Tri Power Again

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Fordman75
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #51 by Fordman75 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:42 pm

161henry wrote:you guys have any recommendations on an afr gauge? Is there any reason st spend a bunch of money?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00N3VGP ... ref=plSrch


Whatever brand you go with, you need a wide band AFR gauge.



And the intake looks good.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #52 by 161henry » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:30 pm


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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #53 by 161henry » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm


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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #54 by 161henry » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:40 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ws978kxbx6eg ... .jpg?raw=1

the first pic is a piece of black pipe with ball bearings in both ends. This is an idler sprocket with a sealed bearing. the sprocket is solid and the shaft uses the bearing. other than that ready bolt, rebar, door hinges and a little welding. I have a lot of tuning to do but my first test drive was impressive. this set up really woke the 300 up.

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #55 by pmuller9 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:05 pm

161henry wrote:the first pic is a piece of black pipe with ball bearings in both ends. This is an idler sprocket with a sealed bearing. the sprocket is solid and the shaft uses the bearing. other than that ready bolt, rebar, door hinges and a little welding. I have a lot of tuning to do but my first test drive was impressive. this set up really woke the 300 up.


Image
Image

Love it when a plan comes together with great results :thumbup:

Did you tack weld the nuts on the threaded rod to the linkage arms so the arms won't come loose?

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #56 by 161henry » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:53 pm

I'll tack weld everything up when I'm sure it's where a want it.

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #57 by xctasy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:10 am

Alright! 8)
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #58 by 161henry » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:32 am

I need to put a return spring on each carb. Right now I have one on the shaft. I think that will insure all 3 return closed. I'm running the 2 outside carbs with the idle screws clear in and throttle plates closed at idle. the center carb is a little different. it's older and slightly shorter but I'll find a 3rd to match. I'm going to fine tune some things today. A slow process because I'm learning but it fun. I have 3 of the 4 inch louverd air cleaners ordered. I'm amazed but it looks like the factory fuel pump will keep up. It pulls like a freight train now. The 4 speed tranny has a huge jump between 2nd and 3rd. Before I'd run the RPMs to 4000 and it would just die in third. not so much now.

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #59 by 161henry » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:44 pm

My front carb, the throttle plate doesn't seal very well when completely closed. I've tried loosening the screws and adjusting it. It's better but not good enough. Any suggestions?

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #60 by xctasy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:26 pm

Find another YFA with the same base that isn't worn.


You got a 2060 carb body casting number for Carb No 2 , with some kinda 644x throttle body casting number.

and 2138 carb body casting number for Carb No 3 , with some kinda 644x throttle body casting number.

A 7115S throttle body might work.


Find another 1-11/16 th throttle body YFA carb. They are all pretty much alike.



The stock 300 big six jet was 104-105-106 to 107 thou jet size. Which you can still get anywhere from Edlebrock.

Most most Metering rods (aka needles) were sized for an engine with bang on 114 net hp at the flywheel. Which is what a 170 hp Gross 300 was.

The 1987-1997 EFi made about 170 hp net due to the headers, ignition and intake improvements.

There are other smaller main jets in the 92 or 98 thou sizes for the small sixes. These were made to calibrate the carbs air fuel right down for engine ratings of 75 hp for the 170 cube Maverick (105 hp Gross) or 83 hp net 200 Falcon or Maverick sixes (115-120 hp Gross).


On LTD's or F100 with the 240 Bid Sixes or the Mustang 250 or Ranchero 250's, which were about 93-99 hp net , the factory 140 to 155 gross rating engines used another jet size and another thicker metering rod.

AMC Jeep 199's and 232's put out about 85 to 100 hp net, so any jet and metering rod combination for an AMC YFA will be rated about the same as a 240/250 or 300 metering rod and jet combination.

So you can lean or richen up the whole engine by estimating how much flywheel hp you'll make net. Each one of the three carbs is only looking for about 60 hp net of fuel, so if you can find thicker metering rods from the 170, 200 or 240 with some smaller 92 to 98 thou jets, that might get you into the right air fuel mix zone easier.


But you know, I'd say what you have right now will allow you to find a good metering rod profile.

If the cam is stock, then it'll not make anymore than 175 hp net at best when all three carbs are jetted bang on. So I'd say the ideal jet sizes are what serves the needs of each group of two cylinders.


The best carb is the a brace of three two step EECIV or MCU truck feedback carb's. The little 2.5 XJ Jeep or Ranger 2.0 or 2.3, or the so called troublesome 4.9 Big Six feedback carbs from 1981 to 1986.

They are able to use the MCS adjuster to sweep the air fuel ratio right into the sweet 12:1 for power and 16.1 for cruise value with any one of the stock metering rods and main jets. You adjust the air fuel ratio by duty cycle (read....pulse width). You run that by tuning the duty width off a MegaSquirt MS2E control box, that also allows you to use the stock TFI EFi igntion. There is a rich or lean Mixture Control Solenoid, one for the 2.0/2.3 Ranger or 2.5 Jeep, and another for the 4.9 Big Six.


Ford and AMC started ditching that technolgy in 1985, not because its sucked, but because the EPA had other better regulatory ideas that ment Carter carb production was unecconmic. Port EFi became the only game it town.

The YFA is the best carb ever made. You just have to find the right parts.


"Converting to a Carter YF and Throttle Cable" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72607&p=562727#p562727

"Flat spot with Carter YFA" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76774

"Surging with a Carter YFA? " viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76871&p=591996#p591996

"Need sizing for a carb for my 68 F100" viewtopic.php?t=77315


My standard offer is this:

Black Hawk Engineering do a reprofilr service for sub 94 thou jets

To Choose dimensions for a new metering rod.

The example here is for a 94 thou jet single YH Carter side draft, but all the YF's and YFA's share the same metering rod shank dimension capabilities

If you have measured air/fuel ratio numbers for cruise and power, you can then adjust the flow areas proportionately.

