Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #101 by xctasy » Wed May 21, 2014 8:25 am

Cool23 wrote:I am sure that deserves a reply but it would be great if you corrected your spelling so I knew what much of it meant :beer:

As for the situation in Thailand lets try to keep Politics out of this as best we can. I am sure the Auto workers in that country would be well looked after by the companies as if they lose production then that is also a global loss in sales.



I so deserved that.

Fact remains that a Ford Capri/Merkur XR4TI/Scorpio captive import mentality remains with Fords head office, and your valid questions aren't being answered with upping the volume on pickup Mazdas in the US. Its an area where no-one looses, so why should there not be right hooker Mazdas in America?


The aspect with Thailand is that everyone, Ford, Jeep Toyota and GM has decided to outsource there, its the goto place. The backdrop is that at a comparative level, Holden and Ford OZ used to sell engines, body parts and whole cars there, subsidized by the Australian G*********t via export "complementation"...a reward for reducing its total amount of cars parts and model lines for a market of less than 1 million vehicles per year. The Americans Chuck Chapman and Joe Whitsell at Holden set it up with Opel engines to Daewoo, Opel Germany, Vauxhall.

It was set up to support a free trade scenario, set it up to ensure a competent engineering base got enough international sales. This is how the Astron 80 2.555, Family II 1596 and 1998 engines, and Alloytec GM High Feature were destined to succeed. Instead, Suzuki, Alfa Romeo and others build the Holden V6 engines from other GM subsidaries.

Alas, every time Holden OZ or Ford OZ attempted to network with suppliers, the market was closed. We got a whole lot of 54 degree Opel V6 engined Commodore Royales that were Singapore bound Image, along with 2 liter Commodore VL's and VN's. The market was there, but GM's head office purchased Daewoo, and the Asia Pacific focus of the Holden Motor Company simply ceased to exists. Same with the South African Chevrolets based on Holden HK, HG and HQ's. The Mazda Road Pacers HX based machine was the same.


It would be nice to see that other countries closer to the international hub would see some reciprocal trade form Ford Dearborn. I see a heck of a lot of cool little Toyota Cavaliers, and Chevy's grey imports from Japan in New Zealand now that were born Daewoo's, so hopefully consolidation will mean the same thing for Fords and Mazda's.


If this is Fords idea of make sure the organic whole is fertile and vibrant, then bring it on.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #102 by MustangSix » Wed May 28, 2014 1:30 pm

Cool23 wrote: The US market is missing out on theses smaller built Diesel pickups and you can see that mentioned in many magazines like Diesel Power in the US.


Diesel has not caught on here like it has in the rest of the world. The cost of diesel is much higher at the pump, so most of your mileage gains evaporate right there.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #103 by Fingers » Wed May 28, 2014 10:39 pm

Cool23 wrote:
Fingers wrote:
It's not actually Mazda based, more the Mazda is Ford based :)


Well, Ford own a share of Mazda. Mazda would have designed it.

.

Ok, have it your way, Mazda designed it at their Victorian R&D centre.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #104 by Cool23 » Thu May 29, 2014 5:53 pm

Fingers wrote:
Cool23 wrote:
Fingers wrote:
It's not actually Mazda based, more the Mazda is Ford based :)


Well, Ford own a share of Mazda. Mazda would have designed it.

.

Ok, have it your way, Mazda designed it at their Victorian R&D centre.


Have a look at the F Series Trucks that allow the front door to open and then you open the rear door Suicide fashion. This was a Mazda Design in a neat little Coupe. Ford was able to use that design because of the share it has in Mazda. Ford also purchased Jag / Rover to get the V8 Diesel technology for the Territory then sold of Jag / Rover.

Image
Image
You can see here how Ford used the rear door idea from Mazda.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #105 by bubba22349 » Thu May 29, 2014 9:05 pm

Well maybe, but what year did Mazda design and use it? Ford used that same type combo of doors suicide and (pillar less) on the US built 1997 Ford F series extra cab trucks. Also the suicide doors were used way back on the Model T Fords and many other years though to the late 1960's but they all had center pillars with them.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #106 by Fingers » Thu May 29, 2014 9:11 pm

Cool23 wrote:
Have a look at the F Series Trucks that allow the front door to open and then you open the rear door Suicide fashion. This was a Mazda Design in a neat little Coupe. Ford was able to use that design because of the share it has in Mazda. Ford also purchased Jag / Rover to get the V8 Diesel technology for the Territory then sold of Jag / Rover.

