All Small Six Can you stack crank pulley sheaves?

[ags290]

Can you take some side view pictures showing how all the pulley,are aligned?

Bubba,

I will get some pictures later this week. We are doing the big Mothers Day thing tomorrow so no garage time.

 

[chad]

i guess ur in Fla...not many machinests? Anyway, after a good try, as last resort, a reduction in width might work?
Long as the belt still fits (actually that's abt the time I get the shims out - to answ an early different Q).

 

[ags290]

i guess ur in Fla...not many machinests? Anyway, after a good try, as last resort, a reduction in width might work?
Long as the belt still fits (actually that's abt the time I get the shims out - to answ an early different Q).

Chad,

I’m in Texas. Lots of machine shops. I am just hard headed I guess. I know Ford built a setup for this car. I’m just determined enough to find the bits and pieces.

 

[chad]

I thought Fla frm ur posts yrs ago. Yeah this would definatly B a last resort, I'm like U oem
or sourceable as is - all ways the choice (otherwise ya gotta go thru that BS again).
Good Luck, keep us informed !

 

[ags290]

The saga continues: I borrowed an impact gun and removed the existing single groove add on pulley from the balancer last night. The back side of the 3 bolt pattern on the add on single groove pulley that was currently on the car is almost flat, like around 1/4" to 3/8" deep. The part number on it is C2DE-6A312-A.

When I went to mount the two groove add on pulley from my donor motor I found that the mounting depth on it was deeper and would not mount flush against the still installed single groove balancer. It stuck out and left a gap of about 3/4" between the balancer and the inner grove of the pulley. The only part number I could find on the add on pulley was FM-6318.

So I then looked at the balancer that was on the same donor motor. It is part number C8DE-6318-A2. It is a 2 groove balancer that has just under an inch of back spacing on the front between the outer lip of the outer pulley and the 3 bolt mounting surface. That back spacing is what allows the add on pulley to sit flush.

So here is where I think that I am at: I need to remove the existing 1 groove balancer and go with a 2 groove one. The one from the donor motor I do not want to install it in its current condition. The rubber is pooched out about half of the diameter around on the front side. I contacted Damper Doctor and they have one already built for exchange. I am thinking that I should also use the 2 groove add on pulley that was mated with this dampener from the donor motor. When I stacked the 1 groove add on pulley from the car against the 2 groove balancer from the donor motor there was a gap between the mating surfaces for the crank bolt and the 3 mounting bolts. It is roughly the same 3/4" gap when I tried the combination the other way.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[bubba22349]

Thank you for posting those pictures this sure helps me alot to see the actual parts your trying to use. I now can better visualize why the pulley's you were trying to use weren't lineing up correctly! The Pulley aliamment on Fords is usually always perfect so this is not normally a problem that it can be on some other brands that I have worked on where so crude that pulley's won't line up very well without lots of shimming. Yes I think you are now going about it in the right way using that double grove Dampner is the best way to get were you need to go. The early single pulley dampener that you have on your 170 with the single add on pulley matches correctly but that can be the problem when trying to mix and match these pulley's that are from the wrong Dampner pulley groups. Yes that single Dampner has a flatter face so it's going to need to use pulley's from its own group of add on pulley's that will fit on it correctly. So if you wanted to use an add on a double grove pulley with your single grove dampener it would need to have the exact same back spacing as your current single add on pulley dose in order for it to fit right.

There is also going to be a single grove add on pulley made that has the right offset that will fit on that double grove Dampner too. But that add on pulley's back spacing offset would need to be the exact same as your double grove add on pulley is in order for it to bolt on and line up correctly with the other pulley's. That FM-6318 number makes that double pulley an aftermarket one that were often used by companies like ARA doing the add on aftermarket Air Conditioner systems. https://www.arasourcing.com/ara-systems-inc.html

Did you try that double grove pulley on .your engine to see if it lines up better with the water pump pulley? Best of luck Edited

 

[chad]

Matt has single, double and trip (like mine) dampners...

www.vintageinlines.com-Short Block 2/2

Short block components- bearings, pistons, rings

www.vintageinlines.com

 

[ags290]

Thank you for posting those pictures this sure helps me alot to see the actual parts your trying to use. I now can better visualize why the pulley's you were trying to use weren't lineing up correctly! The Pulley aliamment on Fords is usually always perfect so this is not normally a problem that it can be on some other brands that I have worked on where so crude that pulley's won't line up very well without lots of shimming. Yes I think you are now going about it in the right way using that double grove Dampner is the best way to get were you need to go. The early single pulley dampener that you have on your 170 with the single add on pulley matches correctly but that can be the problem when trying to mix and match these pulley's that are from the wrong Dampner pulley groups. Yes that single Dampner has a flatter face so it's going to need to use pulley's from its own group of add on pulley's that will fit on it correctly. So if you wanted to use an add on a double grove pulley with your single grove dampener it would need to have the exact same back spacing as your current single add on pulley dose in order for it to fit right.