For example, if you have a power A/F ratio of 11 to 1 and you would like to have a ratio of 12 to 1, the ratio is 11 divided by 12 or .92. If your current power flow area is 300, multiply .92 times 300 equals 276. Look in the General tables for the jet size you are using and find the flow area closest to 276. Then read the corresponding metering rod diameter. Do the same type of calculations for the cruise step.

Our current manufacturing process is limited to diameters of .054 to .094".

If the metering rod you want falls outside of this range, you will have to choose another jet size to find a combination that works. The available jet sizes are .077, .080, .083, .086, .089, .092, .095, .098, .101, .104, .107, .110, .113, .116 and .119"


That then means tracking down a common junked Jeep 258, 2.5 liter I4, Ford 0HC 2.3, 170/200/250/240/300 jet. You'll get lucky enough from from this...I'll help out, its just math. You'll just have to warm up your car up for 10 minutes, and get C02 readings or air fuel readings.


Then you tell me what your metering rod codes are, and i'll tell you how to get the right Air fuel ratios from the existing needles.

Jetting is based on having a good ignition advance curve, and the right plug heat range. With a wide band and actual air fuel readings, you can dial in or out fuel just by swapping main jets and metering rods. There are hunders around, and the latest Edelbrock 1400 series carbs have the same min jets as the old YF, as well as simiar metering rod profiles. So you just look up the Carter YF jet tables, and find a leaner or richer Metering Rod and jet combination to suit. No different to tuning an AFB, or Rochester Quadrajet.
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #61 by xctasy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:27 pm

xctasy wrote:Image



Yup. :thumbup: :nod: 10 up from the bottom, page 241. 75-2079. Exactly it.

http://www.troberg-larsen.priv.no/mopar ... g_rods.jpg.

Main jet should be 98. 120-398 Carter code.

600 series Edelbrock 4-bbl main jets

Main jets:
Size: Carter: Edelbrock: Jet call name, Ford call name
.098 120-398 1427; fits #75-2079, (Blue line underneath). Its possibly similar to 1969 240 F100 carb tag # C8UF-M
.101 120-401 1429; *
.104 120-404 1430; *
.107 120-407 1431; #75-2175 or 75-2176 (Red lines underneath)
.110 120-410 1432; #75-2346 *

*= D2 prefix are all for 1972 engines;
the only D2 carb showing for a 72 300 has a main jet of .110",
all the rest (four) are for 240's,
three of which call for a .104" jet
and the fourth one is .101".

From "Converting to a Carter YF and Throttle Cable" Post #39 by xctasy » Sat Apr 25, 2015

Metering Rods to be added to this post as info comes to hand

From 56mulberry

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51599

75-2189 is leanest F100 1977 300 Metering Rod, whic will be with the .107 jet.

75-1862 is a common 3 step Jeep 258 needle Overall Length: 2.58" "Power Tip" Diameter: .045" Cruise Rod Diameter: .075"

Care of John Strenk at JeepForum.Com

post #7 of 14 Old 12-26-2009, 07:25 AM
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/carte ... ch-932262/

This is THE gif for the YF Carter, all types.

Image

And this is the adjustment

Image


About the only thing that will bite is the inclusion in some Ford YFA's of a Metering Rod Arm Plate, with a hole ID: .185" and overall length of 1.050"

Starting 1973, SOME Ford YFA's got a TSB for adding washers to the metering rod arm to make it work better on hills.

Its also 1977 on wards to approx 1980 Ford TSB Part, called a "step-up limiter shim", found on some off road Fords, that is sold by QuadraJet parts under PN # 2584G https://quadrajetparts.com/metering-rod ... -1166.html.

Image

Don't use it if some one has put it in.

Some rebuilders put platic metering rod arm protectors , a so called "anti-rock" plate from a 1980 and later Carter YFA's. They don't help an early carb.
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FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #62 by xctasy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:14 am

When you get No 1 carb's throttle body straightened out, look at the trim of your stock metering rod with and approximate 100 thou jet. 98 to 102 thou, all the basic calculations are the same.


This post is cut down from my SU/ Zenith~Stromberg/ Hitachi post.


A YF Carter is just a reversed Constant Depression carb, and the same annualar area calculations between the main jet and the metering rod apply. If you want more fuel, reduce the needle size. If you wan't it leaner, find a thicker metering rod.



Power per carb at wide open throttle would most likely be 60 hp each, or 180 hp net.


A 55 thou metering rod tip would give that horsepower with a 100 thou main jet.

Look back through the YF metering rods for one like that as a suggestion.


You can go back to getting a jewler to custom make three brass metering rod for you with the right dimensions.


BlackHawk make them on a CNC lath if you want to go back to a 94 thou main jet.


A 47 thou metering rod tip dimension would work with a 94 thou jet.



viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8483&hilit=SU+NEEDLES

xctasy wrote:
Chart 2: For 100 thou Jet
NB: The needles are not interchangable between models, and have a specific stamping number from which there is are about 13 to 16 width measurements available from reference data. Selecting valid jets requires correct spring and progression tunning profile to find the best choice.

|Max. Jet Thickness| Annular jet Area|Power at 15.2:1|Power at 12.5:1|
|-80 thou" thick at tip|-- 2827*E-6------|--43 Mean Bhp--|-35 Mean Bhp--|
|-75 thou" thick at tip|-- 3298*E-6------|--50 Mean Bhp--|-41 Mean Bhp--|
|-70 thou" thick at tip|-- 3770*E-6------|--57 Mean Bhp--|-47 Mean Bhp--|
|-65 thou" thick at tip|-- 4241*E-6------|--64 Mean Bhp--|-53 Mean Bhp--|
|-60 thou" thick at tip|-- 4712*E-6------|--71 Mean Bhp--|-59 Mean Bhp--|
|-55 thou" thick at tip|-- 5183*E-6------|--79 Mean Bhp--|-65 Mean Bhp--|
|-50 thou" thick at tip|-- 5655*E-6------|--86 Mean Bhp--|-71 Mean Bhp--|
|-45 thou" thick at tip|-- 6126*E-6------|--93 Mean Bhp--|-77 Mean Bhp--|
|-40 thou" thick at tip|-- 6587*E-6------|-100 Mean Bhp-|-83 Mean Bhp--|


Note 1: Peak power is based on having one carb per two cylinders, and assumes an efficient intake manifold with short intake runners.

Note 2: Power is calculated by annular jet area at wide open throttle (assuming correct spring selection) multiplied by 15194 for 15.2:1 stoichometric ratio, or 18417 for richer 12.5:1 power air fuel ratio. This is based on a 5.5 cc/min fuel flow per net hp, or a 6.6 cc/min fuel flow per net hp rating for the richer setting. Peak cc/sec is based on a few dyno runs by David Vizard tests on Mini engines. The peak hp readings of many British cars, converted to SAE net, was rated against jet area to determine flow. It could be argued that this is fairly nebulus, but it works very accurately.

Note 3: There is a change in flow rate at lower needle lifts, and there is a flow area change as the needle goes up and down. Given the astounding number of metering rods and the ability to change the rod area with minute or large passes of a jewlers needle file, there is no way a more specific jet selection can be made. But its a good start, in my opinion.
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FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #63 by 161henry » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:18 pm

Right now I’m working on the front carbs throttle plate. I have the front and rear carbs apart they both have 120-401 jets. The front metering rod is a 75-1967. The rear rod is a 75-1854. I have a spare rod 75-1867. I’ll take the middle apart and see what’s in there. I need to re read all this info so it sinks in. I’m shooting for 200hp or what ever I can get

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #64 by 161henry » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:09 pm

Middle is 120-401. Metering rod is a 75-1840

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #65 by 161henry » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:29 pm

If I understand correctly. When you say I need a needle with a .055 tip to start with my .101 jet. Am I thinking correctly when I say .101-.055=.046? So does that mean any combination of jet and needle that equals .046 is a good starting place? There are quite a few needles on ebay

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #66 by 161henry » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:34 pm

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2678273975.

Like these with a .093 or .094 jet

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #67 by xctasy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 pm

Fix the front carb throttle body, first, and then just keep a tab on what metering rods you have.

75-2280 metering rods a just common in between the red line mixtures in the table above. I guess there's no point on buying them unless you need 'em.


101 jets lean the mixture out some.

The goal is to get it mechainically right, and then zone in on some better metering rods after you get some idle, cruise and wide open throttle air fuel readings.


Then re set your ignition, and then decide if you need to change anything. Get your ignition advance charted first. Noramlly, its pretty close if its Durasaprk II.


Having odd metering rods isn't really an issue just yet. Only change one part at a time.

Metering rods, they are everywhere.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #68 by 161henry » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:51 pm

xctasy wrote:Fix the front carb throttle body, first, and then just keep a tab on what metering rods you have.

75-2280 metering rods a just common in between the red line mixtures in the table above. I guess there's no point on buying them unless you need 'em.


101 jets lean the mixture out some.

The goal is to get it mechainically right, and then zone in on some better metering rods after you get some idle, cruise and wide open throttle air fuel readings


Then re set your ignition, and then decide if you need to change anything. Get your ignition advance charted first. Noramlly, its pretty close if its Durasaprk II.


Having odd metering rods isn't really an issue just yet. Only change one part at a time.

Metering rods, they are everywhere.


Ok I was thinking i should have everything the same after I fix the front carb. I’m kinda thinking about giving some $70 China carter clones a try. But I’ll get these working

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #69 by xctasy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:06 pm

161henry wrote:If I understand correctly. When you say I need a needle with a .055 tip to start with my .101 jet. Am I thinking correctly when I say .101-.055=.046? So does that mean any combination of jet and needle that equals .046 is a good starting place? There are quite a few needles on ebay


With a 100 thou jet, a tip of 58 thou would be my recommendation. Thats about 186 hp at 12.5:1 air fuel ratio at wide open throttle.

So its just the tip size, removed from the jet size to get annular area. The fatter the metering rod, the leaner the mix. Adding an extra couple of carbs means you have to go leaner as each carb is doing less work, and needs a thicker metering rod to load less fuel.

Any of the .58 tip metering rods on the chart would be my pick. I'd stay with the .101 jets, and find any kind of .58 metering rod.




75-2009 or 75-1924 would be ideal. Three step metering rods with your 101 jets. You can richen up when you have evidence that they need it by looking at the next 55 thou tip metering rods.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #70 by 161henry » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:51 pm

Ok thanks I received the air cleaners Friday. And took a little ride after I fixed the front carb https://youtu.be/BnuMJuDPEcY

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #71 by 161henry » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:38 pm

I have the bugs worked out of the linkage. I put the metering rods with at .048 tip in all 3 carbs. The plugs show it’s still rich but it pulls and idles very well. The timing is set at 11 btdc. I’m assuming the next step is to try the .095 jets I have?? What changes should I look at for the timing?? The cam is comp cams 260H.

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #72 by xctasy » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:20 am

Use the stock ignition timing. The vacuum advance won't be as high due to less signal to the vacuum advance diaphram. Static advance is okay as it is, and you can bump up the base timing from the stock 9 degrees. Ford was very carefull to advoid over advancing these engines when they went to the Autolite igntion, and kept peak advance down below 38 degrees right throu the electronic igntion era.

Most times multiple carbs are used, the kind of timing is dropped back to mechnaical with no or very little mechanical advance. You can try different porting for the vaccum advance, as the stock system for the 70's era Durasaprk II had a few other gizmos.

The best option now that you have no carb heating, no other spark sustain fittings, and no hot air stove is to do loaded readings on the road warm up after 5 mintues, with your camera at night, and tie that into your throttle postions.

You hook up your timing light to the radiator with the strobe on, and strap your camera or cell phone so you can read the crank balancer. Then chart actual distributor total advance from idle to 4500 rpm. Normally. you can use a long rod to turn on the the strobe function with a passanger to help.

:hmmm: Don't treat your passenger like the rat up front.....


Rat Rods 4 Eva!


Going down mains is okay to get the same result as adding thickness and leaness to the metering rod.

The Chart 3 jet area is for 100 thou, and is the area in square inches exposed when the eclipsed section of the rod tip is removed.


Area is (Area 1-Area 2). The Jet area at 100 thou, minus the Metering rod "shank", middle or in this case, the tip.

Only thing is if your main jet goes down in size, you can have it hang up in the idle or low end area, and make it hard to tune.


Try 95's after you've made sure the ignition is repeatable and stable, with the plugs and leads in great shape.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #73 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 am

xctasy wrote:The best option now that you have no carb heating, no other spark sustain fittings, and no hot air stove is to do loaded readings on the road warm up after 5 mintues, with your camera at night, and tie that into your throttle postions.

You hook up your timing light to the radiator with the strobe on, and strap your camera or cell phone so you can read the crank balancer. Then chart actual distributor total advance from idle to 4500 rpm. Normally. you can use a long rod to turn on the the strobe function with a passanger to help.

What a novel idea in this age of GoPro recording devices.
Reminds me of the old days of Ford Indy racing when one of Ford's best development engineers, Peter Chen, would stand astride a V8 running at full song WOT on the dyno, one foot on the left valve cover and one foot on the right, leaning down and making tuning adjustments on the fly. Brave soul.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #74 by old28racer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:27 pm

Peter Chen must of had a lot of confidence in his motor builds! :mrgreen:


I've built a lot of SBC / BBC race motors but I am still a back yard mechanic. :nod:
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #75 by 161henry » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:14 pm

Just took a test drive with the 2280 rods and .095 jets. That combination has ok bottom end and WOT but stumbles horrible mid range. I pulled number 1 plug and it’s white. I’m thinking to lean now. Really I think it pulled the best with mix matched metering rods .040,.042.5 and a .45 with the .101 jets. What do you guys think?

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #76 by xctasy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:26 am

In my opinion, the igntion stresses out under lean conditions. The focus should be ignition, not carburation jetting unless you have evidence.


But hey, its easy to change the middle section of the rods, or go to three 97 jet''s.



http://www.blackhawkengr.com/Black%20Hawk%20Engineering%20-%20Metering%20Rods%20-%20Hints.htm wrote:
Get baseline readings

Although you can detect lean surge or gross richness without test equipment, in order to make precision adjustments, you should measure the mixture using an Oxygen sensor or Exhaust Gas Analyzer. We recommend using an Oxygen sensor since tests can be run in the car under load during a variety of weather and traffic conditions. An Oxygen sensor and Air/fuel ratio gauge can be purchased for less than $100. Wide band oxygen sensors are accurate or a much wider range and are available for about $300. We have had good success using Innovate Motorsports products. You should analyze 4 conditions: idle, cruise, power and the transition from cruise to power.

Idle mixture is adjusted by turning the idle mixture screw. All the other conditions are set by a combination of the main jet and the metering rod. The metering rod blocks part of the opening of the main jet reducing the fuel flow. The metering rod has 3 areas that control fuel flow. The larger diameter step limits fuel flow at lower airflow rates for better fuel economy. The smaller diameter step causes less restriction of the jet for greater fuel flow at high airflow rates for increased power. The taper between the steps effects the transition between cruise and power. The accelerator pump also affects the transition phase. The position of the rod is determined by a combination of throttle position and vacuum.

Air/fuel ratios are a comparison of the weight of fuel consumed compared to the weight of air consumed by an engine. The ratio by volumes is, of course, much greater. Carbureted engines produce best power at an Air/fuel ratio of between 11.5 to 1 and 13 to 1. Best fuel economy occurs with leaner ratios, typically between 14 to 1 and 17 to 1. The ideal or stoichoimetric ratio is 14.7, but engines will typically run leaner under light loads for better economy. Usually a ratio between 14 to 1 and 12 to 1 is required for a smooth idle since the engine is not very efficient at very low speeds.


Proceed cautiously

Make small changes and check the effects of each change with the engine at full operating temperature on a warm day. Ignition and carburetor settings that work on a cool engine on a cool day may cause damage to a hot engine on a hot day. It is easier to damage a turbocharged engine than a normally aspirated engine since producing the additional horsepower creates additional heat.

The most important engine protection device you have is your throttle foot. If you hear pinging or feel rough running, lift your foot and solve the problem before continuing.



If you have a digital caliper, you can retrim the 75-2280 metering rods with a needle file you'd use for your chain saw. You reduce the size of the section from the inermediate zone. Step 2 in the 3 steps.

Step 1 (idle)
Step 2 (Cruise)
Step 3 ( power).

This is the zone 2 is where a traditional Duraspark II fails to cover over. Vacuum is gone under load, so the ignition advance is wrong at that point. Jetting rich might cover it over.

Just a hedz up. Later 1985-late 1996 TFi or an aftermarket MegaJolt with either TFi EDIS6 will cover over jetting issues with intense spark which allows more adjustabliity. Most jetting changes for performance carb cars is actually due to lean missfire.





Back to the topic.

If idle and WOT is good, then its just the power transition that needs a little richening up. But beware! Carter diameter tolerances for the rods were +- (plus or minus) 0.00002 inch. Surface texture and quality was a function of superb mass production techniques, and if you dabble with 'em you have to keep tabs on what you've done.


All Carter and Rod operated Rochesters have a similar kind of metering rod taper, but it differs in detail.

single step, 2-step, 3-step, and 4-step


The hook or angle at the top and total distance of length changes.

Each series (i.e. AFB, AVS, WCD, WO, WCFB, YH, YF etc.) have their own group of rods with multiple rod lengths; all series have variable step diameters and step lengths.

Good news is your garden variety 3 step triple didgit 75-XXXX YFA Carter Metering Rod Overall Length's are all 2-37/64" or 2.58" (6.54844 cm) long.


Older rods, like the WO and earlier YH's were 3 -23/64” (8.53281cm), with some later WO's and WGD's 3.485" 3-31/64" or (8.8503 cm).

Its common to get some rods that look the same that are actaully 1/8" taller.


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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #77 by 161henry » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:41 am

Are you saying the correct thing to no is recurve the distributor or get the edsi6? I understand the lean condition and filing the rod. But is that the right way to fix it? Or is this about as good as it gets until I put a wide band on it?

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #78 by xctasy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:21 am

161henry wrote:Are you saying the correct thing to no is recurve the distributor or get the edsi6? I understand the lean condition and filing the rod. But is that the right way to fix it? Or is this about as good as it gets until I put a wide band on it?



As good as it gets untill you get the wide band.

The risk is that you'll spend time retriming the mixture from the cruise to power step, and then find that you've richend it up too much.

The Air Fuel ratios have to be established before you change them.


Since you are able to do so, I believe your reported plug readings, and your free to richen things up on the second step of the meteing rod if you like.

75-2280's are .075, .057 and .047 for Step 1, 2 and 3.

The amount to remove is about 5 thou by neede file, so the 57 thou Step 2 goes from .057 along its length to .052. You find the right tool, and wittle that section away, and then emery cloth or P 1500 wet and dry sand paper, then a clean off with a great cleaner. All three metering rods.

The trick is to look at what you can do yourself without running into a lean condition. You know its lean right now, so you can richen up the section between the power tip to the cruise section of the three 75-2280 rods, and that will spike the richness when you give it throttle when cruising.


On a 95 jet, your 75-2280 metering rod that did 12.5 power and 15.5 :1 one at cruise under a 1-bbl carb with 101 jet probably is close to being way too lean under transtion from Cruise to power.


Image


Tuning is Diagnosis, Remedy or , hopefully, Cure.

Air fuel changes are Remedy.

Fat Ignition with money spent making sure its not sticking, and making dependable advance through the rev range under load is important. Air Fuel tuning in that situation will cure it.

You are doing it thrice if you spend time trying to fix air fuel ratio off the cruise to power circuit if you actually have a huge ignition advance hole on acceleration. Often, the vac advance is a problem.

I doubt you'll kill anything on a light rat rod with a 300 and SROD, but sometimes waiting till you have better info is okay too.

Before you fiddle with the metering rods, grab a timing light, and baseline stuff like cr_bobcat did.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72349&p=555788#p555788

#7 by cr_bobcat » Fri Aug 15, 2014

cr_bobcat wrote:Alright, the results for timing events with vacuum disconnected are in:

RPM Timing Vacuum
-------------------------
1000 17 0
1250 19 DNM
1500 25 DNM
1750 31 5"
2000 33 7"
2250 33 8"
2500 33 9"

I forgot to look at my vacuum gauge for a couple of measurements. I didn't have time this morning to shut it down and tee into a manifold vacuum source, but do these ported values look healthy or not?

It looks like I have about 16/17* of mechanical advance and then about the same 16/17* of vacuum advance. Appears that vacuum starts to kick in at around 1600-1700. Looks like I'm all in, mechanically, at 2000 RPM. I'm wondering if my numbers are a tad off because I've typically heard mechanical to be in the 20-24* range and vacuum to be 12-16*. Do I need to slow down and retake these measurements?

Obviously, there is some variability in the measurements since this is me eyeballing something and I can very much see how a Sun machine would help out in tuning these things down to the gnats arse. That being said, I think I will definitely go forward with doing the mods myself until such time as I build up the new engine. With that I think I'll want to eeck every last ounce out of her and will only want to incur the cost of the recurve once. The local guy here doesn't even have his machine at the shop anymore because of lack of use so I may have to be talking to one of you guys to help me out when that time comes.




If you want the best spark and not to have to mess around, try the MegaJolt, and either the stock TFi or any one of the Power on #1 or power on #4 EDIS 6 modules. Ford totally aced the class on this stuff, its junk yard, and much MissUnderstood.

(A '96 Mustang 3.8l V6 or a '98 F-150 4.2 V6 has the power on #4 [as the Megajolt installation manual shows], a '90-'11 Ranger 4.0 V6 has power on #1. So, there doesn't appear to be any obvious year split. All the Megajolt & MegaSquirt documentation assumes you've got a coil pack with power on #4. You have to know where your coil came from in order to know!)


thesameguy found all his My FordSix Igntion Won't Idle, Run or My carb won't Idel or Run without flat spots


95% of it is all Ignition scatter related (small sixes have timing chains that are sh!+ and cause huge spark scatter, but bix sixes don't but still have a wealth of ignition issues),

the rest 2.5% is crappy fuel in fuel pumps and float bowels and just sometimes .... 2.5% its carb jetting. :wink:

TFi or EDIS6 will help viewtopic.php?f=98&t=67718

If you want your Duraspark II mint, then call Wsa111 orpa

For cheap air fuel, I'd use three two wire heated O2 sendsor and a multi meter.


Narrow band sensors output a voltage from 0-1v representing 14:1 and 15:1 AFR - 14 is lean, 14.5 is stoich, and 15 is good. Not much range, not much resolution. You can read the output from a narrow band on something as simple as a multimeter. But you can get em anywhere, and use the header tubes and a common

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... read/page7

Walking-Tall wrote:Remembered my camera can take video, and figured out how to do that today, enjoy, lol

~ Some AFR (mV from O2 sensor) video clips from today (don't mind the mess, we're testing gawldangit, LOL!) :p


Idle, in Neutral and in Drive (14+:1):

Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks3bjwStjhI



Normal acceleration to 50KPH/30MPH (~15.5-16:1):

Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOOFG5pQmo


Cruise @ 65KPH/40MPH (16.5+:1):

Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POvm2KiCl7g


Throttle blip on gravel, lol, and then a couple WOT's (~12.9-13.2:1)... on the lean side:

Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsK4GuxttCI

- finally checked WOT after this with the pedal flat-on-the-floor and there was another ~1/4" pull required at the carburetor. So, in this video it wasn't actually going fully to WOT, which is also why it didn't kick down the 2nd time I trounced on it. I pinched a ~1/4" fishing line sinker onto the accelerator pedal end of the cable for that bit more pull. Now she opens wide. :)


So yeah, I'm quite happy with her function, minus WOT. I'll feel better with PVCR's a bit bigger for ~12.5:1... to be continued... :tu:




I wouldn't use a wide band. With a split header, you can use stock Ford heated O2 sensors and get a great result cheaply. And you can check average with a back sensor, and both tubes off the header with two fronts.

I wouldn't use Duraspark. Not that I'm against it at all, it is quite brilliant.

:hmmm: :idea: But If you gonna, call wsa111 on this forum
billythedistributorman@live.com

, or my other friend Faron FalconSedanDelivery

Image

There are other ways to do things. In the end, its your choice how you go about making a tri power yield lean cruise, a great transition, and a nice fat fuel curve under load.


:mrgreen: One other thing. You can spacer up the internals of the intake to get better fuel distribution. Fuel as it gets on the lean side can fail to hit the target audience. If the front banks of three are lean and the back banks rich, then you can pope the tube open in the itake, and put an alloy plate in it to trouser leg the fuel from the three carbs into the six cylinders. It might just be a simple case of reducing the plenumb volume, and you don't need much at all on an I6.

Rat Rods ForEva.
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #79 by 161henry » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:39 pm

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/for ... oxygen+(o2)+sensor,5132

So if I get 2 of these I can use a multimeter to read air fuel ratios??

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #80 by 161henry » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:42 pm

I guess the link didn’t work but it’s an O2 sensor for a 95 F150 with a 4.9

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #81 by drag-200stang » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:13 am

This may or not help you but my tri power tuning issues went away when I screwed filters directly in the carbs and then drove it some...Then tore down each carb all the way, not disturbing the filter, defuzzed the gaskets, cleaned out all passages...After that no more issues.. Some times it took a couple of tear downs to get what was missed the first time.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #82 by xctasy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:09 am

Focus on the basics. Cheap is good, and firewood scientifically doesn't heat any different bought or hunted out yourself, but I love falsely beliveing fire wood gathered yourself warms you up more.


O2 schematics for the heated O2 sesnors Ford started using with the EFI 2.3, the last Mustang CFi 5.0 HO automatics, and every post 1986 EFi Ford are cheap, and normally you get them from wreckers yards because they are really everywhere.



Other Carter guys here have seen a range of parts that work really well.


Gearing, Carter carbs, then fine tuning using simple, age old technology.

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=76024
OpelGT+3point3 wrote:You could play with tire sizes to dial in the rpm you want to go to; then make the expensive switch. Put an O2 sensor in your exhaust for an air/fuel gauge and maybe even hook a choke cable to your dist to test different timings. Every motor is DIFFERENT.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #83 by xctasy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:31 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74153
xctasy wrote:
OpelGT+3point3 wrote:I took a few pics showing the size of the intake ports and the angle I cut the tops off; toward the valve cover. Plus with some studded head bolts inserted to provide an anchor for eyebolts to attach the new intake. I cut the angle because I want the intake lower; coming out level instead of upwards. The upper section I angled off was the inner radius of the curved port; it will be a smooth transition without any severe angles. My head is cast steel as denoted by the grinding sparks; light yellow and very long, instead of short orange like cast iron. I'll try again later to upload pics. I just want one small four barrel, like a 390 Holley or an old WCFB Carter or Four Jet Rochester. Something about 400 cfm with vacuum operated secondaries.

Image
Image
Image




I've worked with the Wrought Cast Carters before, both Double (WCD) and Four Barrel (WCFB)
Mainly GM crap like Buick 8's and 62 Vettes. Before those in 2011, I was probably influenced by the GM in line Pommy sixes, and the whole thing was the simplicty for setting up multiple carbs from the indermediate shaft on the firewall. Falcons have that same key idea...simplicty!

The WCD I like more because the parts situation is easier, and again, I like the easy GM linkages, and the single Twin H Hudson Hornet air cleaners that come with them.

Image

No one knows about the WCD's, there size, and ease of tune.

People think they are YF's

Image

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Image

Image

Image

Image


The old Nash/ AMC based 195.6 and 232's had them in 1-5/16 and 1-7/16" throttle versions, and old carb dating back to the 40's, but so darned good.

No-one did CFM readings, but from my sluth work, the earlier 1-5/16 ones, about 227 cfm at 1.5" Hg, the later, about 273 cfm at 1.5"Hg.

Two up, 454 to 545 cfm on an I6 at 1.5" Hg, rated as a 4bbl.


Image
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If you use the Rat Roster Cross Ram Smoky Yunick style plate on a 6 cylinder,

I started in 2011, but got busy earning a living

Image

My bacground was twin carb CrossRam and Twin throttle body Crossfire Chevy intake manifolds, so when I found the old AMC/ Nash six cylinder stuff, it was a slam dunk to do it on a Ford log head six.

Image

You can mount two of them, and get WCFB results with cheaper parts and belive me, no one understands or wants WCD's, but boy howdy are they cheap and easy to tune.

You can have blue printed Edelbrock jets, and just grab early YS/YF's metering rods. As I said, they look just like Carter YFs, but a couple of Buick 8 725s Cater WCD's can be found for little money on ebay, and the leather 5/8" cup x 2.325 overall length accelerator pump for Carter carburetors is still around from Mikes carbs. http://www.carburetor-parts.com/WCD_c_113.html


I like E85, but it forms algee, and if its put into an uncleaned Zinc Oxide carb which has ever had TEL fuel in it, then it needs to be cleaned, and given a fuel conditioner.

TK 7 is great, but subject to a lawsuit relating to some shady dealings emanating from the business owner. TheTK 7 additive for gasoline isn't in question.

These days, Lucas 10013 Fuel Treatment fuel is a good option. 10020 if relly bad. Anything that kills algee will stop the precipitation eating the Zinc Oxide or other material the earlier carb bodies are made from.

Modern gasoline and oxygenated blends are designed to fix a fuel supply and emissions problems by using the results of cropping, and its a win win situation, but has the issues of what happens with long term stale fuel. TEL was the only real solution, but we have moved on.

Image

Video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTaT0O8sUD0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tVrUC0NKcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QlxU0eAbRQ
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #84 by 161henry » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:32 pm

drag-200stang wrote:This may or not help you but my tri power tuning issues went away when I screwed filters directly in the carbs and then drove it some...Then tore down each carb all the way, not disturbing the filter, defuzzed the gaskets, cleaned out all passages...After that no more issues.. Some times it took a couple of tear downs to get what was missed the first time.


Ok I’ll give it a look. I did wonder if the factory filter would make a difference
Thanks

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #85 by 161henry » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:54 pm

I did some work on the rat today. I put a T on the manifold pcv so I can get away from port vacuum to the distributor. I set the carbs with a vacuum gauge then the timing. Most of my midrange issues are gone now. I think I need the mechanical advance to come on sooner there’s none until 1200 rpm. I ordered a wideband today. The time spent with a vacuum gauge on the carbs and fine tuning the linkage really paid off. It idles smooth now. I found that even though the 2 outside carbs throttle plates are closed I needed to open the idle screw. all 3 screws are out about 1/2 a turn

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #86 by 161henry » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:44 pm

I just came home from a drive with my AEM air fuel ratio gauge installed. The sensor is in the front manifold. Idle is about 11 cruise is way to lean, 17.5. WOT is 14-15. This is with the .095 jets. I’m going to put the .101 jets back in for now and see what afr readings are. I’m running 91 octane gas no alcohol.

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #87 by 161henry » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:03 am

Took another drive. With the 2280 metering rods and the .101 jets it’s a little rich 12-13.5 at 60 mph. Leans up to 13.5-14 around 70mph. At WOT, when you get on it the afr goes off the gauge over 18 then as rpm increases afr goes down. It hits 12.5 just before time to shift, 4500 rpm. What do you folks think I should do now? Metering rods with a smaller tip and larger mid range?

Thanks

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #88 by 161henry » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:32 am

What do you think I have a video with the tach, afr and a vacuum gauge. 91 octane gas, 12 degrees static timing. Vacuum advance hooked to manifold. 2280 rods and .101 jets. If I stab the throttle at low rpm it goes lean and starts missing. The first minute or two I’m getting out of the alley it’s not real steady but I think you should get a good idea how it’s running. I would have let it pull up to 4000 in third but the wife was not impressed. It’s a big jump from 2nd to 3rd. Let me know what I need to do next.

https://youtu.be/bVCxf_axc5E

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #89 by xctasy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:01 am

I'd leave it as it is, and just focus on getting more good surveys. If you only wanna focus on jetting to suit the combo, then your gonna have to look at three reprofiled metering rods. Air cleaners can drop peak cfm, so you starve of air fuel ratio because of a lack of air cleaner flow.


Step wise, I'd think on things you can do that are related to what you can do without spending money, but if its time, then look at a big US mail letter box cover, and see if air fuel rops off. There is a safety and health issue with covering a pbumnch of carbs, and its in opposition with traditional Rat Rod and Custom Rodder carb air cleaners. You ned to confirm if its air flow into the carb horns at 70 to 85 mph, or if its the upper intake manifolds bends. You don't have to do anything, but check the upper air flow into the cars by covering it with some ratcheted and well hooked down cover.



:hmmm: If its lean at over 70 mph, then it could do with a thinner tip at the postions of the metering rod at that vaccum. Target Lamda sensor would be 12:1 at that , not 18:1. So it clearly needs a richer tip for sure with your current intake. But I think its an air flow issue that can be best addressed with a little work shoving a spacer in the nice intake upper tube to take out some volume. If its flowing nice, it should improve the open throttle air fuel ratio.



I think its leaning off due to the intake volume, which might need to be reduced by feeding some kind of spacer inside it to bring the upper intake volume down to less than 1 liter or 61 cubic inches.


The accelerator pump shot is designed for a 1 bbl engined feeding 27 inches from Cylinder 1 to Cylinder 6. So its got about 20 cc's of fuel drop per stroke.


The spring on the pump is soft to allow it to overfeed the 27 inches of something like, I don't know, maybee 2 liters or 121 cubic inches of wetted perimeter before the six cylinders even get a drink.



You can stiffen up the spring by fitting a brass inset that preloads the accelerator pump shaft spring.


Then you can experiemnt with the main jets to adjust air fuel ratio.


This is a stamndard triple SU carb or Zenith Stromberg CDS 150/175 trick. When they double or tripple up on carbs, they stiffen the spring to ensure there isn't too much accelerator pump enrichment. Then the metering rod gets reprofiled to suit.

On your YFA, you can just change mani jets like you have.


Spring rate is like a cars coil springs. The total amount of active coils in a carter accelerator pump is designed for 1 carb installs harkening back to the Jeep 134 Hurrican engine in 1946.

If you chop off coils, it getts stiffer, but the free height drops and your car or carb accelerator pump shaft runs too low. On the acclerator pump spring, the Carter spring length is fixed, so you cannot cut coils. You can add a brass spacer, and preload the spring, and the idea is to stiffen it to stop it giving so much fuel under the acclerator. Any time you multiple carb, the acclerator pump needs to direct a little less fuel.

