Starting the rebuild of a 78 200 to go in my 61 Falcon, got the motor torn down and ready to take the head to the machine shop. Goal for the motor is mild/better performance smooth cruiser that runs good on the interstate and around town & something the wife will enjoy driving. Planning on running the : CSC-264-HSP-12 264/264-112* Hydraulic Cam , using the 6 cyl handbook doing the 3 angle cut on the valves, backcut the intake valves, mill the head .050, also plan on running the CI header and there new 1bbl carb ,have a C4 auto trans and the DUI dist. kit. Now the questions, going to replace the guides, seats, & the valves, reading CI's site on the valve springs little unsure on which one, 302 valve with or without the dampner for the above cam? Next there site warns that you can cut into the water jacket when you go to the 1.460 Exhaust Valve but is not mentioned in the handbook, is this really a issue or just a CYA for the product? Plan on using the Non-Adjustable 1.5 Rocker Assembly, .530 Teal Viton Valve Seal , and the one piece retainers. Looking at the Dual Roller Timing Chain Set (170/200ci), any feedback , worth doing? Going to have the engine balanced and use one of the new single groove balancer. Have lots of experance with other inlines, Landcrusier's & Jeeps , Samurai 4cyl and the M151 Military jeep, just getting back to Fords and really like the inlines over the V8's any other suggestions or recommendations or tricks of the trade? Great site thanks for the help
new build questions?
- Thread starter falkon
- Start date
Touch on a couple of points for you.
1) great map and goals, the standard valve springs will be plenty for that cam, several run that without any upgraded springs.
2) honestly, I don't know about valve sizes, I passed up the log for aluminium so I wasn't spending that much on multiple heads.
3) if smoothness is the ultimate goal, the two grove balancer might be a better option for you, someone else will chime in on using that as an upgrade.
4) haven't looked much into the new carb, but I'd compare it to other options before choosing it, there are some 1bbls that flow pretty well, and as stated earlier, 2bbl is an option you might gaze into.
Good luck!
1) great map and goals, the standard valve springs will be plenty for that cam, several run that without any upgraded springs.
2) honestly, I don't know about valve sizes, I passed up the log for aluminium so I wasn't spending that much on multiple heads.
3) if smoothness is the ultimate goal, the two grove balancer might be a better option for you, someone else will chime in on using that as an upgrade.
4) haven't looked much into the new carb, but I'd compare it to other options before choosing it, there are some 1bbls that flow pretty well, and as stated earlier, 2bbl is an option you might gaze into.
Good luck!
A couple of items.
1) Look at the price of your head work. Not sure what your rates are, but when I looked at doing to same to my log head, I came up with around $800. For $300 more I found a rebuilt OZ250/2V head. The difference in performance can't be understated. So, what is your goal. As much as you can get out of an original look?
2) I would highly recommend some adjustable rockers. Look around, even some 1.5 non rollers are kicking around, usually for $100 or so. I may still have some up in my garage in MA, but not sure when I'm getting back up that way. Just makes life a lot easier than shimming rockers. Adjustables with hydraulic lifters = happy camper with little maintenance.
The double chain is worth it if you are doing all the engine work now. For the nominal price difference, it's good to know that your chain is less likely to stretch out over time. But then again, look at your intended use. I drove my 200 around 10k miles a year. So knowing the timing was rock solid was good piece of mind. If you are doing 1000 miles a year, maybe, maybe not worth it. But to me, it's cheap insurance over a new stock chain.
For that cam, you'll be fine with the original springs. The power range is low enough and unless you are drag racing, you're probably not spinning the engine up high enough to get the valves floating. That cam isn't that aggressive.
I would trust the CI input on the exhaust valve. It is close there. Somethings the machinist brought to my attention as well when he was enlarging the valves on the OZ250 head.
1) Look at the price of your head work. Not sure what your rates are, but when I looked at doing to same to my log head, I came up with around $800. For $300 more I found a rebuilt OZ250/2V head. The difference in performance can't be understated. So, what is your goal. As much as you can get out of an original look?
