New Carb and Ready for Tune

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MustangDadDrake
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New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #1 by MustangDadDrake » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:49 am

Hi All,

With the help of this forum and the tech pages I was able to diagnose some issues with my 68 Mustang. This weekend I swaped out the SCV carb for a non-SCV carb! I also installed a phelonic spacer as I was running into some vapor lock issues.

When hooking up the choke tube I noticed the old choke tube was broken off in the exhaust manifold. I removed the exhaust manifold and drilled out the old choke tube.

I plan to tune it with a vacuum gauge now that I have the right parts on the car and I have read through the forums but would like to confirm I am going about this the right way.

>>>>Warm up the car until the choke is fully open. Then tune with vacuum guage following the steps here.

If you guys see anything odd or have some suggestions for me, please let me know. I also, want to thank you all for your help, this forum is a great resource. :thumbup:

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #2 by CZLN6 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:22 am

Howdy DadDrake:

What distributor are you using? What is the new carb from/designed for? It sure looks good. It sure looks good. Good job on the spacer.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #3 by MustangDadDrake » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:43 am

I am using the mechanical distributor, not the load o matic. It is just an Autolite 1100 non-scv, I was running the SCV version of the autolite 1100, from summit racing, previously.

Thank you!!! :beer:

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #4 by B RON CO » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:33 pm

Hi, the bracket on the side of the choke is there to hold the heater hose. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #5 by MustangDadDrake » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:31 pm

Awesome! Thank you for pointing that out!

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #6 by wsa111 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:51 pm

Who rebuilt the carb? Looks very nice.
Get rid of the points. Pertronix 1 is one step up. You will need a full 12V to the distributor & get a better coil, MSD or Pertronix.
Getting the distributor recurved would help performance greatly.
The next upgrade if you don't care about looking stock is a DS11 with a MSD-6al.
If you have manual steering a HEI is a one wire hookup. Bill
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #7 by MustangDadDrake » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:37 pm

I purchased the carb on eBay, vapex is the rebuilder I believe.

Thanks for the pointers I’m just trying to get her to run well with what she has for the time being but I’ll know what to research next! Thanks

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #8 by CZLN6 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:01 am

Howdy Back Dad Drake:

Your distributor appears to be a stock '69 distributor with both vacuum and centrifugal advance. If you were running an Autolite 1100 with a SCV, it would not work well with that distributor. A SCV 1100 is designed to run with a Load-O-Matic distributor. However, those 1100 on a 200 engine were rated at 185 cfm. The 1100s used on '68 & '69 200s were downsized to 150 cfm but lost the SCV and added a ported vacuum source for the distributor advance. That is why I asked what the new carb was designed for. FYI- If it was a '68 replacement you may be down on power, going from 185 to 150 cfm. The difference is in the inner diameter of the Venturi. Check it out. The vacuum tune up you are using will be the same on either carb.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #9 by MustangDadDrake » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:17 pm

I am glad I got the right pair after driving with the wrong carburetor this whole time. How can you tell it is a '69 distributor, like what do you look for?

This is really good info thank you, most people that even know cars don't know this stuff!

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #10 by CZLN6 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:09 am

Howdy Back:

This distributor is identifiable by the facts that it is a point type with centrifugal and vacuum advance and the large vacuum canister on the side of the distributor with both advance and retard functions. it was used from somewhere in 1968 until the introduction of the small cap DuraSpark distributors in the 1973 production year. It has a different appearance of the point plate of the earlier Load-O-Matic distributor and the pointless, '73 and later Dura Spark distributors.

Adios, David
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http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #11 by chad » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:27 am

When did the DSI change to DSII ('77?).
Thnx~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #12 by CZLN6 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:21 pm

Howdy:

Chad- The DS II became standard on all 200 sixes beginning in the 1975 Production year. Some appeared in the '74 model year due to FOMOCo's empty bin policy. The big difference between Dura-Spark and Dura-Spark II is the size of the distributor cap. The bigger cap on DS II was to reduce arcing due to the higher energy.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #13 by wsa111 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:38 pm

If you have a good SCV carb, it can be converted to ported vacuum.
As CZLN6 stated + 35 CFM is the flow on the SCV carb over the non SCV carb. Thats at least 5HP.
Here is a link on how to do the conversion.
viewtopic.php?f=99&t=76821
I can do this for you for $50.00 plus parts + shipping. Bill
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #14 by MustangDadDrake » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:10 pm

Already got the right carb no need for the conversion but thank you. I do have an SVC carb that I no longer need.

Since it’s a 69 distributor I think I know why I am having trouble moving it to set the timing, It’s hitting the engine when I try to turn it.

Anyone experience this before how can I move the distributor to set the timing if it’s conflicting with the engine?