Image
Image
You can see here how Ford used the rear door idea from Mazda.


Ford did not purchase Jag/Rover to get the diesel engine, as it was a Ford/PSA (Peugeot and Citroen)joint venture.

I can see your point on the rear door mechanism,but Ford had the pillar less suicide door on the F series before Mazda designed and built the RX8.
However that does not change the fact that the Ranger was designed and tested in Australia, by FoMoCo, at Broadmeadows and You Yangs.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #107 by Cool23 » Fri May 30, 2014 7:11 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Well maybe, but what year did Mazda design and use it? Ford used that same type combo of doors suicide and (pillar less) on the US built 1997 Ford F series extra cab trucks. Also the suicide doors were used way back on the Model T Fords and many other years though to the late 1960's but they all had center pillars with them.


It is well written that Ford took that technology for the doors from Mazda.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #108 by Cool23 » Fri May 30, 2014 7:14 pm

Fingers wrote:
Ford did not purchase Jag/Rover to get the diesel engine, as it was a Ford/PSA (Peugeot and Citroen)joint venture.

I can see your point on the rear door mechanism,but Ford had the pillar less suicide door on the F series before Mazda designed and built the RX8.
However that does not change the fact that the Ranger was designed and tested in Australia, by FoMoCo, at Broadmeadows and You Yangs.


As I posted above in the last quote about the doors yes Ford used the same design from Mazda for the F series. The Diesel in the Territory is well known to be Landrover / Rangerover based.
They then sold it all off to the India based TATA.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #109 by Fingers » Fri May 30, 2014 7:56 pm

Yes the Territory diesel engine was used by Landrover.
It is also used by Citroen in the C5 and C6.
It is used by Peugeot

It was a joint venture between PSA and Ford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #110 by Cool23 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:12 pm

Fingers wrote:Yes the Territory diesel engine was used by Landrover.
It is also used by Citroen in the C5 and C6.
It is used by Peugeot

It was a joint venture between PSA and Ford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17


:D :thumbup: I had forgotten about the Lion group. Ford purchased Jag Rover to become involved with that group then sold it off after obtaining the connection.

Will be interesting to see what the Ford Diesel used in the Territory pops up in next once the Territory ends production. I have heard it said the V6 (V8?) Turbo Diesel could appear in the US built F150 and as per that link in a bigger 4.4 litre size.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #111 by Fingers » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:36 pm

The US don't seem to be big on diesels, but the 3.0L with the twin turbo's would be great.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #112 by Cool23 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:37 pm

Fingers wrote:The US don't seem to be big on diesels, but the 3.0L with the twin turbo's would be great.


I have to correct you on that. Anything Pickup with Diesel they love. Look for a copy of Diesel Power and you will see what I mean. Although the 3.0L may take some work to convince them in the US. The Ram with the Cummins and the F Series as well as the Chevrolet pickups are very popular in the US. Although I can agree anything smaller with a Diesel in the US is not popular.

I have a 6BT Cummins in the 48 Ford and got that from Cummins as a crate motor and a Diesel crate motor is rare in the USA. Mind you I have been looking for a 4BT Cummins to put in an A model and as they are so hard to find I am thinking the 3.0L out of a Territory would be good but all those electronics on that Diesel put me off. It would even be fun to fit one into an older Falcon as that would not be to hard considering the Territory is Falcon based.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #113 by xctasy » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:18 am

The growth of the market is rear drive pickups. What is happening in Australia has been happening for years in New Zealand. And people are looking at how a pickup integrates into the sedan lines.

Image


Traydecks and sports utility wagons together almost account for almost half of monthly new vehicles registrations and the tight fight between the Hilux, which has dominated the ute sector for more than 30 years, and the Ford Ranger – which almost took the crown in 2013 and is running ahead on overall year-to-date count – continues to be a headline story.


https://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/autos/bl ... key-phase/


On the basis of popularity, Ford's Ranger in New Zealand is where the F150 was back in 1988...the highest selling vehicle bar none.
For market details see http://www.mia.org.nz/news.asp
Now, simple question, if the T6 program which spawned it was Australia produced, the ability to make money would be simple.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #114 by Cool23 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:29 pm

Interesting to see companies looking to change the way the small Pickup is looked at.