As long as the basic static set up is right, you'll be able to dial in fuel or take fuel out by the metering rod profile.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #90 by 161henry » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:42 am

Tell me if my thinking here is correct. The afr was too rich at idle and cruise. Then I realized with 3 carbs at 60 mph I don’t think I’m out of the idle circuit yet. I adjusted the idle screws and can now cruise at 12.5 and 14 afr.

Also I can recurve the DS2 myself but I’m wanting to clean up the fire wall a bit. Would I gain from a DUI distributor that they curve for me before they send it out

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #91 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:32 pm

xctasy wrote:.. So its got about 20 cc's of fuel drop per stroke.

If its rated like Holley and Ford rate their accelerator pumps that would be 20 cc per ten strokes.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #92 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:35 pm

161henry wrote:Tell me if my thinking here is correct. The afr was too rich at idle and cruise. Then I realized with 3 carbs at 60 mph I don’t think I’m out of the idle circuit yet. I adjusted the idle screws and can now cruise at 12.5 and 14 afr.



That is a quite common occurrence on small engines with tri-power. On my race motors with three big Holley 2Vs I've had to add additional idle bleeds downstream of the throttle plates to bring it in closer to ideal, in addition to other idle circuit mods..
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #93 by xctasy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:15 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
xctasy wrote:.. So its got about 20 cc's of fuel drop per stroke.

If its rated like Holley and Ford rate their accelerator pumps that would be 20 cc per ten strokes.



Amen. Thats it!

Generally, most guys avoid the trip power simultanoues three carb set up. Not because they can't make it work, but because in the past, you had to have a chassis dyno and an SAE membership and an Engineers Degree to work it all out.

I'm pretty sure your on the way to expriementing. It's the most fun, and the science is about figuring out...what is the problem. Is it metering rod, air cleaners, or intake manifold.


I'd say air cleaners, and look at taking them off the next run, and pray that no flies get sucked in during the Experiement. Leave the US Post amil box alone, it was wrong of me to even suggest it....

Its not a hold up.....Its a Science Experiment!


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Science

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Science has failed the Mudda Eaaarrrrth!!!!


We have gathered so much knowledge, but how good is it if it doesn't help our Ford Six survive?


Your our only Hope , 161henry and TFTF....don't let me down!
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FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #94 by xctasy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:29 am

Check the peak fuel delivery of the fuel pump. If its leaning out, it'll either be the air cleaners from wind buffet, or an iniablity to deliver fuel at higher horsepower. Free Flow Rate should exceed the equivalant of 29 us gals ph/109 liters ph and Maximum Pressure (psi) should exceed 7 psi at that delivery rate. They leak into the sump when the seals break, so check it first.


Pump stroke through poor pump placement on the gasket causes a potential delvery issue. Fords I6 era pumps had Eccentric total lift of 0.290-0.310 inches, Stroke off the cam should be that much. The same kind of pump on a Chevy or AMC recieves a 0.337 " stroke from the pushrod.


A magnetic dial gauge will get you in ball park, then a quick discahge into a Thinners tin over time ( one minute at revs under load) will tell you the disharge rate. Fuel pressure gauge will give you the pressure. If you can safely meaure the under load fuel pressue and delivery with an exhilary fuel suply without death of yourself or another rat...safety first!
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #95 by 161henry » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:29 pm

Over the last 8 days I’ve driven to Huntington Indiana back to Iowa. Then to Phoenix and back to I’ve been out of the shop. If I were to buy an electric fuel pump would a $30 parts store 30 gph 3-7 lbs pump do the trick or no I need an $80 Carter 100 gph 14 lbs pump with a pressure regulator?

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #96 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:50 pm

30 gph = 6.1 lb/gal x 30 = 183 lb/hr

At .500 lb/hp hr
183/ .500 = 366 HP

If you are making 366 hp or less that pump is fine.

I use a similar cheap pump on my '30 Ford tub w/ a 5.0L Mustang GT engine - no problems.
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #97 by 161henry » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:00 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:30 gph = 6.1 lb/gal x 30 = 183 lb/hr

At .500 lb/hp hr
183/ .500 = 366 HP

If you are making 366 hp or less that pump is fine.

I use a similar cheap pump on my '30 Ford tub w/ a 5.0L Mustang GT engine - no problems.


Ok I’ll get one on there hopefully this weekend. Actually I think the ones Farm and Fleet sell are 40 gph. Thanks for the help

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #98 by 161henry » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:03 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:30 gph = 6.1 lb/gal x 30 = 183 lb/hr

At .500 lb/hp hr
183/ .500 = 366 HP

If you are making 366 hp or less that pump is fine.

I use a similar cheap pump on my '30 Ford tub w/ a 5.0L Mustang GT engine - no problems.


I’m assuming I delete the mechanical pump?

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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #99 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:28 pm

Yes you can.
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Re: Tri Power Again

Post #100 by 161henry » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:16 pm

Well sometimes it’s the simple things. Keep in mind I realize I need to recurve the DS2. And I have some metering rod work to do. But, I have the manual ford fuel pump with the fuel filter on it. I also installed an inline filter because the tank I used had sat a long time. I cleaned it the best I could. I noticed a leak at the inline filter so I popped it out and it was full of rusty red stuff. I replaced it and the AFR looks a lot better. I’ll look into the filter on the pump next. I ordered a fuel pressure gauge yesterday and I have a 35 gph pump in the garage if I need it. I’m guessing part of the reason I’m going lean at first is because my homemade intake has to much volume? And it takes a bit to get enough air pulling through the cards to draw fuel?? If I would have taken a stock intake and welded two pipes and flanges on it that would have been better for low end torque? Let me know if my thinking is sound or not.
Thanks
Warren

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