Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

Fox body Sixes

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
powerband
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:45 pm
Location: Mid Hudson Valley - \H/

Fox body Sixes

Post #1 by powerband » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:32 am

Fox body Sixes

... appreciate info on what Engine and tranny mount / crossmember / linkages / parts... differences for 200 SIX Fox body Mustang needed for conversion. Will later mid-80's Fox body convert?. Clutch pedal setup year span?.

apparently rare in regional DSO area, ready to try sourcing parts from forum and farther.

also Fairmont info for fun 8)

thanks
"Take time to stop and smell... The roadkill..."

User avatar
rbohm
Assistant Admin
Posts: 5697
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:00 am
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #2 by rbohm » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:48 pm

8) if you are wanting to put a six in the fox body cars, you either need the six cylinder K member, which interchanges with all fox body cars, or you need to modify the chassis mounts.
64 falcon
66 mustang
05 grand marquis

my mind is aglow with whiriling
transient nodes of thought
careening through a cosmic vapor
of invention

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1328
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #3 by rocklord » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:23 pm

The K-member from a Fairmont/Zephyr with an inline six should fit the Fox body Mustang.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2020 BMW X3 M, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 473HP, 8-Spd Auto

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #4 by xctasy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:58 am

No problems fitting any I6 to any Fox Mustang, or SN95, or the revised 1999-2004 60% Foxes.

The best advice is to go for a later K member, that doesn't have the crappy ackerman, camber and bump steer problems a 1979-1985 Mustangt does.

The frame horns that hold the I6 are specific to the I6's, but you can easily fit a flitch plate to the stock post 1986 K member, and bolt the I6 right up. V6, I-4, V8 k members are no problem to fit an I6, so long as a 2.5 x 4 inch by 80 thou thick plate is flitched by part stich, part fillet welding a plate to the stock mount on each side.

V8 radiators were similar from 78 to 2004, with just a change of hose size on the bottom and the thermo fans and washer bottle being the issue. The earlier Fox fan shroud fits on, the mounting isn't such an issue.

The trans mounts can be shifted forwards or back, the earlier hydraulic clutch 2.77 or 3.03 bell housing can be converted to the later quadrant manual clutch, but there is a split from 78 to 81, and then 82 to 2004, or some such. The bell housing just needs an Advance Adaptor cleat added to the bell housing to make it manual Fox.

A 250 is quite tall, but not hard to fit if you used the Mercury Capri hood scoop. The later Stangs are best equiped with an aftermarket fibreglass hood, with the orginal kept. The only issue is state mandated ratification of the FMV Emission Standards... if your state uses IM tests, then your I6 will fail the visual inspection, and not be allowed to proceed, on the basis that the I6 engine is not an option on any 1983 to 2004 Stang. An X-code 1983 3.3 from the Fairmont and LTD II would be a legal 1983 Mustang swap as long as the engine was emissions spec, but they had no manual 3.3 option.

There isn't any thing else to it.

DSO changes were related to transmissions, C3, C4, C5, and SR, SROD and T4 gearboxes were varied according to area because there were orginally three plants cranking our Mustangs. After SAP got wound up before Octboer 1981, the 82's were rationalised, and the options list was tailoured to the 48 states/ 2 states split, where Collarado/CA I6 cars couldn't run manual gearboxes. Only the 2.3 and 5.0 got manuals, the option was withdrawn before 1982 I think. The Blue IL 204 tag and Grey CA 232 tag engine split was based on the need for the C5 to run a low mount starter, as it was a huge 164 teeth bell housing trans which couldn't fit the high mountblue block without yet another major bell housing variation. So Ford just lowered the top two bolts on the six bolt bell, without a major casting change. But the Blue block cotinued till 1983 with C3's on offer till the end of 83. That was a DSO option, probably becasue the C3 wasn't man enough for a 3800 pound LTD II wagon, while the C5 would have been fine with it. Even though a 92 hp, 156 lb-ft 3.3 would have trouble punching through a wet piece of toilet paper with a 1320 foot run up :cry:

The rest is soooo easy. I love Foxes, always have, they are the easiest and best quality of all Mustangs, having proper hi volume components and the reliabilty that goes with that, and additionally, specialist parts which hide its Fairmont orgins quite professionally. And everyone calls it a little car, and its seen as a progressive, hard core machine to modify and play with, having spearheaded a huge aftermarket performance industry which took a bankrupt Ford into the folding green with just a 2 and 4-bbl carb, CFI and port EFI 5 Liter hop up of the 82 and 83 to 85's. That focus made the Fox S shells, the LSC and Thunderbird, such standout premium cars, and the Fox platform was then allowed to mature into the IRS 1999 to 2004 cars. Today, people are retrofitting all the later model stuff into thew earlier Foxes, as everything interchanges, and just like Ford Six, the other Mustang forums are friendly and helpfull, and tell you anything you want to know.

And the V8, Essex and Cologne V6 and Turbo I4 guys are finally resepcting the old I6's when they see this website.

As I state of Four Eyed Pride, Canadian Automobile Protection Association's Phil Edmonston, c.1985
"the Mustang/Capri duo offer the best value on the market-sports car thrills without the sports car prices.They are the most under-rated vehicles around"

That especially includes service and maintenance. Just as the XK2000 based spring over A arm and leaf sprung uni bodies were designed as the ultimate throwaway cars, so was the Fox. Its that built to a price focus which has ensured old Cometes, Falcons and Mustangs have been easy to fix. The same with any Fox. Despite its tendancy to rust, the Fox Mustang is the worlds easiest classic car to fix, and with a few mods, its tougher than a 55 Chevy, and gaining grass roots love each day.