2) I would highly recommend some adjustable rockers. Look around, even some 1.5 non rollers are kicking around, usually for $100 or so. I may still have some up in my garage in MA, but not sure when I'm getting back up that way. Just makes life a lot easier than shimming rockers. Adjustables with hydraulic lifters = happy camper with little maintenance.
The double chain is worth it if you are doing all the engine work now. For the nominal price difference, it's good to know that your chain is less likely to stretch out over time. But then again, look at your intended use. I drove my 200 around 10k miles a year. So knowing the timing was rock solid was good piece of mind. If you are doing 1000 miles a year, maybe, maybe not worth it. But to me, it's cheap insurance over a new stock chain.
For that cam, you'll be fine with the original springs. The power range is low enough and unless you are drag racing, you're probably not spinning the engine up high enough to get the valves floating. That cam isn't that aggressive.
I would trust the CI input on the exhaust valve. It is close there. Somethings the machinist brought to my attention as well when he was enlarging the valves on the OZ250 head.
Imo, log head work loses value unless you're doing it yourself.porting in my area is 800, and 2v conversion is about 4-450. The AL head hasn't had decades of wear, better flow out of the box, and better CR performance (iirc).
Thanks for the input on the springs and valves, I do have the adjustable 170 rocker arms and shaft, but which push rod would be correct with the hyd lifter. Not sure if there is enough room for the 2 groove balancer in a 61 falcon? The double chain I will definitely do after seeing all the slack in the one I'm tearing down. Need to find a good machine shop near Winchester Virginia to balance the lower end, none of the local shops, do balancing.
Got my build done on the 200, built and dyno'd
78 200cid,
bored .40 / crank 10 /10 / 9:1 compression / adjustable rocker arms 1.5 ratio / classic inlines stainless valves 1.75 & 1.46 , one piece retainers, custom length Manton pushrods ( http://mantonpushrods.com/ ) had them in 2 days
milled head 54cc chamber, ported head, polished intake,
comp Cams # CL65-236-4 , grind #260 , broke the cam in with the 902-12 springs then switched to the 903-12 valve springs which are a little heavier ,
( valves started to float with the 902 springs that comp recommend at 4500 rpm ,( these springs are almost the same as stock)
with the 903 no float dyno shut down at 5300rpm
Ford factory Forged rods -part # C3OZ-6200-B with ARP bolts, engine balanced, sealpower stock pistons,
( piston weights were very close only had to take some off 2 of them )
Hastings rings , Clevite bearings, Felpro Gaskets
Classicinline double roller timing chain, (these are the best, excellant chain quality)
Classic inline headers jet coated, amazed at how cool these ran with the jet coating
Classicinlne Universal 1 barrel carb, with billit spacer and 1V Phenolic Carb Spacer,
carb pulled 221scfm at full throttle
Pertronix ignitor II, coil and wires, Dist recurve by Faron ,(FalconSedanDelivery) set at 18 intial & 32 total, will fine tune once in the car
orginal oil pan & pick up from 170 , pan powdercoated, moved dipstick from rear to front
1 groove Harmonic Balancer
here's the dyno reports,
this is with stock point dist, & the lighter valve springs , weather was raining
]
First run yesterday mid morning , heavier valve springs and recurved dist w/ pertronix , readjusted timing weather cool
Last run, weather little warmer, adjusted timing
78 200cid,
bored .40 / crank 10 /10 / 9:1 compression / adjustable rocker arms 1.5 ratio / classic inlines stainless valves 1.75 & 1.46 , one piece retainers, custom length Manton pushrods ( http://mantonpushrods.com/ ) had them in 2 days
milled head 54cc chamber, ported head, polished intake,
comp Cams # CL65-236-4 , grind #260 , broke the cam in with the 902-12 springs then switched to the 903-12 valve springs which are a little heavier ,
( valves started to float with the 902 springs that comp recommend at 4500 rpm ,( these springs are almost the same as stock)
with the 903 no float dyno shut down at 5300rpm
Ford factory Forged rods -part # C3OZ-6200-B with ARP bolts, engine balanced, sealpower stock pistons,
( piston weights were very close only had to take some off 2 of them )
Hastings rings , Clevite bearings, Felpro Gaskets
Classicinline double roller timing chain, (these are the best, excellant chain quality)
Classic inline headers jet coated, amazed at how cool these ran with the jet coating
Classicinlne Universal 1 barrel carb, with billit spacer and 1V Phenolic Carb Spacer,
carb pulled 221scfm at full throttle
Pertronix ignitor II, coil and wires, Dist recurve by Faron ,(FalconSedanDelivery) set at 18 intial & 32 total, will fine tune once in the car
orginal oil pan & pick up from 170 , pan powdercoated, moved dipstick from rear to front
1 groove Harmonic Balancer
here's the dyno reports,
this is with stock point dist, & the lighter valve springs , weather was raining
First run yesterday mid morning , heavier valve springs and recurved dist w/ pertronix , readjusted timing weather cool
Last run, weather little warmer, adjusted timing
129 HP net at 5200 RPM and 155 LB-FT at 3800 RPM is great for a 1-bbl carb engine, the BSFC figure is pretty good too.
Well done!
How are you liking the Argentine Daytona carb? It lookes like it runs exceptionally well, with a really nice fuel curve. The power is 40% up on any stock 200, similar to what Ak Miller needed two or four carbs to get in 1967 if you look at"Horsing Around with the Mustang Six"at Classic Inlines on http://www.classicinlines.com/HA1.asp.
He got 105 rwhp with the 260 cam and 240 carb, about what your 129 flywheel hp is through a manual gearbox and 7.25" axle and tires..
The best 1-bbl rear wheel hp was Mike R's 66 Mustang with an Autolite 200cfm-1-bbl 1.34" venturi with 117.1 rwhp at 4000 rpm and 165.1 lb-ft at 3150 on http://www.classicinlines.com/PCdyno.asp
Well done!
How are you liking the Argentine Daytona carb? It lookes like it runs exceptionally well, with a really nice fuel curve. The power is 40% up on any stock 200, similar to what Ak Miller needed two or four carbs to get in 1967 if you look at"Horsing Around with the Mustang Six"at Classic Inlines on http://www.classicinlines.com/HA1.asp.
He got 105 rwhp with the 260 cam and 240 carb, about what your 129 flywheel hp is through a manual gearbox and 7.25" axle and tires..
The best 1-bbl rear wheel hp was Mike R's 66 Mustang with an Autolite 200cfm-1-bbl 1.34" venturi with 117.1 rwhp at 4000 rpm and 165.1 lb-ft at 3150 on http://www.classicinlines.com/PCdyno.asp
Engine was built & dyno'd by Lee Edwards Racing, great Pro Stock Racer and a wealth of knowledge on building race motors, he's a one man show and works on what he wants to, and this was a change of pace for him, got hooked up with him though a friend. As he told me these are real dyno numbers not inflated. I'm very happy with the job he did, not cheap but anyone can buy a crate motor
Still waiting on the car to come back from paint so will be awhile before it's on the road, will have a C4 trans and 8" maverick rear with 3:00 gears & 195-65-15 tire size, Carb ran great out of the box and didn't need much adjustment, starts right up & did very well on the dyno, will need to play with the idle once I get it in the car, and still need to figure out the trans kickdown.
Distributor job Faron did turn out very well and was well worth the money,
Do need to change the water pump pulley, when using the billet thermostat housing from Classicinlines the stock pulley will hit, had to shim it out to do the test, stock pulley is like 5.75" so I just ordered the 5" billet so it should clear
Still waiting on the car to come back from paint so will be awhile before it's on the road, will have a C4 trans and 8" maverick rear with 3:00 gears & 195-65-15 tire size, Carb ran great out of the box and didn't need much adjustment, starts right up & did very well on the dyno, will need to play with the idle once I get it in the car, and still need to figure out the trans kickdown.
Distributor job Faron did turn out very well and was well worth the money,
Do need to change the water pump pulley, when using the billet thermostat housing from Classicinlines the stock pulley will hit, had to shim it out to do the test, stock pulley is like 5.75" so I just ordered the 5" billet so it should clear
congrats with that combo of parts it should be a great driver!Similar threads