Thanks! Drake

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:42 pm

The Distribitor will need to be pulled and reinstalled in the correct orientation, looks to be one or two teeth off. To do this you will need to first get the engine set so it is on TDC (Top Dead Center) on the #1 cylinder (check the Timing Mark on the Crankshaft Dampner) on the compression stroke. Next check where the Distribitor rotor is pointing, it'll needs to be pointing to the # 1 tower of the Distribitor cap after the Distribitor body is in the correct location (see below post on Distribitor orientation). Ie the vacuum advance canister is closer to parael to the side of the engine block. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #16 by CZLN6 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:32 pm

Howdy Back Drake:

YOu may have the correct carb for the '69 distributor, BUT! The '68 and '69 Non SCV Autolite 1100s are rated at 150 cfm. The earlier 1100s for LoM distributor were rated at 185 cfm. Doing the modication that Bill suggests is a significant increase in performance. That's is something to consider. Just a thought.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #17 by MustangDadDrake » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:07 am

Did not realize that about the performance boost with Bill's modification. I already have enough $$$ in carburetors for now but something to consider in the future.

A little needy this Monday morning...as for the distributor, what do you mean by 1 to 2 teeth off? Does anyone have a photo of a distributor in the right place so I can compare? I haven't searched for install a distributor yet but does anyone know where I can find a good tutorial?

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Besides the distributor, the carburetor tune went really well. She is steady at 18" on the vacuum gauge. Which is at the lower end of the normal range but I hope to adjust it when I get the distributor on right.

Thanks again for all your help!!!

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #18 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:08 am

The body of the Distribitor should be installed so that vacuum advance canister is pointing towards the fuel pump, you can see a good picture of this orientation in Xtancy's post # 5 in the below link. The rest of the info on installing a Distribitor is in my above post. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

Ford Six Engine Colors
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77044&p=592955&hilit=Engine+colors#p592955
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #19 by MustangDadDrake » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:59 pm

Thanks Bubba!
After doing some more research I want to make sure I have this right in my mind before I do it this weekend.

1.Set Engine to TDC on Compression Stroke by using 1/2 wrench on the crankshaft pulley. Question: do I need to remove the fan and/or radiator in order to do this? Also, how can I tell it is the compression stroke?
2. Remove cap, leaving spark plug wires attached.
3. Mark position of rotor.
4. Remove distributor completely.
5. Reinstall distributor in the correct orientation. Question: I feel like I am missing something here. Are you able to clarify a little bit more. I have been using this generic DIY for most of my information WikiHow. I feel like this step is critical and would feel comfortable with some more clarity.

Thanks again!!

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #20 by chad » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:34 pm

"...this generic DIY for most of my information WikiHow....'
Way too general.
A Haynes or Chiltons (@ big box auto prts store) R manuals 4 ur specific vehicle (Year/Make/Model). Nicer is an official ford shop manual (for later, more expensive).
Great is 'the Handbook' many of us use here to wrk on our i6 (a member here wrote it w/his brother). It includes a staged process for 'advancing' the 'stang while drivin it - almost no down time, & ability to save $ 4 jobs (inc motor changes'n other stuff).
Lastly some good reading for understanding this specific motor ('Thriftpower' or 'Falcon' motors) is the above "tech archive' at the crossed screwdriver'n wrench. Tools'n space might B 1st (after a car, of course), 2nd is the Handbook, tech archive'n a shop manual. Knowledgable folk in the neighborhood or here on line can complete ur team. Determination, patience, willingness to go slo & learn can help but we see folks here w/o those attributes who do OK.
Keep in touch!
:thumbup:
Last edited by chad on Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #21 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:48 pm

MustangDadDrake wrote:Thanks Bubba!
After doing some more research I want to make sure I have this right in my mind before I do it this weekend.

1.Set Engine to TDC on Compression Stroke by using 1/2 wrench on the crankshaft pulley. Question: do I need to remove the fan and/or radiator in order to do this.

1.A. No You shouldn't need to remove the fan or radiator. If you remove all the spark plugs you can probably turn the engine using the fan itself.


Also, how can I tell it is the compression stroke?

"1.B. Since the engine is running now with the Distribitors slightly off normal stock position, when the engine is set correctly on the TDC mark of the crankshafts Dampener when it's on the compression stroke the Distribitors rotor will be pointing to the number one spark plug wires tower of the Distribitor cap. Use a piece of chock and mark the distribitor body were the the number one spark plug wire is located. If the Distribitor rotor isn't pointing close to the number one spark plug wire then it will be 180 degrees off and its not going to be on the compression stroke. Take a picture of it and post here."


2. Remove cap, leaving spark plug wires attached.
3. Mark position of rotor.
4. Remove distributor.

4. Before removing the Distribitor take a few pictures of its location and post them here.


5. Reinstall distributor in the correct orientation. [color=#FF0000]Question: I feel like I am missing something here. Are you able to clarify a little bit more. I have been using this generic DIY for most of my information WikiHow. I feel like this step is critical and would feel comfortable with some more clarity.