Foton from China already use Cummins and now Nissan (Frontier) and I have also hear possibly Toyota (Tundra) are looking to use a Cummins as the engine base.

I have also heard and it is not confirmed the Toyota Landcruiser will no longer be marketed in Australia so that may also include NZ and the US.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #115 by Cool23 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:48 pm

Ford will today lay off another 250 workers here.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business ... 6952026738
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #116 by Cool23 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:58 pm

Imagine a tap on the shoulder and being told you finish up today. That is how it was done. All this is happening due to many of the smaller suppliers looking to the future. these are the sub contractors that supply parts to Ford here in the way of components.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #117 by Cool23 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Now just a matter of a few weeks before the last vehicle rolls off the Ford production line here in Australia. The last Ute came off the production line some time ago.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #118 by Cool23 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:21 pm

On Friday the 7th the last Australian built Falcon came off the production line at Ford Broadmeadows. Of interest here is the fact it is an inline six and the last inline six built at the Ford Geelong engine plant. This car will not be sold but will go into a Museum.

The last Territory came off the production line at the same time. Some 600 workers have now finished working for Ford.
Some design and testing work will still be done in this country.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-07/f ... rs/7909836

As of the 7th this ends 91 years of Ford Australia building and assembling vehicles in this country.

On the same day the last Holden Cruze came off the production line in South Australia and 12 months from now Holden (GMH) and Toyota will also cease production and no major manufacturer will build cars in this country.
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #119 by xctasy » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:44 pm

Cool23 wrote:On Friday the 7th the last Australian built Falcon came off the production line at Ford Broadmeadows. Of interest here is the fact it is an inline six and the last inline six built at the Ford Geelong engine plant. This car will not be sold but will go into a Museum.

The last Territory came off the production line at the same time. Some 600 workers have now finished working for Ford.
Some design and testing work will still be done in this country.

"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-06/ford-d-day/7908322"

As of the 7th this ends 91 years of Ford Australia building and assembling vehicles in this country.

On the same day the last Holden Cruze came off the production line in South Australia and 12 months from now Holden (GMH) and Toyota will also cease production and no major manufacturer will build cars in this country.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-06/f ... ay/7908322

:beer:


Nice report. Well done fellas.


Focusing on the sucess, FASPAC Vehicle design has continued. The


1. The Australian Ford design team rework of the Long Wheelbase Chinese Taurus, an Aussie Fairlane style car

A seventh-generation Ford Taurus was unveiled at the 2015 Shanghai Auto Show in April 2015. It bears a closer resemblance to the current Ford Fusion/Mondeo but with an extended wheelbase and is unique to the Mainland Chinese market. Designed in conjunction with Ford Australia and currently manufactured by Changan Ford Automobile Co., Ltd. in Hangzhou, it comes in two engine variants paired with either 2.0T EcoBoost engine or twin-turbo 2.7T V6 EcoBoost engine. Although this particular model is not manufactured outside China, there is a possibility that it will be exported to other markets in the near future.

See "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taurus"


Image

and

2. the T6 project (which begat the Thailand built Mazda BT50 and Asia-Pacific Ford Ranger and Everest), has been a stratospheric sucess.


3. The Ranger is the top selling vehicile in New Zealand, knocked off Toyota Hilux.

4. The Mazda/Ford T6 base has now gone everywhere in the Southern Hemisphere, Asia, Pacific, South Africa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRqtHV-zgzU


Meanwhile, Ford shores up and protects its important F-truck sales by the removal of the old US Ranger line.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ost1736417

I miss my 98 XLT Explorer


Top selling vehicle in New Zealand , bar none, is the Ford Ranger. It eclisped the Toyota SR5 "HiLux" last year, and sold 26000 odd in Australia, a bit below the 38,126 HiLuxes.

Australia sells as many cars in a year to 26 million people as Ford USA sold Ford Fairlanes to Americans in 1957..

Less than a million cars a year.

The New Zealand market is about 100 000 new cars total, nothing really. But in percentage terms, the Aussie designed Ranger and Mazda BT50 is over 10% of the market in NZ, and 5% of the market in Australia, good figures to have on your side for the FoMoCo balance sheet.

