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knock sensor(s)

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sdiesel
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Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

knock sensor(s)

Post #1 by sdiesel » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:30 am

has anyone or have others come up with a definite solution for knock sensor for the 300?
meaning this: to add a sensor;
where
what type
or multiple sensors
water jacket
head
block?

maybe this should be in turbo section?
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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xctasy
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Re: knock sensor(s)

Post #2 by xctasy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:16 pm

Board index Performance Alley Turbo, Supercharger, and Nitrous Turbo forum. :thumbup:

viewforum.php?f=22



Elseware I posted this to Mike1157, who has a huge turbo, 9:1 compression, huge boost 250 I6

Aussie EECIV's used them too. Pin outs on the US Big Six, different. Carb, EECIV and TFI had them on the 4.9.

EFI unleaded 4.1 had TFI and the same US derived EECIV stratergy.

See http://www.fordmods.com/documents.php?d=43

The common E6RF 12A69BA sensor is the orange inserted item in one of XFlow_Fairlane's post #6

All later Aussie EECIV EFI's had Pin 23 hooked up to the Knock Sensor (Unleaded Only, we wnent unleaded only in 1986, not 1975 as in the US)

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54364

Image

Image

You just need to come down on total advance.

All X-flow Canted valve heads have 302 Boss/ 351 Boss closed chamber properties, so there is poor gas flow incomming, and excessive quench. Ford Australia started with Leaded 97 octane the heighest lead value in the world untill 1986. Then they dropped the compression ratio from 9.35:1 to 8.6 or 8.8:1, and added 1986 E6 Mustang style high swirl ramps and EECIV TFI spark reduction stratergy. That allowed 91 octance to give the same power as 97 leaded.


So you have to do the same, and quell detonation by tipping in advance retard under boost. High static advance, then no more than 23 total, and maybee even less than 16 under boost.


The front head stud takes a knock sensor on X flow Fords. ARP stud kits aren't drilled for the battery earth which also fits the KS.

Early log head Falcons had a front US passenger side thread drilled into the head bolt.

The bolt is basically the Cleveland type, 7/8"taller than the old 200/250 non cross flow logger. It has a screw in thread, and a Piezo electric knock sensor was used to trim the spark advance.

You can use it to peal back advance under load.


Don't be affraid of knocking back advance...low advance tollerance and a lack of incipient knock is proof of efficient combustion. Thats what all box code WA1 EECIV ecu's have, essentially 1987-1997 4.9 F150 and 1980-1991 5.8 G code VV7200 P71 knock sensor logic.


Its the whole reason why Ford Special Vehicles killed most of the 1970 to 1978 Cleveland race engines, and why dumb a$$e$ who put earlier Durasparks on TFI EECIV 4.1s ended up taking them out....


Oh yeah, now I remember..

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=59435

xctasy wrote:When I did mine, I used the coomon 60 pin plug EEC 4 Ford Falcon XF 1986 to 1991 E6RF-12A69BA item, which looks similar to the old EEC3 and EEC4 Panther platform items for 302 and 351 from 1981 to 1991. It mounts on the common earth strap for the log head bolt number one, US drivers side front bolt. The Alloy head bolt, also used on Classic Inlines engines, is about 0.875" taller, but uses the same sensor bolt as my 1972 XA Falcon engine.

The sensor is Fig 13 on the Page 221 Tomco website listing http://www.tomco-inc.com/Catalog/knock%20sensors.pdf, looks the same as the F150 4.9 six as well. Tomco 22 or 42 (29022 and 29042)

Tomco listes them differently to Standard Parts #KSxx listings, but the Ford knock sensor was the first to the US market in 1981 as a type 21 item, Tomco part number 290021.

The Aussie ford item just polls an on off 3 volt signal back to the EEC4, and that cuts the TFI timing back.


Since its a Honda head, it needs Larry Widmer Honda logic.

He uses the GM'S 1986-1996 1997562,10456017,10456287 (Tomco 29014) knock sensor on his 480 hp VTECH engines


Image

He also uses a GM knock sensor, which he learned about while he was in the stock car biz. “I got busted for running them in NASCAR…that and traction control,” he recalls with a grin.



Those Metal Lines Running Underneath The Headers Are Strain Gauges That Measure Cylinder Distortion. If The Cylinders Start To Flex Too Much, The Engine Management System Automatically Reduces Timing And Adds Fuel.


Lastly, Copper head gaskets require indxed spark plugs, since the engine requires very critical set up.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

sdiesel
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Re: knock sensor(s)

Post #3 by sdiesel » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:08 pm

wow thanku.
im not getting all of this but will keep rereading till i do.
if i want to use the gm sensor, and i do, i want to be sure the frequency matches as closely as possible my inline 300, or so its been explained to me.
and i picked up the notion that i want to read knock through the water jacket.
am i way off here?
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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xctasy
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Re: knock sensor(s)

Post #4 by xctasy » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:18 pm

sdiesel wrote:wow thanku.
im not getting all of this but will keep rereading till i do.
if i want to use the gm sensor, and i do, i want to be sure the frequency matches as closely as possible my inline 300, or so its been explained to me.
and i picked up the notion that i want to read knock through the water jacket.
am i way off here?



Nah, you can use the side of the block, but a side plate six rattles a little, and may set it off.

The front of a 144-250 head stud goes into the water of the block, and gets the signal fast.

If you have them wired the way Fords EECIV or EECV does, if its faulty through

wire oxidization,
high pressure water blaster damage, or
through wrong mounting,

it'll just put in fuel, pull out timing and leave you with a car that chews gas, won't start and has no go

Go back to this and read up on the home made stuff in this 15 post stub to get an idea.

viewtopic.php?t=59435

http://www.viatrack.ca/

2nd last post Post #14 by redxm » Fri Sep 06, 201



then
FLSHBCK wrote:FWIW, GM 3800 Series II have 2, one on each side in the middle of the block, just below the exhaust manifolds - they screw into the water jacket...
you'll be able to understand how to use the GM ones.

Good fortune!


PS.

i like the Ford US stuff, but most Aussie EECV's use a similar Tomco's common 29061 1998 Ford and Mercury 1998-1999 # F8CZ 12A699 AA part with a two pin power up, and a second pin sensor check. If its got the partial OBDII like ours have, you can pull a DTC P0325 fault code.

AU II 6cyl Knock Sensor

Knock sensor colour wires are two Yellow/Red wire to pins 32 & 57 of the ECU, going by diagram it should be straight loom from knock sensor to ECU

Pin 32 should read 0v ign on & 0.2v with engine running.
Pin 57 should read 0.2v when ign on or engine running.



http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/foru ... ock-Sensor

Fig 22 on page 21 of there PDF

http://www.tomco-inc.com/Catalog/knock%20sensors.pdf


Somewhere Jack Collins told me what the normal threshold was, or BenWolfe from here and FEP. IIRC, they are super simple, as soon as there is knock, it zeros voltage.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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