5. The wikihow is ok except in you case the Distribitor wasn't installed quite correctly. IE I believe it's likely 1 or 2 teeth of the Distribitor gear off its ideal position. After documenting this step try moving the Distribitor body by turning it towards the fuel pump. Now take another picture and post here. This will show how far off the rotor is off from the Distribitor caps number one tower. Note that Ford Distribitor caps usally have a number one on the top next to the number one cap tower.
More to follow. Good luck" :nod: :thumbup: Edited

Thanks again!!
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #22 by MustangDadDrake » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:51 am

Wow great info thanks guys!

Chad thanks for the sound advice I actually have the shop manual (I took a picture of it in post #3) but looking through I did not find anything that would make me comfortable about removing and reinstalling the distributor.

You're the man Bubba! I will try to get in there tomorrow for the pictures. Standby for updates!

Thanks again!

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #23 by chad » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:29 pm

MustangDadDrake wrote:...thanks guys!
Chad thanks for the...advice I actually have the shop manual...
Thanks again!

Don't 4get "the Ford..6...Handbook" (may B frm Matt at VI - $20?)
/OR/
the above "tech archive" @ the crossed screwdriver/wrench.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #24 by MustangDadDrake » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:59 pm

OK guys!

With removing all spark plugs it was a breeze to turn the fan by hand and I was able to get the first cylinder to TDC... i think.

The distributor is pointing at the #1 spark plug tower.

I went to adjust the distributor but it would not budge at all. I took the clamp completely off and still nothing, wouldn't budge.

My next step would be to remove the distributor and reinstall in the right orientation. But I do not see what bolts I need to remove to get the distributor loose.

Please let me know if I am on the right track here.

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can't pull distributor but Ready for Tune

Post #25 by chad » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:04 pm

I would rock the motor a lill bit & use penetrating fluid. I think it's stuck by rust (@ base - looks so in pic) & just the oil pump gear/dizzy gear (way lower in engine).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #26 by wsa111 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:00 pm

See if you can move it up as much as you can. Then spray Deep Creep into the gap. Let sit for an hour. See if you can now rotate it. Might take several days to get that sucker out.
Anytime you install a distributor make sure the housing is prepped with lubricant.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #27 by bubba22349 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:59 pm

X2 yes use some spray penetrate at the Distribitors base. You could also use a little bit of pressure too on the Distribitor body by using a pry bar or big screwdriver between the oil filter housing i.e. Looking at you 5 th picture above. Then keep working the Distribitor body back and forth a little togeather with the spray penetrate eventually over time it will loosen up enough to get it to turn and pull out. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #28 by Ragman069 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:07 pm

Just a question about your phenolic carb spacer. Is it store bought or homemade from a cutting board? I need one for my '62 Fairlane with a 170ci and Holley 1909 carb. Also, how thick is it?

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #29 by MustangDadDrake » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:38 am

Hey Guys!

So after Friday I was not able to get back under the hood to do some work, busy with the family. However, I did pick up some of that deep creep and plan to spray some in there and loosen up the distributor today. So sorry for the delay but I will keep you guys updated.

I found a decent youtube video on removing and install the distributor. Once I break this sucker loose, am I to rotate the distributor body to the proper position then reinstalling with the rotor pointed at the same location (TDC at Spark Plug #1)? Is it that simple? :?: :?: :?:

Hey Ragman! I bought the spacer for $20 on ebay. It is 1/4" thick. I thought briefly about making it myself but the material cost plus time didn't make sense to me. Here is the link.

*Edited to add second paragraph

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #30 by MustangDadDrake » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:26 am

UPDATE:

The deep creep worked like a charm and now my distributor moves back and forth.

After checking around and watching youtube videos and reading the tech articles, I do not believe I need to remove the distributor at all. I can properly set the timing with the distributor now that the deep creep has loosened the distributor.

Do you all agree here???

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Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #31 by xctasy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:07 pm

MustangDadDrake wrote:UPDATE:

The deep creep worked like a charm and now my distributor moves back and forth.

After checking around and watching youtube videos and reading the tech articles, I do not believe I need to remove the distributor at all. I can properly set the timing with the distributor now that the deep creep has loosened the distributor.

Do you all agree here???



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sorta tuned up

Post #32 by chad » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:20 pm

"...agree...?"

"fine tuning", finishing up, minor adjustments, "Yes".
"Bright'n Bristol?" "No. Not ship shape'n Bristol fashion."
Again there's a bubba thread that's gunna get U alot closer.
Try the search function...
(Ur kinda starting @ the end steada da frnt).


BTW: BBC round deese pahts stands for Berkshire Brewing Co. & I'd recommend their "Steel Rail" IPA !
(& yes Berkshire county, the Berkshire Mts/Hills & all related is from the Brits: where Windsor castle is).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: sorta tuned up

Post #33 by chad » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:27 pm

tripple
Last edited by chad on Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: sorta tuned up

Post #34 by chad » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:28 pm

double post - gettin my count up anyway I can 8^ )
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Ragman069
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Posts: 15
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: New Carb and Ready for Tune

Post #35 by Ragman069 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:28 am

Thx for the info. The link led me to one for sale on eBay. The day I searched, I couldn't find any one barrel spacers.

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