?! To me, this is almost like selling a car without a key, then waiting weeks while someone ships you a key.

Question: would it be safe enough to temporarily assemble with the loose pin to degree the cam? (the oil pan remains off, so small parts can't fall into the pan as I assemble and disassemble).

Otherwise, I'll be cleaning and painting, since I can't really assemble much (fuel pump, timing cover, not sure about water pump [can timing cover be installed after water pump is installed?], water pump pulley, fan, radiator, electric pusher fan) until final assembly of the cam/timing gearset. Can't install lifters until cam is installed for the final time, and can't install head permanently until lifters are installed.

Thanks
Bob

Assuming a 1.00" diameter camshaft snout, every .0055" the camshaft gear can turn on the cam represents 1 degrees at the crank.
That will definitely affect the cam position if gear slips or moves once you degree the cam in.

Be aware that the stock pin is not 1/4'' /.250 it is about .256 and .250 is way loose, It is .312 long, but a longer pin would be better.
The stock pin is very hard to pull out of an old cam , as it should be...It is also softer than a regular hardened dowel pin...Maybe to conform to the cam hole and not crack the cam when pressed in at the factory using production practices, not sure.
What ever you do , do not forget to put the cam spacer on, with inside bevel toward cam journal before installing the pin...BTDT

drag-200stang":2xzd75pe said:

Be aware that the stock pin is not 1/4'' /.250 it is about .256 and .250 is way loose, It is .312 long, but a longer pin would be better.
The stock pin is very hard to pull out of an old cam , as it should be...It is also softer than a regular hardened dowel pin...Maybe to conform to the cam hole and not crack the cam when pressed in at the factory using production practices, not sure.
What ever you do , do not forget to put the cam spacer on, with inside bevel toward cam journal before installing the pin...BTDT

Click to expand...

@drag-200stang,

Thank you for this information! Possibly, the machine shop that assembled my short block did not know that this was supposed to be an interference fit and used a smaller diameter pin (old pin miked as .249). It may be fortunate that I decided to upgrade the cam: if the pin had sheared, catastrophe may have ensued.

Although the camshaft dowel pin is on both Clay Smith's and Vintage Inline's web sites, the size information is not. However, a forum member is sending me a couple of the correct size pins, which I should receive early next week.

Thanks again,
Bob

You are Welcome,
I think the the hole and pin are odd sized do not think that there is .006 press fit ,that would seam like to much of a press fit, do not have a cam that is not used to check.
I think that it went like this.
Engineer to bean counter,I want a 5/16'' pin .
Bean counter, No to much money, do 1/4''
Engineer, It will fail.
Bean counter, Make it .006 larger and no more!

It's a tight fit but not interference tight. I could have used a slide hammer to get mine out and been ahead, but that was worn in. A new one should need a nudge to seat and be good and tight. The cam is harder than the pin for sure.

I received a camshaft dowl pin over the weekend. @drag-200stang and @econoline are correct, the pin is .255, but not an interference/press fit. It's definitely snug; you can push it in with your fingers, but you feel the friction between the pin and the edges of the hole. Most likely, not knowing the full story of this, the machinist put a standard size .25" pin in before, which is why the previous pin was loose and a bit worn.

As soon as I received the dowl pin, started reassembling the cam and timing set, only to see one of the camshaft thrust plate bolts break off in the hole (that really surprised me, it was a 5/16" bolt, but it may have already had a crack I didn't see). Had to drill it out and take the hole to the next larger size (3/8").

* Edit: There is still probably 3/8" deflection on the loose side of the new timing chain, but not as much as the old timing chain had (1/2").

Expect to degree the cam tonight (head off). Plan to degree the head a second time once the head is on. Continuing to clean and paint.

Thanks
Bob

Would it make sense to consider putting a drop of Loc-Tie on the dowel pin?

X2 yes and even more importantly the cam timing gear bolt. Good luck

I used LockTite Red on both the dowl pin and the camshaft gear bolt, although I am uncertain of Lock-Tite's holding ability on non-threaded parts like the dowel pin.

Thanks
Bob

Based on my experience so far, I don't like this approach. With no pressure from valve springs (not even light pressure from "check" valve springs), the only pressure on the lifters is the internal return spring in the micrometer. I don't believe that's enough pressure to fully push the lifters back down into their bores (this is a cam upgrade, so the block wasn't hot tanked; in fact it stayed in the car. The lifter bores are clear of debris but probably not as clean as they could be). For this reason, I don't believe my degreeing is very accurate.

