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How to inspect lifters?

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moroza
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How to inspect lifters?

Post #1 by moroza » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:13 pm

Found lots of threads about lifters in general, how to replace them, and how to adjust valves, but surprisingly can't find info on how to determine if they're bad or not. The only test procedure I can find is Ford's, which calls for a special tool and special oil. I've got two problems:

1. A lot of valvetrain clatter, plus at least one or two rockers flopping around with a lot more than zero play. Engine runs slightly uneven, in the manner I've previously experienced engines with maladjusted valves.

2. Not all of the rockers, and possibly none of them, are getting oil through the pushrods. PO, a plumber, rigged up a contraption to oil them through the valve cover. It works for all cylinders except No.6, but is clearly an elaborate bandaid and does nothing for the clatter.

Just now, I removed rockers, pushrods, and lifters for No.6 exhaust (because it had previously run bone-dry) and No.1 intake (because it's farthest from the oilpump). I removed the dizzy and turned the oilpump by hand with a wrench back-n-forth, after about a minute observing a healthy ooze of oil at both lifter holes with no more than 15psi on the gauge, and probably more like 5. I just partially disassembled one of the lifters and observed that the plunger was a bit sticky, not seized, and that pressing down fairly hard by hand (~50lb force?) I could get oil to ooze out of the hole in the body.

Is there a way to test or inspect the lifters? I hear of a check valve but no info on how to tell if it works. If they are bad, should I just give them a good reassembly/cleaning, or replace?

This is a 1973 300.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:50 pm

Cleaning and reassembly might work but are only worth the effort if the lifters are still serviceable. Look at the face of the lifter they are suppose to have a slight crown on them. Use a straight edge across it if you see any light under the straight edge they are then worn (i.e. Concave) and likely they are needing to be replaced. If you do see wear on the lifter face and considering your oiling issues I would guess that the cam is also going to show wear too if it dose then it should also be replaced. You will also likely need to do a compleate cleaning of the engine so that the oil passages are clear and can function after those get fixed your other issues of valve train noise, loose rockers, will take care of themselves as you replace any of the other worn out parts due to the lacking of proper oiling. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

moroza
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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #3 by moroza » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:25 pm

Definitely replacing all the rockers and their fulcrums (fulcra?), as they're all worn at the valve stems and some of the balls are scored.

Possibly replacing some pushrods. Of four pushrods, none are bent or obviously damaged, but one is ~1mm shorter and with a less pointy tip. Is that grounds for replacement? Any reason to replace them all WIIT?

Of two lifters pulled, one was dead flat and the other had a very slight concave indentation. No scoring, faint circular pattern.

I disassembled the one lifter further and figured out what that checkvalve was all about. Disassembled the plunger, and using my lungs, I was able to blow down (relative to how the lifter is mounted) into the plunger, with no airflow until a sudden *pop*. Blowing the other way, I got a tiny bit of blowby. Is any blowby acceptable? Can this checkvalve be disassembled? Or am I putting lipstick on a dead horse and the lifters all need replaced?

Wish I'd taken photos when I had the oilpan down, but here's the best I can do for a shot of the cam lobes. More wear on one side suggests that its taper is intact, and therefore it's ok?

Image

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:43 pm

moroza wrote:Definitely replacing all the rockers and their fulcrums (fulcra?), as they're all worn at the valve stems and some of the balls are scored.

Possibly replacing some pushrods. Of four pushrods, none are bent or obviously damaged, but one is ~1mm shorter and with a less pointy tip. Is that grounds for replacement? Any reason to replace them all WIIT?

"1. If they are all straight that's great
2. Inspect carefully each of the push rods ball end that goes into the rockers socket if this ball has any signs of damage or scoring than replace it or it will just tear up your new rocker arms.
3. They all need to be clean of anything inside that can block the oil flow."

Of two lifters pulled, one was dead flat and the other had a very slight concave indentation. No scoring, faint circular pattern.

I disassembled the one lifter further and figured out what that checkvalve was all about. Disassembled the plunger, and using my lungs, I was able to blow down (relative to how the lifter is mounted) into the plunger, with no airflow until a sudden *pop*. Blowing the other way, I got a tiny bit of blowby. Is any blowby acceptable? Can this checkvalve be disassembled? Or am I putting lipstick on a dead horse and the lifters all need replaced?