Image

Image


Both markets are just sooo tiny compareed to the US and its stalwart F150, but the last year of the Ranger sold 70000 odd in the US for 2011. But in percentage terms of a 17 million new car market, the US Ranger didn't EVEN rate a whole percent.

The situation in NZ with the Ranger in 2015 as the US with the F150 in 1988; the trucks eclipsing the volume sedans.


The Aussie Ranger is a too pretty, lifestyle cross over from the traditional sedan tray based pickup we called Utility "Utes". Thats Ranchero, Brat, El Camino, Rampage, Rabbit pickup style integrated tray fake pickups. You know, the ones you brake in half while trying to do real mans work on the farm.

https://youtu.be/TwIsV542ZSc?t=15

"Designed and developed by Ford Australia for global markets, the Ranger is one of the best dual-cab utes when it comes to playing both workhorse and lifestyle vehicle."

But its made in Thailand, with a 198 hp 3.2 liter Diesel, so you'll never see it in the US. They snap the front drive shafts, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1LQ4hYuc8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIcvtcIabY

And that's why the US Ranger died, though its just a 'get a real truck, man' substitute, it was far, far better than a Unibody Utility integrated try pickup. It died because Ford needs to get real sales volume, and the cost and risk of a intermediate pickup with a full chassis was too much $$$ to foot, especially when the Explorer was going to a non full chassis frame.


Ford surpasses 1 million sales in Asia Pacific following best-ever August sales
-Ford sales rose 22 percent in August for total Asia Pacific region as well as for China
-August market share of 4.1 percent highest month ever for Ford in Asia Pacific
-SUVs now represent 30 percent of Ford’s vehicle sales in the region
-Thanks to the strong performance of Ranger and Transit, sales of Ford vehicles in Vietnam increased 57 percent in August,
-strong performance of EcoSport, Ranger and Everest helped increase sales of Ford vehicles in the Philippines by more than 90 percent.
-In Thailand, Ranger’s market share was up to 10 percent in the pick-up segment in August for the first time ever.


https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... ter-r.html
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #120 by Cool23 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:57 pm

That is all very interesting But Isuzu have pulled the connection with GM and Holden as Isuzu have made many vehicles for Holden going back to the Jackaroo. The Holden Colorado at present is made by Isuzu. Isuzu do not want to go down the track GM want them to go along and will join up with Mazda to build a super ute. What does this mean? Well the alliance with Ford and Mazda will also most likely fold in the future and that may stop the development of both the Ranger and Everest both built in Thailand Ford Factories. Presently the Mazda BT50 is what the Ranger and Everest are based on and both the Ford and Mazda factories in Thailand are next door to each other.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/464666/gm-a ... -upmarket/

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... d51e34a3c0

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... FB00278B23

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/0 ... h-america/

In the present time Australia is looking to a future with no major vehicle manufacturing. With the exception of Mack, Kenworth etc.

Tomcar are still building here but can not get the vehicle road registered like they can in other countries.
http://www.tomcar.com.au/
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #121 by xctasy » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:12 pm

xctasy wrote:All companies want incentives, and tell you they'll pack up and get the low hanging fruit else-ware. Rio Tinto wants to pull out of Tiwa point at Bluff and stop smelting bauxite for Australia, and it threatens the Government here. It's called economics. http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/04/tiwai_point-2.html

The point I made is that China doesn't cost out HS&E, as there is none to speak of, so any short fall in the general ledger for Ford, Toyota, Holden or CCA in Aussie is as a result of higher costs in those three segments, which cannot be amortized. That's why multinationals ask for money.

Pretty simple. Its time to do the Merv Hughes sledge. If you want cheaper production costs and not to pay, the Fat controller has to collect the tickets some place else. You won't be selling 65000 Falcons this year, and 65000 units is a minimum for break even, so let us sell something that makes the volume. Ford saw this in 1981, when it saw the next Falcon as a front drive LWB Telstar. The fact that China is reselling Rover 75's as the switchabe to rear drive MG 6 should be a clue.


The Government funded T6 is doing it, and the American populace is perplexed as to why Ford doesn't offer it in the US. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/tru ... rst_drive/

If the 126.8 wheel base was cut, and the basic parts used elseware like Ford did in the 60's, smaller segment cars could be serviced from the same production tooling and get the volume back up. An IRS with 112" wheel base 5 dr wagon and 3dr wagon on 105" wheelbase would be killer Territory replacement, and that short wheelbase be the form-work for a cut-down Falcon sedan. Since the side impact crash rules, cars have been getting wider and much longer. This isn't a Leyland p82 style dream its economics and sales.