I will degree again once the head is back on.

On a side note, I plan to create a separate post to request this, but do any of you have the cam card from a Clay Smith 280H-110 cam? Vintage Inlines no longer offers this cam, and Clay Smith no longer offers cam cards, just a brief description on their web site. The cam cards include event information on both the intake and exhaust valves.

Thanks
Bob

This is from the CI tech site:

Clay Smith Cams are ground straight up. For most street applications we recommend installing the cam with 4 degrees of advance for optimum performance. For example, if you have a cam with a 110* lobe center, you would install the cam on a 106* centerline.

Based on that info the .050" lobe lift points for the CSC 280-10 cam are:

Intake opens 9.5 deg BTDC
Intake closes 41.5 deg ABDC
Exhaust opens 49.5 deg BBDC
Exhaust closes 1.5 ATDC

Hi Bob, without the head I always use a solid lifter to degree a cam to give an accurate reading. I really don't think you can ever get a reliable cam degreeing using a Hydraulic lifter (unless it's completely bottomed out) with or without the head, valve springs, etc. Funny that Clay Smith won't tell or send you the cam card information to degree the H 280 they still have a listing for it for sale on their site (in the below link). Good luck

H 280 Advertised Duration 280 / 280 Duration 231 / 231 @ .050 480 / 480 with 1.5 Rockers .512 / .512 with 1.6 Rockers 528 / 528 with 1.65 Rockers 110' Degree Lobe Seperation Angle Range 2800 to 6600 RPM

Clay Smith 280 H Cam
https://www.claysmithcams.com/h-280-0-b ... 0-200-250/

Greetings Ford Six Fans,

I degreed the Clay Smith 280H cam with the head off, and am uncertain of the results. The cam was new, never run (no wear on the lobes), with "CSC 280H-0-B" stamped on the rear. I purchased this cam from a forum member, who received it from Mike several years before that. Full disclosure: I have been known to overthink things - this could be one of those cases.

Made a piston stop with a piece of 1/4" steel across two head studs and a round, flat magnet (shaped like a thick washer) on underside of steel. Convinced TDC was accurate to within one degree:



However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I don't feel that the head off method is very accurate. With no spring pressure to force the lifter back down, it seems that the lifter might stick in the bore on the way down, leading to the .050 closing position being measured erroneously retarded and excessive duration measurements. It's also very difficult to get the dial indicator completely parallel to the pushrod,and very difficult to zero the dial indicator perfectly. Maybe a higher quality dial indicator with more precise controls would make a difference. The dial indicator set I purchased at Summit Racing was $100; hard to convince myself to spend much more on something I only use every five years so far.

All that being said, my results are below: head off,with new, supposedly "early" (69-72) timing set, cam installed "straight up" (I don't have any offset keys and there is only one keyway on my crank gear), solid lifters, using a degree wheel with TDC located with aforementioned piston stop:



At first glance and if I am interpreting my results correctly, the total duration (280) matches Clay Smith's specs, but the intake .050 event is slightly (2.5 degrees) retarded, the intake centerline is slightly (5 degrees) retarded, and there is 9 degrees more intake duration @ .050 than advertised (240 vs 231). Unless the lack of precision of the head off method is skewing my results, or the new timing chain is somehow a "late" timing chain even though I ordered and the paperwork says that I received an early one, then maybe I have an earlier version of the 280H cam that does not fit the current specs, or I have a reground or experimental cam.

Reality check: Does the below seem correct for a "straight up" installation? How can the "early" vs "late" timing chain sets be visually identified?



I plan to do another degree with head on (still with solid lifters) with the old head gasket.

Edit: the degree results make more sense if Clay Smith's published specs expect the cam to be installed four degrees advanced. It's possible this is the case.

Thanks
Bob

Bob

The advertised duration is NOT used to determine lobe center because the shallow slope at that point is inaccurate to read from.

The .050" duration you measured is 231 deg and is what it should be.
From your chart 7.5 + 223.5 = 231

Calculating intake lobe center:
231/2 = 115.5
115.5 - 7.5 = 108 intake lobe center

The cam is 2 deg. advanced which is OK for a 250 engine versus a 200 since the 250 has low end torque to spare.

