200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

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FletcherSyntax
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200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #1 by FletcherSyntax » Sun May 13, 2018 2:23 pm

Trying to get to the bottom of which engine I have in my 1970 E100 Van.

What I know:
The head is marked as a 69 Falcon
The intake and head are integrated (one piece)
It has 5 freeze plugs

Is this a 240? Did Econoline's come with 240's? Did they make a SB 250?

Thanks everyone!

*I mistakenly posted this in the bigger block forum cause I didn't know this was a small block.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Sun May 13, 2018 3:27 pm

FletcherSyntax wrote:Trying to get to the bottom of which engine I have in my 1970 E100 Van.

What I know:
The head is marked as a 69 Falcon
The intake and head are integrated (one piece)
It has 5 freeze plugs

Is this a 240? Did Econoline's come with 240's? Did they make a SB 250?

Thanks everyone!

*I mistakenly posted this in the bigger block forum cause I didn't know this was a small block.


If it has an integral head and intake it's not a 240! It's likely a small Ford Six and probably is a 200 cu. in.

Now To tell if it's a 200 or a 250. They both will have 5 freeze plugs though the 250 block is a little taller. A 200 has 3 bolts holding its water pump on the block while 250 has 4 bolts holding the water pump to the block. I don't remember that the 250 was ever a factory option for the Econlines, but yes the 240 big block six was offered in the Heavy Duty Econolines in 1965 up. A 240 looks totally different from the small Ford Six'es and has a bolt on removeable intake manifold. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #3 by FletcherSyntax » Sun May 13, 2018 4:06 pm

Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know. I'll check tomorrow and finally be able to order the clutch for this thing.

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Re: ? 170ci / 2.8L - which engine this is?

Post #4 by chad » Sun May 13, 2018 4:11 pm

or a 170, so many of them, no?
"The head is marked as..."
U mean the castings begin "C9xxx"?
or is that the "junk yrd's" paint pen ID"?

Get "the Handbook" (frm member Matt at vintageinlines dot com) & while waitin for delivery C
the big blue box above (crossed screwdriver'n wrench) for more on these neat motors...ID which is which,
hop up, and much much more!

Seth is one of our members here w/this vehicle goes by "Econoline'.
(just 4 fun - have U been 2 'vantage' the big 3 van's on-line presence?)
He just put ina 250. Besta my knowledge they never came in the van.
144 & 170, may B 200, not sure...

make sure on bell/motor so as 2 get right clutch!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Sun May 13, 2018 4:19 pm

:nono: Well no sorry :shock: a 170 isn't likely to be in a 1970 (Second Generation) Econoline at least not from the factory! Also remember that :idea: the 144's & 170's engine blocks will only have 3 freeze plugs too, not the 5 that the OP stated in his above post. You can check that info out in the above Tech section :wink: . :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #6 by bubba22349 » Sun May 13, 2018 6:05 pm

:D on second thought if it's a Second Generation Econoline (the 1968 to 1974) then it really shouldn't have any of the small Ford Six engines :bang:! If your sure by the Vin Tag info that it's a 1970 E100 then only engines they orginally came with were the big six'es 240 and 300's plus the 302 V8's. So you might have somebody's Hi-Bred swap to a small six. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #7 by FletcherSyntax » Sun May 13, 2018 6:48 pm

So this conversation is exactly why I came here. Just to be clear, I've done a ton of research before I asked you guys and everything you just wrote about is why I made the OP. Most of the second Gen Econoline's definitely had Big Block. The Vin tag definitely states its a 1970, also, the obvious body style makes it the Gen 2.

The casting on the head reads its from a 69 Falcon and it definitely does have 5 freeze plugs. Part of me is glad you guys are confused as well. I feel less stupid now.

The motor mounts look stock to me. If they were re-done, it was an excellent cover up job.

It really does seem like someone dropped an older falcon engine in this van but I find that very hard to believe.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #8 by rocklord » Sun May 13, 2018 7:36 pm

Another way to distinguish a 200 from a 250 is the starter location.
A 200 has the starter above the oil pan flange.
A 250 has the starter below the oil pan flange.

The 250 also used the same bellhousing as the 302, and the same size flywheel/clutch
although the flywheel is neutral (zero) balanced.

Hope this helps.
Dan

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ID motor in '70 conobox

Post #9 by chad » Sun May 13, 2018 9:40 pm

no confusion here but ur vehicle might B
:twisted:
ID by castings (no thing else such as vin, other id tag/stamping).
U seem 2 know where the head's is, just incase - the blocks is
further down on pass side near dwn tube frm exhaust.

"Get "the Handbook" (frm member Matt at vintageinlines dot com) & while waitin for delivery C
the big blue box above (crossed screwdriver'n wrench) for more on these neat motors."

"...dropped an older falcon engine in this van ..."
I got 2 dipsticks in my bronk, 1 each side, same reason. Pre '83 when I aquired,
same swap in but the bronk oil pan (rear sump) wuz placed on so as to have 2nd stick...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #10 by rbohm » Sun May 13, 2018 10:47 pm

the base engine in the 68-74 econolines was the 240, with the 300 and the 302 being the optional engines.

the 240 was available in first gen econolines starting in 1966 i believe as an optional engine. those econolines were also called falcon vans.
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #11 by frozenrabbit » Sun May 13, 2018 10:51 pm

a picture is worth 10,000 guesses.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Sun May 13, 2018 11:22 pm

rocklord wrote:Another way to distinguish a 200 from a 250 is the starter location.
A 200 has the starter above the oil pan flange.
A 250 has the starter below the oil pan flange.

The 250 also used the same bellhousing as the 302, and the same size flywheel/clutch
although the flywheel is neutral (zero) balanced.

Hope this helps.

Dan, you are forgetting about the 200 big bell...Looks like a 250 302 just the 2 top bolt holes are about 1'' lower, it comes factory with a 11'' style 164 flex plate so it must be big.
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #13 by FletcherSyntax » Mon May 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Here is a photo, this should make this a lot easier.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/IoSx6jvVa3R3MKku2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ul1k2WklQNvRcluF2

I took a few other shots so let me know if this isn't enough. I can totally get pictures of the castings but I've heard the block casting numbers are pretty vague.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #14 by John Ha » Mon May 14, 2018 5:40 pm

Based on the location of the starter, the alternator mount, the photo of the bellhousing and the locations of the oil and temp sensors, fuel pump and distributor, I'm going to say this is a 250.
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Mon May 14, 2018 6:37 pm

X2 Yes it looks like some body swaped in a 250 engine in place of the factory engine! The Vin Code numbers would tell you what engine your Econoline originally had before. Good luck :thumbup: :nod
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #16 by bmbm40 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:13 pm

The block casting codes can tell what year block you have and the head casting numbers also. You may want to pick up a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook to look up the codes and get valuable information on maintenance, tune up and performance mods for the 170/200/250 sixes.
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New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #17 by Econoline » Mon May 14, 2018 10:15 pm

If it hasn't been replaced it's a 170, solid cam. For whatever reason, they didn't really put 200's into E-100's. Supposedly there were a small number of them installed in the '65 model year only. It was a factory option. With 5 freeze plugs it's most likely the 170 was replaced with a mustang 6 at some point which is most often the case when an engine get's swapped. Why not go to a 200 and so on. Honestly, if the motor is shot, you're best bet is to cannibalize a 240 van and put a 300 in there with whatever transmission you want. Those 2nd gen vans are alot heavier than the early ones. You could get a 250 in there to w/ what you've already got. It'd take a little work on the motor mounts and you'd need a different transmission. Or a 240 e-100 transmission if you wanted a bolt in.

Does the van have a 9" rear end?
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #18 by FletcherSyntax » Mon May 14, 2018 11:09 pm

So the general consensus is that is a 250 and not the original engine, which makes a ton of sense.

Now I have to make a tough decision cause I got a 302 V8 out of a 72 Econoline that I think is in decent shape.

I kind of like the gas milage on that 250 though.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Mon May 14, 2018 11:33 pm

FletcherSyntax wrote:Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know. I'll check tomorrow and finally be able to order the clutch for this thing.


Is a clutch all you need to get it back on the road? If so just get a clutch for a 1970 Econoline with a 240 engine and you will be good to go. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #20 by John Ha » Tue May 15, 2018 7:56 am

bmbm40 wrote:The block casting codes can tell what year block you have and the head casting numbers also. You may want to pick up a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook to look up the codes and get valuable information on maintenance, tune up and performance mods for the 170/200/250 sixes.


http://www.mustangtek.com/index.html is a good place to look up casting numbers for Ford stuff
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #21 by FletcherSyntax » Tue May 15, 2018 11:07 am

bubba22349 wrote:
FletcherSyntax wrote:Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know. I'll check tomorrow and finally be able to order the clutch for this thing.


Is a clutch all you need to get it back on the road? If so just get a clutch for a 1970 Econoline with a 240 engine and you will be good to go. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Yup, just a clutch for now. The engine runs like doggie doo but I think it's a carb issue. When I step on the gas it bogs, or stalls completely. I've been working on that problem for what feels like ages now.

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I can't figure out which xxx this is.

Post #22 by chad » Tue May 15, 2018 11:52 am

"...feels like ages now."
make sure the carb/dizzy feedback system is a match. Many do not have the carb/SCV and dizzy/LOM but have one frm post '68 matched up w/1 frm pre '68. (the 250 did come out 1st in '69 after all). More reason to ID things (block #s, carb, rear gear, dizzy, transmish). To me - this is the first step when acquiring an older vehicle - "What do I have here?". U sound like ur on ur way in doing that.

Again, getting "the Handbook" frm Matt at vintage inlines dot com & while waiting 4 delivery a look at the above big blue box w/crossed screw driver/wrench can B a big help not only in IDing but: hop up, specs, swap-ins, money saving tips, etc. In many cases those 2 and this site can B all a fella needs...
8^0
8)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #23 by bubba22349 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:27 pm

FletcherSyntax wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:
FletcherSyntax wrote:Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know. I'll check tomorrow and finally be able to order the clutch for this thing.


Is a clutch all you need to get it back on the road? If so just get a clutch for a 1970 Econoline with a 240 engine and you will be good to go. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Yup, just a clutch for now. The engine runs like doggie doo but I think it's a carb issue. When I step on the gas it bogs, or stalls completely. I've been working on that problem for what feels like ages now.


With a bogging and stalling situation it could be that accerator pump timing adjustments maybe needed, with the AC removed and choke open do you get a good accelerator pump shot when you open the throttle lever? If not get a new accelerator pump to install in your carb this will probably fix that, any of the better auto parts stores should have them seperate from a carb kit like NAPA ect. Better still you might try a giving the carb a good cleaning inside with some Barrymens carb cleaner and install a fresh carb rebuild kit to get it running as it should. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #24 by Econoline » Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm

Wait, how are you determining it is a 250 and not a 200? It's more likely that it would be a 200, so the old trans could be used when they did the swap. Did I miss something, does the water pump have 4 bolts?

Bubba, they actually did install 170's in 2nd Gen Econolines. 1970 was the last year it was done.
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #25 by rbohm » Tue May 15, 2018 5:00 pm

Econoline wrote:Wait, how are you determining it is a 250 and not a 200? It's more likely that it would be a 200, so the old trans could be used when they did the swap. Did I miss something, does the water pump have 4 bolts?

Bubba, they actually did install 170's in 2nd Gen Econolines. 1970 was the last year it was done.


it has the small block ford bell housing.
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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #26 by bubba22349 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:43 pm

Hi Econoline, yes X2 by the posters above pictures (in post #13) looking at the rear of the engine block it has the full SBF V8 bell housing patteren and also a low mount starter. The only Ford six'es that were built like this are the 250 six and both the 240 / 300 big block six'es, plus the quite rare 80's 200's with its parcel 2/3 SBF patteren, in this case don't see those mods being made to adapt it to the SBF V8 patteren. Also looking at that bell housing and the 3.03 behind it, my best guess without seeing the Vin code numbers of his E100's the original engine might of been a 240 Big Six. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #27 by FletcherSyntax » Tue May 15, 2018 6:16 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
FletcherSyntax wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:
Is a clutch all you need to get it back on the road? If so just get a clutch for a 1970 Econoline with a 240 engine and you will be good to go. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Yup, just a clutch for now. The engine runs like doggie doo but I think it's a carb issue. When I step on the gas it bogs, or stalls completely. I've been working on that problem for what feels like ages now.


With a bogging and stalling situation it could be that accerator pump timing adjustments maybe needed, with the AC removed and choke open do you get a good accelerator pump shot when you open the throttle lever? If not get a new accelerator pump to install in your carb this will probably fix that, any of the better auto parts stores should have them seperate from a carb kit like NAPA ect. Better still you might try a giving the carb a good cleaning inside with some Barrymens carb cleaner and install a fresh carb rebuild kit to get it running as it should. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


I do get a decent shot of fuel when I hit the gas but I'm more of a motorcycle mechanic so I'm not certain what it's supposed to look like. It's probably not enough though, now that I think about it, cause if I set the choke about half way closed the problem goes away.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #28 by bubba22349 » Tue May 15, 2018 11:54 pm

Well having good shot is only half of it so you may be right that it's ok. Timing of the shot is the other half without seeing it or which carb you have can't give you much more info. One other thing that can cause stumbling is a bad Distribitor vaccum advance can, so test yours out to see if it holds a vaccum or not. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200, 240 or 250? I can't figure out which engine this is.

Post #29 by Econoline » Wed May 16, 2018 1:19 am

OK yeah it's a 250. I missed the photo links.
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