The Mondeo is now Falcon sized



I think the following proves the point I was making about volume sales back two years ago. Fords design and economic center is the USA, and the decisions to axe the long wheelbase Fairlane/Ltd and replace it with Territory volume was the right one, but then the growth Falcon and Territory numbers failed to perform to get the required 140 000 units to break even.

The way they s/could have done it was like I suggested, to down grade the capacity of thr I6 to XK-XP levels 144/170/200, and then cross over the body engineering. Sort of like taking a Toyota Altezza/ Lexus IS200 and crossing it over to higher volume 4x4 and commericials. Switchable platforms are what Mazda and Isuzu, the minor players in the shot gun weddings, are now doing. So its AMC 1981 all over again, taking a know base, and reheating it. The BT50 was never really Mazdas own. The Isuzu D max was.

The Jeep style SUV-ing Chrysler saved Chrysler America.


Crossovers with shared platforms are it, and Ford Australia lost its opertunity to make them in Australia. The proof is the shear volume sold already in the whole T-6 platform. I'm pretty proud at how this SR5 verses Hlix Surf thing is paying out.

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The Ford Endeavour and Ford Everest are cut down T-6's. Government money was channeled to Ford Australia, now the T-6 platform is making enough volume in Thailand.

Its basically the AMC Eagle Concorde process of reworking a Rambler Hornet all over again.

Image

Now, it just neeeds an AMC Eagle SX4 coupe concept to make the iceing on the cake. Imagine taking Phil Zmoods VA Holden Torana and the related W car concept, such non masculine cars, and letting it live. The effeminate HQ then begat the planned VA and W car concepts, and then...GMH went bankrupt.

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Image

Zmood had it nailed. Over 50% of decisions are made to suit ladies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjBoPC5fDIU


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The platform has given birth to record volume, and Ford Australias loss is the South East Asian and Asia Pacific gain.
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X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Cool23
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #122 by Cool23 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:09 pm

One example of the demise of Auto manufacturing in Australia is the way Tomcar are being treated at present.
The Tomcar vehicle presently will not be permitted to be road registered in Australia yet export vehicles to other counties do get road registration.

A perfect example why the big 3 (Ford, Holden and Toyota) have walked away as no matter what Government is in power they make the rules to hard.

Another example was the LPG rebate and how that worked promoting alternate fuels as well as design and prototype equipment.
I had been working with Diesel /LPG and the set up was fantastic for fuel economy and performance after the government failed to continue support
companies working on many of these interesting set ups folded up leaving many with no support and set ups that have no support become redundent.

The Taxi Industry here used to support the LPG as a cheaper cleaner fuel but now we see them using Hybrid electric petrol vehicles as the LPG support has fallen away and that is a shame as Australia has good access to LPG given it is was once considered a by product of oil production. Now you do not see many vehicles running that LPG even today now you have to make sure you buy quality Propane yet Australia still exports LPG.
V8's are great but Six Inlines Just Fine. Cummins Advert.



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mkeily
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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #123 by mkeily » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:24 am

Well the party is over, the last Falcon rolled off the assembly line last Friday the 7th of October 2016.
A very sad day for the venerable Ford Falcon.

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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #124 by Cool23 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:22 pm

mkeily wrote:Well the party is over, the last Falcon rolled off the assembly line last Friday the 7th of October 2016.
A very sad day for the venerable Ford Falcon.


Did you read my post made back on the 9th ?
V8's are great but Six Inlines Just Fine. Cummins Advert.



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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #125 by Cool23 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:43 pm

The last V6 Engine came off the Holden production line last week. It will be some time before that engine is used.
V8's are great but Six Inlines Just Fine. Cummins Advert.



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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #126 by rocklord » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:10 am

Cool23 wrote:The last V6 Engine came off the Holden production line last week. It will be some time before that engine is used.


That engine will probably wind up as a display next to the first V6 built at the plant;
never to be installed in a vehicle.
Dan

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Re: Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

Post #127 by Cool23 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:50 pm

More than likely the whole (last) car will go into a museum.

Read more here >
http://www.3aw.com.au/news/last-austral ... t026t.html
V8's are great but Six Inlines Just Fine. Cummins Advert.



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