With the cam advanced 4 deg the .050" points are;

Intake opens 9.5 deg BTDC
Intake closes 41.5 deg ABDC
Exhaust opens 49.5 deg BBDC
Exhaust closes 1.5

Take the time to check the exhaust lobe timing so you can verify LSA.

Since the Clay Smith cam lobes are symmetrical you can also verify lobe center by measuring .050" down from both sides of max lift (top of lobe)

Side note:
The SAE standard for advertised duration is at .006" lobe lift not 000"
If Clay Smith is using 000" lobe lift they are stretching it which is not uncommon for some cam companies.

Hi Bob, of the Three Stock Ford US 250 Timing Chain Sets for our performance type of builds the preferred set is the 1969 to 1972 the info needed to ID' the early set (1969 to 1972) is listed below, see the section after the note that's hi lighted in Blue. Edited this post today 4/11/2020 to reflect some new info :shockin: :smash: I discovered this morning, there is also a third timing set for the 250 six'es used on the 1978 to 80's Ford's, the newest 250 I have personally had was in a 1977 in a Maverick.

1. The early narrow chain set stock on the 1969 to 1972 250 six it has cam timing straight up, this is the recommended best one for hi performance use. Has the Cloyes # S414 Cam Gear and # S415 Crank Gear.

2. The 1973 to 1977 250 timing chain is wider and the cam gear is retarded 4 degrees this is suitable for a stock to mild engine build. Might be best for an engine that's still using or if your state requires the factory emission equipment and smog testing such as in Calif. on the 1975 to 1977 up cars. Has the Cloyes # S442 Cam Gear and # S415 Crank Gear.

3. The 1978 to 1980 250's had another timing chain set I don't know the details of this except it's the Cloyes Cam gear is # S502T and also is used with Cloyes # S507 crank gear. I can only guess that it's also retarded 4 or more degrees, so this is set is suitable for only those doing a stock 250 rebuild that may need to fallow their states smog testing rules. See link for pictures of these gears unfothinately the cam gear is upside dow so you can't see the timing marks.

250 Cam Gear differances

Early 250 cam gear 1969 to 1972 Cloyes # S414 used with the # S415 crank gear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... ocket,5722

Cloyes Crank Gear #S415 used with both above # S414 and second Cam # S442 gears
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cloye ... ocket,5723

Later 250 cam gear 1973 to 1976 Cloyes # S442 used with the # S415 crank gear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... ocket,5722

Last 250 cam gear 1977 to 1980 or? Cloyes # S502T that's used with crank gear # S507
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... cc=1130016

Last 250 cam gear # 507 1977 to 1983
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cloye ... ocket,5723

You can also see pictures of these timing chain sets below in the Post by site member "Econoline" were he did an extensive study comparing and identifying the parts of these two Ford 250 timing chain sets. Check your timing chain parts against the below pictures. Good luck

Post by "Econoline"
"I know this has been discussed and I have read through all the various topics posted regarding the timing set for the 250 but I am still a little confused. I want to replace my timing set so I've been looking into it. My 250 is a '70 and I understand I want a pre '73 chain.

There has been a lot of discussion that the available sets are all late era retarded. But when I look for a set I find 2 different sets available from at least 2 companies and probably sealed power as well (with a couple of hitches ). First are the ones available @ Autozone and Advanced Auto and maybe elsewhere, the "SA Gear" #73083 @ $38 for '69-'72 250 & #73016 for '73 on. Next is Cloyes, while no set is available "[shadow=blue]"Here are the Key Parts for the 1969 to 1972 Timing Chain Set"[/shadow] for 69-'72, parts can be bought to make a set those being #C363 chain, #S415 crank, and #S414 cam @ ~$70. The '73 on is available in set #C3016 with the only part difference being the cam sprocket #S442 vs S414 for the early version.

To complicate things further, I present these 3 pictures, notice the "SA" in the casting.

Cloyes S414:


"SA" late:


"SA" early:


On the "SA" late set, if you look close, you can see S442 on the cam sprocket as well as "SA" and so on and S415 on the crank sprocket showing that this "SA" set is in fact Cloyes,

bubba22349":2481spwr said:

Hi Bob, of the Three Stock Ford US 250 Timing Chain Sets for our performance type of builds the preferred set is the 1969 to 1972 the info needed to ID' the early set (1969 to 1972) is listed below, see the section after the note that's hi lighted in Blue. Edited this post today 4/11/2020 to reflect some new info :shockin: :smash: I discovered this morning, there is also a third timing set for the 250 six'es used on the 1978 to 80's Ford, the newest 250 I have personally had was in a 1977 in a Maverick.

