Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2018 Contributors:
StarDiero75, curts56, DannyG, B RON CO, wsa111, Captainslow42, falconcritter
Econoline, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, 95FordFleetside, turbo6, Max_Effort, WorldChampGramp
cr_bobcat, C.S.Designs, pmuller9, gus91326, rwbrooks50, rocklord, drag-200stang, Big64my79Effie, CNC-Dude, gb500

2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry

Unknown->> M.Ketterer, T.Smith, J.Myers, P.McIntire - Please PM me (1966Mustang) and lemme know who you are!

Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Moderator: Mod Squad

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #1 by 94f150rules » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:26 am

I have a 94 Ford f150 with a 5 speed, it has the black ICM and it looks to have been there a long time but I'm not sure if it's stock or not. After I got my engine back in the truck and running I cleared up all my codes and did a KOER test using my Star II tester. It came up with code 213. I back probed the spout connector and got continuity. Also when I set my timing then plugged the spout in the timing only advanced 2 degrees at idle. I was surprised my ford manual doesn't have troubleshooting procedures in it for the ICM. How can I make sure it's the module before I go just swapping one in there?

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 2941
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:33 am

What is the timing at 3000 rpm with the spout plugged in?

User avatar
MechRick
Registered User
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:43 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #3 by MechRick » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:20 pm

'Spout' is the circuit from the PCM to the ignition module. When unplugging the spout connector with the engine running the code 213 will trip inadvertently. You shouldn't see it on a running test with the spout connector in place though.

When Ford finally remote-mounted the TFI to the heat sink and got it off the dizzy, failures became few and far between. It's a good idea to remove the module from the heat sink (or distributor) and re-apply dielectric compound once in a while. It dries out and loses it's heat transfer properties with age. I'll do this on every new (old) Ford I buy.

You can also pry the cover off the module and look for bubbles in the gel. This indicates a bad or broken connection on the circuit board.

There isn't really a troubleshooting procedure that works without a scope to see the PIP signal going in to the PCM and SPOUT coming out. It's cool to do that on a dual trace to see how the PCM modifies the signal to add timing advance. As an old school Ford tech, I can tell you we just substituted a known good module to diagnose TFI issues. They can give some strange symptoms, and be highly intermittent to boot.

Rock Auto has great prices on TFI modules. I like to carry a spare, along with a certified (by me) 5.5mm socket to replace the screws. Most sockets have to be ground down on a bench grinder to fit the holes in the module.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #4 by 94f150rules » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:36 pm

Thank you, for your response. I guess its a lot like the old GM Coil pack modules, every shop I worked in Kept a couple good ones on the shelf for troubleshooting.

As requested I finally got to do some timing Numbers. Unfortunately I couldn't get my Sears "244.21033 Engine Analyzer" to make a good connection with the Ford Coil, so I couldn't tell what my RPMs were when I revved the engine. So I revved the engine until It wouldn't advance timing anymore. Also Im using a Dial Back gun, its been reliable when compared to my old non inductive guns so I do trust it. Lastly I cant see the 0 mark on the timing pointer on the Passenger side, so I ve been using the 10 degree notch and turning my dial to use it like a 0 mark, then adding 10 to what the dial is set to. For example if I was able to center the timing mark in the V notch and the dial on my gun said 6 degrees, then Im at 16 Degrees.

750RPM Spout Disconnected 16 degrees

750 RPM Spout Connected 22 degrees

Revved high until no more advance Spout Connected 32 degrees

I understand that the computer controls the TFI Module to create my timing curve, how many degrees does the computer add in total?

User avatar
MechRick
Registered User
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:43 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #5 by MechRick » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:57 pm

It depends on a bunch of factors, but 32 degrees sounds about right to me.

Are you still getting codes on a running test?
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #6 by 94f150rules » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:07 pm

I didnt get a chance to check tonight, Im going to disconnect the battery tomorrow when I get home from work and let it sit until I get home from dinner with my girlfriend then Ill run all the tests again.

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #7 by 94f150rules » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:42 pm

I left the battery disconnected for 2 days, I finally reconnected it today, then took my truck for a ride, it felt good, but still not as quick as I expected it to be. I ran the scan again and sure enough code 213 came up again.

Harte3
VIP Member
Posts: 2638
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #8 by Harte3 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:48 am

'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #9 by 94f150rules » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:10 pm

Thanks, but heres the big question, how can I test the ICM to make sure thats the issue?

User avatar
MechRick
Registered User
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:43 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #10 by MechRick » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:59 am

The spout circuit runs from pin 36 of the PCM to the 2nd pin in the ICM (pink wire). Disconnect the PCM and the ICM, key on, check for shorts to power and ground. Key off, check continuity between the PCM and ICM. You should read less than 2-3 ohms. It's a good idea to wiggle the harness during this test.

If that all test good, pop the cover off the PCM and look for problems, especially swollen and leaking electrolytic capacitors. If good, from here you will have to try known good ICM and PCM.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #11 by 94f150rules » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:54 pm

Hey Guys I just wanted to follow up, all 3 of my capacitors were leaking, I ordered a new ecm online today.

94f150rules
Registered User
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #12 by 94f150rules » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:07 pm

OK Im loosing my mind here, Im beyond frustrated and need some help!!

The ECM I received was damaged during shipping, I ended up replacing all my capacitors in my original ECM, I tested from the new capacitors to several points on the board so I know they are installed correctly. I also checked them with a capacitor checker so I know they werent DOA.

I checked I have continuity on all lines leading to the ECM from the ICM, I also checked for shorts to ground and had none, I followed the harnesses and cant find anywhere that is rubbed through or damaged in anyway, I did the Ford check and I am receiving a spout signal.

Ive replaced the distributor, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, ICM, and coil. These were all new parts no rebuilts, and they were installed one at a time to check for any changes. The module is Wells F139, is that correct? The parts house lists the same module for 92 also which shouldnt be a CCD module. No matter what i do I still get code 213 and only about 12 degrees of advance. What am I missing? Im at the point where I just want to drive my truck, its killing me I really need it and I see no end in sight...

User avatar
MechRick
Registered User
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:43 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #13 by MechRick » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:00 pm

I wish you had a known good ECM so you could rule that out.

I recommend going back to basics. When I get stumped on a strange electrical problem like this, I will walk away from it for a while to clear my head. It's amazing how the mind will get stuck in a diagnostic rut. Then I'll research the system to find out exactly how it functions.

When I can see the big picture and understand the system, I'll grab a test light and a dvom and go back at it.

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/833750_1

https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/23 ... dules.html

Pretty good information there, to study over a cup of coffee.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Need Help Troubleshooting ICM

Post #14 by Wesman07 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:16 am

MechRick wrote:I recommend going back to basics. When I get stumped on a strange electrical problem like this, I will walk away from it for a while to clear my head. It's amazing how the mind will get stuck in a diagnostic rut. Then I'll research the system to find out exactly how it functions.


Great advice! I see this happen all the time... and I’m still guilty of getting “lost in the weeds” from time to time. Most of the time the problem turns out to be less complicated that you thought, such as a bad ground. Starting with a fresh head is a must.

I also like the buddy system for these situations. We call each other and say “take a look at this. It’s not getting spark, and that’s ALL I’m telling you”.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BigBlue94 and 11 guests