"4. Your call on the lifters if they would be good enough to reuse. If the one you disassembled looks clean enough inside put it back togeather. Make sure each lifter goes back into its original bore again."

Wish I'd taken photos when I had the oilpan down, but here's the best I can do for a shot of the cam lobes. More wear on one side suggests that its taper is intact, and therefore it's ok?


Best I can tell without seeing it in person but it doesn't seem to show an excessive amount of wear so probably will be all right.

Have you ever run the engine with the valve cover off and without the previous owners custom oiling rig job? If so did you see any oil coming up through the top of rocker arms? If you did then I would check out further the #6 pair of lifters, push rods, and rockers that you knew weren't oiling right. The flow is like this the lifter bores are drilled to receive oil pressure from cam bearings, lifters have a hole in the side that allows oil into lifter, the check valve inside controls this flow, the top of the lifter has a hole to feed oil to the push Rod, the push Rod feeds the rocker arm hole and this provides oil to the rocker fulcrum and the rockers tip and valve stem. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #5 by Max_Effort » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:40 pm

Lifters are inexpensive... Rock Auto has Engine Tech brand for $1.74 ea, Sealed Power for $3.18 ea.
HT900 is the Sealed Power (Federal-Mogul) part number.

moroza
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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #6 by moroza » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:43 pm

bubba22349 wrote:"4. Your call on the lifters if they would be good enough to reuse.


But I don't have the experience to make that call... Hence this whole thread.

I'm disinclined to blindly replace them because 1. money's tight (I guess not $32 tight), 2. time is tight; I'm being nagged to move this van sooner than new ones would arrive, 3. there seems to be a risk of cam wear or damage with new lifters. Would prefer to overhaul and reuse if I can. Also 4. my curiosity on how to positively test them would be unsatisfied.

Have you ever run the engine with the valve cover off and without the previous owners custom oiling rig job? If so did you see any oil coming up through the top of rocker arms?


If memory serves (I'm 80% sure) I did run the engine that way two years ago and observed no oil at the rockers. More recently (100% sure on this) I spun the oilpump with a drill, and despite 50psi got no oil at any rocker, but the engine wasn't turning over.

If you did then I would check out further the #6 pair of lifters, push rods, and rockers that you knew weren't oiling right. The flow is like this the lifter bores are drilled to receive oil pressure from cam bearings, lifters have a hole in the side that allows oil into lifter, the check valve inside controls this flow, the top of the lifter has a hole to feed oil to the push Rod, the push Rod feeds the rocker arm hole and this provides oil to the rocker fulcrum and the rockers tip and valve stem. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: :


It's the details of this checkvalve that are the last sticking point (no pun intended) in figuring out if they're ok.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:59 pm

moroza wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:"4. Your call on the lifters if they would be good enough to reuse.


But I don't have the experience to make that call... Hence this whole thread.

I'm disinclined to blindly replace them because 1. money's tight (I guess not $32 tight), 2. time is tight; I'm being nagged to move this van sooner than new ones would arrive, 3. there seems to be a risk of cam wear or damage with new lifters. Would prefer to overhaul and reuse if I can. Also 4. my curiosity on how to positively test them would be unsatisfied.

1. Technically if there is any signs of the lifters face being concave during an overhaul or full rebuild would be grounds for replacement of both cam and all lifters.
2. Because of your #1., #2. , #3 & #4., reasons stated above and mainly because of 1. & 2. I just wouldn't worry about it right now. Alter tearing down numerous running engines I have seen serverly worn lifters (concave) that still allowed the engine to run well. The big questions in those cases though is for how much longer?

Have you ever run the engine with the valve cover off and without the previous owners custom oiling rig job? If so did you see any oil coming up through the top of rocker arms?


If memory serves (I'm 80% sure) I did run the engine that way two years ago and observed no oil at the rockers. More recently (100% sure on this) I spun the oilpump with a drill, and despite 50psi got no oil at any rocker, but the engine wasn't turning over.

3. Then ths needs to be traced back to the real problem of the lack of top end oiling.

If you did then I would check out further the #6 pair of lifters, push rods, and rockers that you knew weren't oiling right. The flow is like this the lifter bores are drilled to receive oil pressure from cam bearings, lifters have a hole in the side that allows oil into lifter, the check valve inside controls this flow, the top of the lifter has a hole to feed oil to the push Rod, the push Rod feeds the rocker arm hole and this provides oil to the rocker fulcrum and the rockers tip and valve stem. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: :


It's the details of this checkvalve that are the last sticking point (no pun intended) in figuring out if they're ok.


Okay then to dive a bit deeper into this. Working backwards now If you have varied that each of the push Rods are clean or open ie you can look through it or blow through it. Plus the oil hole in the rocker arms are also open by sticking a wire through it that eliminates everthing down to the lifters as a cause for the lack of oiling on the top end.

The check valve works just like any other check valve or one way valve allowing oil in & holding it, also some oil pressure is allowed to be bled off in order to have a measured amount of oil going up through the push rods and to the rocker arms. So in this case it allows the oil into the lifter to take up the valve train clearance to zero it then stops the oil from coming back out. So if you can compress any of your lifters that haven't been taken apart yet then the check isn't working (this would be a rare occurrence) or the lifter isn't getting the oil pressure supply from its lifter bore. To further test out the lifter you can use a pump type oil can to put oil into the lifter then see if it compresses if check valve is working right it will be difficult to compress again. You could test the lifters bore by spinning the oil pump with one lifter out to see if you have oil delivery, then replace and move to the next one. Hope that helps. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #8 by moroza » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:09 pm

bubba22349 wrote: So if you can compress any of your lifters that haven't been taken apart yet then the check isn't working (this would be a rare occurrence) or the lifter isn't getting the oil pressure supply from its lifter bore. To further test out the lifter you can use a pump type oil can to put oil into the lifter then see if it compresses if check valve is working right it will be difficult to compress again. You could test the lifters bore by spinning the oil pump with one lifter out to see if you have oil delivery, then replace and move to the next one. Hope that helps. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


The one lifter I played with, I applied a good amount of force (50lb?) and did not get it to compress, but oil did slowly ooze out of the hole. So I'd say it was "difficult" to compress, but not impossible.

I recently verified a healthy flow of clean oil *to* all lifters, from 6-intake all the way up to 1-exhaust. Right now I'm banking on the problem being poor flow *through* the lifters. The one I took apart was pretty grimy. I'm about to sit down with the remaining 11 and just take them apart, clean the crud out, and put back together.

If that gets oil to the rockers, fantastic. If not, I'll be buying new lifters and I'm all ears what brands are good and which to avoid.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:32 am

moroza wrote: The one lifter I played with, I applied a good amount of force (50lb?) and did not get it to compress, but oil did slowly ooze out of the hole. So I'd say it was "difficult" to compress, but not impossible.

I recently verified a healthy flow of clean oil *to* all lifters, from 6-intake all the way up to 1-exhaust. Right now I'm banking on the problem being poor flow *through* the lifters. The one I took apart was pretty grimy. I'm about to sit down with the remaining 11 and just take them apart, clean the crud out, and put back together.

If that gets oil to the rockers, fantastic. If not, I'll be buying new lifters and I'm all ears what brands are good and which to avoid.


Ok it sounds like you will have it covered, good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #10 by moroza » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:54 pm

I cleaned up all the lifters and reinstalled. I was able to get oil oozing out of at least some lifter cups just with hand-cranking the oilpump. Reassembled rockers (carefully to zero lash, then one full turn, then jamnut because all but one stud nuts spun freely) and pushrods, ran the engine with valvecover removed. All pushrods spun but four or five slowly. All pushrods clear and measure 10.118" +/- 0.010", except one that had a serious clog and measured 10.079". Only one rocker was getting oil through its pushrod, a gentle ooze. Had to drive it 35 miles and it developed a squeak by the end, so the other 11 lifters didn't fix themselves. My guess is the ultimate culprit is the 4-hole metering disk right below the cup. I've never seen fresh ones for reference, but these had quite a bit of shiny wear.

New rockers and lifters on the way. Might as well do all 12 pushrods, or at least the one. Funds are too tight for a new camshaft, mostly because it's going to likely involve new bearings and more parts.

Opinions on using a jam nut at the rockers instead of the factory friction-nut setup? Seems more reliable and reusable?

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:42 pm

moroza wrote:I cleaned up all the lifters and reinstalled. I was able to get oil oozing out of at least some lifter cups just with hand-cranking the oilpump. Reassembled rockers (carefully to zero lash, then one full turn, then jamnut because all but one stud nuts spun freely) and pushrods, ran the engine with valvecover removed. All pushrods spun but four or five slowly. All pushrods clear and measure 10.118" +/- 0.010", except one that had a serious clog and measured 10.079". Only one rocker was getting oil through its pushrod, a gentle ooze. Had to drive it 35 miles and it developed a squeak by the end, so the other 11 lifters didn't fix themselves. My guess is the ultimate culprit is the 4-hole metering disk right below the cup. I've never seen fresh ones for reference, but these had quite a bit of shiny wear.

New rockers and lifters on the way. Might as well do all 12 pushrods, or at least the one. Funds are too tight for a new camshaft, mostly because it's going to likely involve new bearings and more parts.

Opinions on using a jam nut at the rockers instead of the factory friction-nut setup? Seems more reliable and reusable?


From your description of the condistion of all these parts I am guessing this is a high mileage engine that was poorly cared for during its lifetime. As far as replacing the cam that would probally be a good idea in your case, a cam turns at one haft engine speed so bearings usally don't wear as bad so they don't always need to be replaced. As to any other parts that need to be changed with it your already doing the lifters now only thing else is the timing gear set. Dose your engine have good oil Pressure right now? Are you sure there is adequate oiling in the lifter bores?

If it was me I would just get a new set of the factory style locking nuts but then I often set my valves with the engine warmed up and running. Though If you really like the jamb nut solution there's no reason you shouldn't go for it. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #12 by moroza » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:26 pm

bubba22349 wrote:From your description of the condistion of all these parts I am guessing this is a high mileage engine that was poorly cared for during its lifetime.


No doubt about that.
Dose your engine have good oil Pressure right now? Are you sure there is adequate oiling in the lifter bores?


My eyes show all 12 lifter bores getting oil, and it seems to be a healthy flow but I can't be sure it's enough.

Pressure is 45-50psi cold idle, 10-15 hot idle, 15-25 hot driving around (no tach but guessing 1500-2800rpm). That's with 10W30. Someone on FTE said that was too low and suggested it's the reason for my problem. On one hand, that makes me doubt the wisdom of doing anything to this engine short of a full rebuild. On the other hand, even when pressure is 40+, there's poor flow. Furthermore, I've been reading people's reports of 300 oilpressure and a few cases with even lower numbers don't report valvetrain lube issues.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #13 by bubba22349 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:35 pm

moroza wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:From your description of the condistion of all these parts I am guessing this is a high mileage engine that was poorly cared for during its lifetime.


No doubt about that.
Dose your engine have good oil Pressure right now? Are you sure there is adequate oiling in the lifter bores?


My eyes show all 12 lifter bores getting oil, and it seems to be a healthy flow but I can't be sure it's enough.

Pressure is 45-50psi cold idle, 10-15 hot idle, 15-25 hot driving around (no tach but guessing 1500-2800rpm). That's with 10W30. Someone on FTE said that was too low and suggested it's the reason for my problem. On one hand, that makes me doubt the wisdom of doing anything to this engine short of a full rebuild. On the other hand, even when pressure is 40+, there's poor flow. Furthermore, I've been reading people's reports of 300 oilpressure and a few cases with even lower numbers don't report valvetrain lube issues.


Yeah 45-50 cold is still good and 10-15 hot idle is even decent for a well used engine also 15-25 hot driving though not great is probally safe enough. These engines when new used straight 30 weight oil so for an engine that shows signs of this kind of wear 20-50 would be a better choice and would raise the oil pressure a bit more. Still the fact that you are only getting oil to one rocker is a big problem. No engine could run for very long like that and we now know that's why the pervious owner did the top end oiling rig job.

I Keep coming back to that there is likely sludge / crude or something else that's plugging up those oil passages from the cam bearings to lifters bores this has to be causing the lack of top end oiling. Since you have went through this quite throughly cleaning lifters, inspecting & cleaning the push rods and rockers, all that's left is those oil passages feeding the lifters. Putting the new parts in there without getting enough oil to them isn't likely to work any different. Running some flush though the engine a number of times or doing a partial to a complete tear down to clean out those oil passages really needs to be done. Or if you need to move it real soon maybe work some on the guys custom oiling system so it works better too.

Tough call I do think your right nothing short of a budget ReRing Kit, or full rebuild will for sure fix this the right way so it will be dependable, also maybe you could find a good used engine to swap in too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #14 by moroza » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:48 pm

I'll try 10W40 or straight 30, but am afraid to try much heavier oil because I already lost a distributor drive gear pin, and read that something like 20W50 may break it again. I'm using a standard-volume Melling M74 pump.

bubba22349 wrote:I Keep coming back to that there is likely sludge / crude or something else that's plugging up those oil passages from the cam bearings to lifters bores this has to be causing the lack of top end oiling. Since you have went through this quite throughly cleaning lifters, inspecting & cleaning the push rods and rockers, all that's left is those oil passages feeding the lifters.


There's also the 4-hole metering disks inside the plungers. I don't know exactly how they work or how they look when new, but my hunch is they're the culprit.

So I'm inclined to replace the lifters because 1. the metering disks are suspect, 2. the lifter bodies are worn, slightiy concave, and a rebuild is going to want new ones anyway, 3. they're cheap enough to risk doing twice if it comes to that, and 4. oil is getting to them to what looks like an acceptable degree, but not through them.

However, that's contingent on the block being in decent shape, worth rebuilding. On that note, one more question:

After installing the lifters and pumping oil by hand, I observed a little oil seeping past the lifters in their bores. Is that normal? FWIW, there was no vertical scoring on the lifters, and they were as tight to remove as expected. But if that's a sign the bores are worn too big, I think that'll be the difference between throwing parts at this block, or getting a new engine.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:57 pm

moroza wrote:I'll try 10W40 or straight 30, but am afraid to try much heavier oil because I already lost a distributor drive gear pin, and read that something like 20W50 may break it again. I'm using a standard-volume Melling M74 pump.

bubba22349 wrote:I Keep coming back to that there is likely sludge / crude or something else that's plugging up those oil passages from the cam bearings to lifters bores this has to be causing the lack of top end oiling. Since you have went through this quite throughly cleaning lifters, inspecting & cleaning the push rods and rockers, all that's left is those oil passages feeding the lifters.


There's also the 4-hole metering disks inside the plungers. I don't know exactly how they work or how they look when new, but my hunch is they're the culprit.

So I'm inclined to replace the lifters because 1. the metering disks are suspect, 2. the lifter bodies are worn, slightiy concave, and a rebuild is going to want new ones anyway, 3. they're cheap enough to risk doing twice if it comes to that, and 4. oil is getting to them to what looks like an acceptable degree, but not through them.

However, that's contingent on the block being in decent shape, worth rebuilding. On that note, one more question:

After installing the lifters and pumping oil by hand, I observed a little oil seeping past the lifters in their bores. Is that normal? FWIW, there was no vertical scoring on the lifters, and they were as tight to remove as expected. But if that's a sign the bores are worn too big, I think that'll be the difference between throwing parts at this block, or getting a new engine.


No I would say that the theory of the bad "metering disk" isn't very likely. Because of when you tested them and it took you some good effort to recollapse the lifters piston.

Yes this is quite normal for the oil seepage in the lifter bores, this is to lube the lifter as well as its bore plus lubing their respective camshaft lobes. The lifters move quite slowly in comparison to any of the other engine parts. Even on some very high Milage engines I haven't seen a lifter bore that was worn excessively (this is in severial hundred engines and of many brands). Yet if it was to somehow happen that the bores were worn balding it shouldn't be all that expensive to sleeve the bores. As far as if your 300 can be rebuilt you won't know for certain on that until it's torn down but because these engines are know for their long life the chances are excellent. Again I have only run across a very few that weren't as good a candidate for a rebuild for one of my personal heavy duty truck builds as their cylinders were already bored out to a .040 or .060 over so these didn't meet my use standard to keep the bores at less than .040. Ok good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #16 by moroza » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:45 am

bubba22349 wrote:No I would say that the theory of the bad "metering disk" isn't very likely. Because of when you tested them and it took you some good effort to recollapse the lifters piston.


Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? The check valve that keeps the lifter from collapsing is at the bottom of the plunger, and controls oil flow between the plunger and the lifter body. The metering disk lives right below the pushrod cup near the top of the plunger, and controls oil flow between the plunger and the pushrod.

Yes this is quite normal for the oil seepage in the lifter bores, this is to lube the lifter as well as its bore plus lubing their respective camshaft lobes. The lifters move quite slowly in comparison to any of the other engine parts. Even on some very high Milage engines I haven't seen a lifter bore that was worn excessively (this is in severial hundred engines and of many brands). Yet if it was to somehow happen that the bores were worn balding it shouldn't be all that expensive to sleeve the bores. As far as if your 300 can be rebuilt you won't know for certain on that until it's torn down but because these engines are know for their long life the chances are excellent. Again I have only run across a very few that weren't as good a candidate for a rebuild for one of my personal heavy duty truck builds as their cylinders were already bored out to a .040 or .060 over so these didn't meet my use standard to keep the bores at less than .040. Ok good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Ok, good to know. Thanks for all your $.02! :thumbup:

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:02 am

moroza wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:No I would say that the theory of the bad "metering disk" isn't very likely. Because of when you tested them and it took you some good effort to recollapse the lifters piston.


Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? The check valve that keeps the lifter from collapsing is at the bottom of the plunger, and controls oil flow between the plunger and the lifter body. The metering disk lives right below the pushrod cup near the top of the plunger, and controls oil flow between the plunger and the pushrod.

Yes this is quite normal for the oil seepage in the lifter bores, this is to lube the lifter as well as its bore plus lubing their respective camshaft lobes. The lifters move quite slowly in comparison to any of the other engine parts. Even on some very high Milage engines I haven't seen a lifter bore that was worn excessively (this is in severial hundred engines and of many brands). Yet if it was to somehow happen that the bores were worn balding it shouldn't be all that expensive to sleeve the bores. As far as if your 300 can be rebuilt you won't know for certain on that until it's torn down but because these engines are know for their long life the chances are excellent. Again I have only run across a very few that weren't as good a candidate for a rebuild for one of my personal heavy duty truck builds as their cylinders were already bored out to a .040 or .060 over so these didn't meet my use standard to keep the bores at less than .040. Ok good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Ok, good to know. Thanks for all your $.02! :thumbup:


:hmmm: Well you said that you had one lifter that oiled through the push rod and up to the rocker, so you took the lifters apart again you can look at the one that you know has the good metering disk and then compare it to all the other disks to see if there is any difference in these other disks. Then after trying that I think the only other way you can ever prove or disprove to yourself that it's the lifter disk being the culprit in your lack of top end oiling is to replace all of them with all new lifters.

On the other hand after doing all that and if you find that you still are not getting the top end to oil the rockers with the new lifters, then you will need to take it apart once again to clean out all that sluge build up and make sure that all the oil passages are clean. It's going to be one or the other that is causing the lack of oiling, right now my money's on there being sludge build up in the oil passages. Good luck in the hunt. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #18 by moroza » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:16 pm

Problem solved. It was the lifters.

The new ones had a much tighter fit between the body and the plunger, though not the body and the block. They were also dead flat while the old were slightly concave. The metering disks were a different type than the originals, but the old ones were clearly worn. I believe they work by raising the cup off the plunger, and all had been worn pretty much flat.

Details:
Replaced the pushrods (Enginetech PRD360, made in USA) and lifters (Enginetech L900, made in Mexico) and Lucas breakin lube. Fired up and ran at ~2400rpm, according to a microphone/RPM app on my phone. Over the course of about 10 minutes, one by one the pushrods started oiling properly! Oilpressure was 42-48psi with Shell Rotella T4 15W40 at 4C ambient temperature. Eventually the flow got to leaking out the head, so I replaced the valvecover and ran another 10 minutes at high idle. Before the valvecover went back on, all rockers except #3 intake were getting oil. Most pushrods were spinning slowly; two weren't but they were oiling regardless. Next step is to replace the rockers and at the same time check on #3 intake and the non-spinning pushrods.

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Re: How to inspect lifters?

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:23 am

:beer: congrats on your progress! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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