1. The early narrow chain set stock on the 1969 to 1972 250 six it has cam timing straight up, this is the recommended best one for hi performance use. Has the Cloyes # S414 Cam Gear and # S415 Crank Gear.

2. The 1973 to 1977 250 timing chain is wider and the cam gear is retarded 4 degrees this is suitable for a stock to mild engine build. Might be best for an engine that's still using or if your state requires the factory emission equipment and smog testing such as in Calif. on the 1975 to 1977 up cars. Has the Cloyes # S442 Cam Gear and # S415 Crank Gear.

3. The 1978 to 1980 250's had another timing chain set I don't know the details of this except it's the Cloyes Cam gear is # S502T and also is used with Cloyes # S507 crank gear. I can only guess that it's also retarded 4 or more degrees, so this is set is suitable for only those doing a stock 250 rebuild that may need to fallow their states smog testing rules. See link for pictures of these gears unfothinately the cam gear is upside dow so you can't see the timing marks.

250 Cam Gear differances

Early 250 cam gear 1969 to 1972 Cloyes # S414 used with the # S415 crank gear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... ocket,5722

Cloyes Crank Gear #S415 used with both above # S414 and second Cam # S442 gears
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cloye ... ocket,5723

Later 250 cam gear 1973 to 1977 Cloyes # S442 used with the # S415 crank gear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... ocket,5722

Last 250 cam gear 1978 to 1980 or? Cloyes # S502T that's used with crank gear # S507
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... cc=1130016

Last 250 crank gear 1978 to 1980
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cloye ... ocket,5723

You can also see pictures of these timing chain sets below in the Post by site member "Econoline" were he did an extensive study comparing and identifying the parts of these two Ford 250 timing chain sets. Check your timing chain parts against the below pictures. Good luck

Post by "Econoline"
"I know this has been discussed and I have read through all the various topics posted regarding the timing set for the 250 but I am still a little confused. I want to replace my timing set so I've been looking into it. My 250 is a '70 and I understand I want a pre '73 chain.

There has been a lot of discussion that the available sets are all late era retarded. But when I look for a set I find 2 different sets available from at least 2 companies and probably sealed power as well (with a couple of hitches ). First are the ones available @ Autozone and Advanced Auto and maybe elsewhere, the "SA Gear" #73083 @ $38 for '69-'72 250 & #73016 for '73 on. Next is Cloyes, while no set is available "[shadow=blue]"Here are the Key Parts for the 1969 to 1972 Timing Chain Set"[/shadow] for 69-'72, parts can be bought to make a set those being #C363 chain, #S415 crank, and #S414 cam @ ~$70. The '73 on is available in set #C3016 with the only part difference being the cam sprocket #S442 vs S414 for the early version.

To complicate things further, I present these 3 pictures, notice the "SA" in the casting.

Cloyes S414:

"SA" late:

"SA" early:

On the "SA" late set, if you look close, you can see S442 on the cam sprocket as well as "SA" and so on and S415 on the crank sprocket showing that this "SA" set is in fact Cloyes,

Click to expand...

Thank you @bubba and thanks to @econoline for the detective work!

I have an S414 cam socket and an S415 crank socket, so I apparently have the early, “straight up” timing set as desired.

Thanks
Bob

pmuller9":2akh5thi said:

Bob

The advertised duration is NOT used to determine lobe center because the shallow slope at that point is inaccurate to read from.

The .050" duration you measured is 231 deg and is what it should be.
From your chart 7.5 + 223.5 = 231

Calculating intake lobe center:
231/2 = 115.5
115.5 - 7.5 = 108 intake lobe center

The cam is 2 deg. advanced which is OK for a 250 engine versus a 200 since the 250 has low end torque to spare.

With the cam advanced 4 deg the .050" points are;

Intake opens 9.5 deg BTDC
Intake closes 41.5 deg ABDC
Exhaust opens 49.5 deg BBDC
Exhaust closes 1.5

Take the time to check the exhaust lobe timing so you can verify LSA.

Since the Clay Smith cam lobes are symmetrical you can also verify lobe center by measuring .050" down from both sides of max lift (top of lobe)

Side note:
The SAE standard for advertised duration is at .006" lobe lift not 000"
If Clay Smith is using 000" lobe lift they are stretching it which is not uncommon for some cam companies.

Click to expand...

@pmuller,

The “advertised degrees ATDC” is my understanding of what should have been measured / what I expected to measure. The “degrees ATDC” is what I actually measured.

However, I was measuring advertised duration at just above zero, not at .006. That will lessen my measured duration a bit.

Thanks
Bob

Bob
Measuring the advertised duration is fine and is good to know as far as calculating the DCR as a detonation indicator.

The .050" readings is what is used for finding the lobe centers.

bubba22349":jse2gk8m said:

Hi Bob, of the Three Stock Ford US 250 Timing Chain Sets for our performance type of builds the preferred set is the 1969 to 1972 the info needed to ID' the early set (1969 to 1972) is listed below, see the section after the note that's hi lighted in Blue. Edited this post today 4/11/2020 to reflect some new info :shockin: :smash: I discovered this morning, there is also a third timing set for the 250 six'es used on the 1978 to 80's Fords, the newest 250 I have personally had was in a 1977 in a Maverick.

1. The early narrow chain set stock on the 1969 to 1972 250 six it has cam timing straight up, this is the recommended best one for hi performance use. Has the Cloyes # S414 Cam Gear and # S415 Crank Gear.

2. The 1973 to 1977 250 timing chain is wider and the cam gear is retarded 4 degrees this is suitable for a stock to mild engine build. Might be best for an engine that's still using or if your state requires the factory emission equipment and smog testing such as in Calif. on the 1975 to 1977 up cars. Has the Cloyes # S442 Cam Gear and # S415 Crank Gear.

3. The 1978 to 1980 250's had another timing chain set I don't know the details of this except it's the Cloyes Cam gear is # S502T and also is used with Cloyes # S507 crank gear. I can only guess that it's also retarded 4 or more degrees, so this is set is suitable for only those doing a stock 250 rebuild that may need to fallow their states smog testing rules. See link for pictures of these gears unfothinately the cam gear is upside dow so you can't see the timing marks.

250 Cam Gear differances

Early 250 cam gear 1969 to 1972 Cloyes # S414 used with the # S415 crank gear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... ocket,5722

Cloyes Crank Gear #S415 used with both above # S414 and second Cam # S442 gears
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cloye ... ocket,5723

Later 250 cam gear 1973 to 1977 Cloyes # S442 used with the # S415 crank gear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... ocket,5722

Last 250 cam gear 1978 to 1980 or? Cloyes # S502T that's used with crank gear # S507
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... cc=1130016

Last 250 crank gear 1978 to 1980
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cloye ... ocket,5723

You can also see pictures of these timing chain sets below in the Post by site member "Econoline" were he did an extensive study comparing and identifying the parts of these two Ford 250 timing chain sets. Check your timing chain parts against the below pictures. Good luck

Post by "Econoline"
"I know this has been discussed and I have read through all the various topics posted regarding the timing set for the 250 but I am still a little confused. I want to replace my timing set so I've been looking into it. My 250 is a '70 and I understand I want a pre '73 chain.

There has been a lot of discussion that the available sets are all late era retarded. But when I look for a set I find 2 different sets available from at least 2 companies and probably sealed power as well (with a couple of hitches ). First are the ones available @ Autozone and Advanced Auto and maybe elsewhere, the "SA Gear" #73083 @ $38 for '69-'72 250 & #73016 for '73 on. Next is Cloyes, while no set is available "[shadow=blue]"Here are the Key Parts for the 1969 to 1972 Timing Chain Set"[/shadow] for 69-'72, parts can be bought to make a set those being #C363 chain, #S415 crank, and #S414 cam @ ~$70. The '73 on is available in set #C3016 with the only part difference being the cam sprocket #S442 vs S414 for the early version.

To complicate things further, I present these 3 pictures, notice the "SA" in the casting.

Cloyes S414:

"SA" late:

"SA" early:

On the "SA" late set, if you look close, you can see S442 on the cam sprocket as well as "SA" and so on and S415 on the crank sprocket showing that this "SA" set is in fact Cloyes.

Click to expand...

Bubba, on Rock Auto you look at the camshaft gear for a 73 250 & it looks to be at least 4 degrees advanced, rather than restarted.