There is also going to be a single grove add on pulley made that has the right offset that will fit on that double grove Dampner too. But that add on pulley's back spacing offset would need to be the exact same as your double grove add on pulley is in order for it to bolt on and line up correctly with the other pulley's. That FM-6318 number makes that double pulley an aftermarket one that were often used by companies like ARA doing the add on aftermarket Air Conditioner systems. https://www.arasourcing.com/ara-systems-inc.html

Did you try that double grove pulley on .your engine to see if it lines up better with the water pump pulley? Best of luck Edited

I have not tried to install the 2 groove dampener because of the condition that it was in. I went ahead and bought a dampener from Damper Doctor before checking with Vintage Inlines. It ended up costing me about $40.00 more. I wish I would have thought of them first. Shame on me.

But at this point I am going to wait for the Damper Doctor piece to arrive and install it with the add on pulley that I already have. Once I get the crank pulley installed I will work forward from there with the crank being my fixed point of reference for aligning everything else. I ended up buying a 5" water pump pulley from Falcon Critter That I hope will work. At this point it's fingers crossed.

Kevin

 

[ags290]

Matt has single, double and trip (like mine) dampners...

www.vintageinlines.com-Short Block 2/2

Short block components- bearings, pistons, rings

www.vintageinlines.com

Too late, I should have looked. It would have saved me about $40.00. I had already ordered one from Damper Doctor when I saw your post. Live and learn.

Kevin

 

[chad]

Matt may need a break, seems to B in hi gear at the FT job....
Next one bra !

 

[ags290]

The Damper Doctor piece showed up today and it's really nice. I have to work this weekend so I wont get a chance to install it until Sunday at the earliest and maybe not even then. I have read the tips and tricks of sealing the woodruff key and heating up the balancer to make it easier to install. Making sure to use some light grease on the crank snout and the lip of the seal. Any other magic that I am missing?

 

[chad]

Scan the whole article, I think its all here, just a lill spread out: no hammer, no press on 'outside' only (separates inner metal from outer - ripping the middle rubber, etc). I thought I might have seen everything. No Chiton's or Haynes available? No buds for 'boots on the ground' 'supervision"? List it all back. We can ck 4 accuracy~

 

[ags290]

Scan the whole article, I think its all here, just a lill spread out: no hammer, no press on 'outside' only (separates inner metal from outer - ripping the middle rubber, etc). I thought I might have seen everything. No Chiton's or Haynes available? No buds for 'boots on the ground' 'supervision"? List it all back. We can ck 4 accuracy~

I have the Ford factory manuals for a 1965 Mustang and a 1964 Falcon. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

 

[chad]

I sometimes wish I could afford that level of manni even w/the electronics today,
did the last site have U fishin off the back ofa row boat for ur avitar?

 

[ags290]

I sometimes wish I could afford that level of manni even w/the electronics today,
did the last site have U fishin off the back ofa row boat for

I bought them both from an online auction for a Vintage Ford repair shop that closed in Minnesota a few years back. It was more in shipping than the bid price for all of the shop manuals I bought. The falcon one was $1.00.

 

[chad]

sharp eye, I'll have ta leave my forest for that tho.
What can the world out there B like?
8^ 0
U from FLA?
"...last site have U fishin off the back ofa row boat for ur avatar?..."
a sig that said "off in some Fla byou fishin somewhere?"

 

[ags290]

No aviators for me. Not even a picture. I guess I’m just boring.

 

[ags290]

So I finally got some garage time today. I replaced the fuel pump with one without a filter which gave me more clearance for the power steering brace from the pump to the block. Here is a picture showing the interference with the filter housing.

 

[ags290]

The added clearance helped me “push” the pump assembly forward and get it to line up more squarely with the front on the engine. Then I noticed what the root problem was with my belt alignment.

There are two styles of pulley’s for the Eaton pump. One for A/C which is flat, and one without A/C which is offset forward to make it line up with the second pulley groove on the balancer and water pump pulley. If you look at the picture above you can see the offset. I had one of the flat A/C pulleys in my collection of parts. Once I installed it and the A/C water pump pulley I bought on here from Falcon Critter everything with the power steering fell into place. All of the pulleys line up with the inner groove on the balancer and water pump. It even took the belt size out of the local parts house catalog. Now I’m getting the A/C compressor and alternator alignment figured out. Of course I ran into a snag with not having the correct alternator but I knew that might be an issue going in. I cannot tell you all how much better I feel. I am keeping a list of all of the part numbers I’m using and will post them to try to help the next guy keep from “reinventing the wheel”

Kevin

 

[chad]

here's ur aviators:
Congrats !
Boy I can see now. The 'double brackets" sure push the PS
pump out there. Glad it got the belt to line up No Clearancing.
All ways want my prts to live'n fight nother day.

Hows things lookin on da odder side?