With an I6, its almost heaven on a stick.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

User avatar
powerband
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:45 pm
Location: Mid Hudson Valley - \H/

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #5 by powerband » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:55 am

With an I6, its almost heaven on a stick.

well said, well said...

thanks for the info and perspective.
"Take time to stop and smell... The roadkill..."

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #6 by xctasy » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:27 pm

See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=142480.

This covers the cross member changes. There are other ones here by other internet sources.

Most lop off the ends to create a V8 x member from an I6 one. The I6 is a very narrow, short stroke engine, about 9.125" from mount to mount compared to about 11 " on the 250. It may bee that the wider 250 I6 is the easierst swap!The passengers side mount on the 200 Fox I6's is many inches further in than the I4 and V8's. You are probably best to add some 2 by 4 rectangular box section, and bring the passenger side in about 2 inches to mate the standard F150/Fox I6 rubber mounts into the pressed steel engine to rubber mount bracket. Easy to do. You and others can comercialize the better braked, steered, suspendend and geometrically better post 1986 k memeber. Only issue is that some Thunderbird Turbo Coupe I4 k members have a specific boxed engine mount, which is going to need more of a trim off to fit I6 compliant brackets.

The I6 to V8 mods give you the clues to reverse engineer to I6 from any I4, V6, or V6 k-member,

See frame 23,24, and 25 of 36 on http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3863084/1 ... -fairmont/

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3863084/1 ... 8630840019

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3863084/1 ... 8630840020

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3863084/1 ... 8630840021

The truth is out there!
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

JustinPaul91
Registered User
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:49 am
Location: Fredericktown MO

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #7 by JustinPaul91 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:03 am

I know this isnt my original posting but im very interested in putting a 300 in my 95 mustang(sn95). After readimg this, is it a possibility that I can get a new tubular k member and make a plate to bolt to the k member then to the motor? Is that was was talked about for making a plate to fit it?
Will any cutting or re working of the frame/fire wall need to be done being that the 6 is longer than the v8?

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #8 by xctasy » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:01 am

Yes, A plate or box section part stitch and part fillet welded will work, so will a bolted on plate on each side. Very easy to do. The 4.9 should use the stock V8 engine mount positions, so trail fit and Have A go.

No firewall issue with any Fox or S shell, which is what newer redesigned Foxes after 1983 were called

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... -4-9L-swap

https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6829


It's just height, and that is some states, you can't fit a truck engine to a car, or an earlier engine than the model year of the car. Some of the last 1996 and F250 1997 trucks were OBDII. The ease of fitting up an auto 4.9 EFI is going to be a lot of fun.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

User avatar
JackFish
VIP Member
Posts: 2791
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 7:31 pm
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #9 by JackFish » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:24 am

Just going to throw this out there, if you're going to be swapping a k-member you might consider installing some caster/camber plates while you're at it.
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

JustinPaul91
Registered User
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:49 am
Location: Fredericktown MO

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #10 by JustinPaul91 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:11 am

Awesome! My mind has been made up then, my car will be a 6 cylinder! My engine builder wont like it so much but when im forking over the money he shouldn't say much. How hard would it be to convert the engine from a wet sump to a dry sump? The guy that owns the race car I work on says a dry sump increases you overall hp because your crank and rods arent "sloshing" around in the oil. Thanks for the help!

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #11 by xctasy » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:40 am

Very expensive, and worse if you try and cost cut.

Factory system example is the 1975-1979 Mercedes Benz SEL 450 6.9. one of the best systems around. V12 Lamborghinis used it too.

Best discussion was David Vizards Modifying Fords SOHC engines, page 108 to 111.

He recommends buying a whole kit. Size wise, oil demands for a 5 liter I6 will be the same as a hard worked Pinto 2000.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26804743/How- ... vid-Vizard

Aussies were making systems for racing in the early 50's on small I6 engines.

viewtopic.php?t=6557
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

JustinPaul91
Registered User
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:49 am
Location: Fredericktown MO

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #12 by JustinPaul91 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:37 pm

Well, is it worth converting it to a dry sump compared to fighting the front end stuff? With the front end stuff in the way is it possible to raise the engine up just enough to clear the front end, and possibly still fit under the hood? Or will the hood need a lift kit?

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Fox body Sixes

Post #13 by xctasy » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:39 am

JustinPaul91 wrote:Well, is it worth converting it to a dry sump compared to fighting the front end stuff? With the front end stuff in the way is it possible to raise the engine up just enough to clear the front end, and possibly still fit under the hood? Or will the hood need a lift kit?




*Source:How to Modify Ford SOHC Engines (Pinto/Cortina/Capri/Sierra 1.3- 2.0 litre 1970 to 1982) by David Vizard, published 1984 by Fountain Press.

Page 108-111, Off Roading the Pinto Engine

ISBN 0 86343 9856, Dewy Decimal No 629.2504 Viz



If you look at http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... r%29/page7

You'll see that it can be done!


The old ex World War II guys had a bit more gumption, and used to do it regularly in there hand built I6 race cars...here is Aussie Merv Waggot in the 50's tinkering with a twin cam headed GM L6 with a dry sump pump on the front


http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v22 ... tsix01.jpg
http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v22 ... tsix02.jpg
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests