Where to get started?

[MPGmustang]

So, after reading all i can about the i6's on classic inline's website, and related articles on the fordsix forums, i dont' know where to start so i made a plan, tell me what you think and if possible where to get some of these parts i'm craving

1st things first, i have an early 65 mustang (dates indicate dec 64), with a 68 200 attached to a c-4 and a 1940 holley carb, i have redone the exhasut (and it leaks still 4th time for that donut) with 2.25 inch pipe to the stock manifold. i have added A/C from vintageair.com one under the dash and hidden, works wonders. 3 months ago i have gotten into an accedent, (is was still drivable) but still cost the insurance 4k to fix (replaced front fenders, hood, grill, radiator support and a few other odds and ends). my MPG is roughly 14.5 in town, and probably 15-16 on the road, the rear wheels were changed (before i got the car) so it has 215's and the front has stock 195's don't think it helps for intown driving. no pwr stearing (i like it without, less to fix). the only cancer it has is behind the passanger rear wheel low fender (3 inches roughly). i think i'm the 4th owner. and a 7inch rear axel, dont' know much about it.

projects (listed in order from what i want to do)

t-5 conversion- have read many posts and earched like crazy for it, kastang is a very nice informative website (THANK YOU!!!!!), but i still have questions for as my tranny is auto i need the entire assembly of the clutch pedal, and i want MPG to be the main thing i'm going for. so with that in mind i thought of getting the lowest gear ratio i can a 1st @ 3.2 with od @ .63, i believe it's the 199 or 200 code. alond with other things i will need like a bellhousing clutch (well everything) where can i go to find these things (most things can be used as long as their in good working order). i'm not a junk yard guru nor do i really know what to look for. any tips/ tricks would be handy.

engine upgrade- this is alot for me to take in so i have tried to understand what i need/want. i want to mil out the stock head for a 54cc compresion chamber. change my cam to a 264* @ .45 lift on both intake and exhaust with 112* peaks, goal is to have really good low end torq all the way up to roughly 3500 rpm, it's not to be a street machine but a DD as it is now, 3500 rpm would give me plenty of power in lower speeds but what about passing gear speed, i might need more?? this is what i don't know. next part is the carb, with the head and cam done i want to install the new pony carb 200cfm 1v vaporizor, i kinda know my carb is going but it still works, i have rebuilt it twice this year (first i did, not a good job as 2 months later my uncle did (used to race i6's) and he informed me i really need a new carb but he got it working anyways'). the new 1100 would be a great pick for me as i want performance without too much modifications. i will also get a nice dress-up kit from classic inlines, shiny is my weakness.

exhast- for what i want to do this will be last, i will get some nice headers (shiny is a must from inline again) and dual it all the way, what i want to know is if torbos help or just sound cool? hehe i'm looking to do this last becasue i want to surpise most ppl, i go to weekly car shows for the fun of it, talk to alot of ppl, and get tips and tricks (like when my car was built, and what kind of engine i have)

lastly- mantainance, this website has changed my mind on the i6, i want to keep it and have a jaw-drop-i-can't-believe-it's-a-six look on ppls faces. MPG is my biggest concern i want to hopefully hit 400-500miles on a single tank of gas, atm i'm lucky if i get 230, i know this is expensive and depending on the cost of the t-5 will show me how much time i really have to wait. i'm a full time student, witha full time job roughly making 32k/yr i don't care how much this will set me back i just want to get it done, i really like my car and am glad i can keep it the same in most aspects.

far far far future- front disk brakes/wheels- i found a website (from ci) that offers 4lug disk setup with use of the original spindles, along with dual master brake resivor, it's 600ish but still thinking about it and not sold on it yet, my 4 drum brakes really do work great, better than the bigger drums on my dads 55 packard.

please give any tips/links/thoughts/clearifications/warnings that you want, as i'm very hungry to do this. and anything would really help. again this is a rough scetch of what i want to do will/might change but is in good order for me.

thanks in advance.

Richard

 

[addo]

Warnings? Keep it running and registered. The day it stops being mobile/usable, is the day death starts...

Start a contingency fund to bail out unexpected events. No good if you burn every cent on a T-5 swap then need a new rear end straight away.

Wheels/tyres - 195 is actually plenty wide for an older Mustang that's being driven ordinarily. Over that width you are probably wasting fuel and wearing your rubber on the edges more than needed. Look for a 15" rim to make tyre choices easier (cheaper) than with a 14" wheel.

Aside from that, your chosen rubber will help dictate the gear ratios (including rear gears). Looking towards the engine - just dealing with externals for the time being (ignition and carb) will get you under control.

As the motor's unoriginal you could build up a replacement and swap it in more time-effectively. Don't underrate the need for stuff like torque plate honing or block decking - a lot of rebuild places will try to muscle a customer out of doing this because they either don't get it, or can't do it.

 

[rbohm]

8) to start, upgrade the ignition to an electronic ignition. i used a duraspark distributor and hooked it to a chrysler ignition box in my old 66 falcon, and it worked great.

i second addo's advice on building a fund to cover contingencies, and keeping the car running as much as possible.

i would make sure the suspension and brakes are in the best shape possible, remember these are safety items. for brakes, check out http://www.scarebird.com/ as they have brackets you can buy to upgrade to disc brakes at a very reasonable cost. they also have a parts list to follow, so you can buy parts as you can afford them, and them do the conversion over a weekend.

as for the rear end, you can upgrade that to an 8" rear from a maverick. find one from a six cylinder car and you can keep your four bolt wheels. you will likely need to change the rear U-joint though as the stock one in your stang and the stock one in the maverick are different and you will need a hybrid joint. any driveshaft shop can help you there.

as for wheels and tires, i have 15x7 wheels from a fox body mustang on my 64 falcon, i do use adapters to change the wheel bolt pattern. it is not a bad thing though as it spaces the wheels out 1" so they clear the upper control arms in the front. i have 205/60-15 tires on the wheels and they fit nicely, though i need to clearance the inner fender lip in the rear. i had them on my 66 falcon and had no issues even though that car also had manual steering.

as to the T5 swap, gather the parts needed to make the swap, and again do the swap over a weekend. in fact if you do the rear end swap and the trans swap at the same time, you can save some money by having a driveshaft built after the swaps are done. figure the car will be down a week though at that point.

as for rear end gearing, if you choose to go with the T5, i suggest using a 3.50 rear gear. that will give you a lot of grunt off the line, and when you hit fifth gear you will be rolling along efficiently. if you stay with the C4 then go with a 3.00 gear. it gives a bit more grunt than a 2.80 gear, and you turn less rpm than with a 3.20 gear.

if you are going to build an engine for the car, find a core in a salvage yard, build it along with what ever trans you decide to use, and put them in at the same time. this will let you keep the car running until you are ready to swap engines.

as for your cam selection, i like it, but i would go with the 110 degree lobe separation rather than the 112. your choice though in the end.

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

Upgrade the Ignition, nothing will give more help/ benifit , ( unless the other part is shot )

 

[rocklord]

Richard,

Second on the Duraspark. Will really help with driveability and mileage.

If you have a 68 200, then it has the dual pattern block and you can go with the larger bellhousing, clutch, and PP for the T5 conversion. Don't get caught up with looking only for a 199 or 200 transmission. Any T5 from a V8 Mustang should give you the first gear and OD ratios you are looking for.

The Maverick 8-inch rear end swap is a good upgrade. With this rear end, you have so many more axle ratios to choose from. The original I6 Mavericks came with either 2.89 or 3.00 ratios; these would help with your mileage but when you upgrade your engine, you should consider 3.27s or 3.55s.

I agree that you should look at Scarebird for disc brake adapters. You can probably do the upgrade for half what the other vendor is charging.

And as previously stated, start a contingency fund for those unexpected fires that need to be put out.

All of these upgrades mentioned I am planning to do to my 65 Mustang. Unfortunately, cost does matter to me (actually my wife, must be nice being single) so I am constantly looking for ways to do it cheaper.

Good Luck

 

[MPGmustang]

as for the ignition, i already have pertronix (came with the car) as for the fund, i have already figured that out, anything i buy i set the same amount aside, so a t5 conversion might cost 1250 in used parts i'll have 1250 more set aside, it works for so far, i had 2k saved at the time i got in the accident which paid for the paint job (it need it and timing was right) i will do the same for these modifications,

thank you for your posts

Richard

 

[mugsy]

As said previously: Safety First. Do the brake upgrade first and then worry about the tranny, engine mods, etc.

My $0.02

tanx!

 

[CoupeBoy]

Personally I wouldn't perform any brake upgrade that re-used the original spindles on the early cars (64.5, 65, 66) the spindle is the actual weak point of those years. On the few pictures that I've seen the shaft that the bearings sit on and that the nut screws onto to hod the hub onto the spindle breaks off. If you are insistent on keeping 4 lug then buy the discbrakeswap.com kit for 65-73 Mustangs and have the rotors redrilled for 4 lug, I think he might even offer that as a service.

Don't get me wrong, I like dinking around with stuff, In the shop I've got a DSII with all parts to use it with either a Duraspark or GM module, but if I had the $$ I'd go straight to the Classic Inlines DUI. My buddy out in Washington has a '66 Mustang 200/2.77 and he's had points, DSII with Duraspark, and the DUI and by far he's enjoyed the easier starting, and less complicated setup of the DUI over the DSII.

If your engine is is good condition otherwise I'd hazard a guess that with a vaporizer (also available through Classic Inlines) and a DUI you would push your MPG into the mid to upper 20's. (25 * 16 = 400) the automagic is keeping you from reaching full potential. You could always install a later (70 Mustang) gas tank for increased capacity also, they are 22 gallons versus your current 16. (25 *22=550)

-ron

 

[Vin Man]

Richard - welcome to the club. I'm also in the Phoenix area (Gilbert) so maybe we can help each other out from time to time.

I suggest you purchase the Falcon Ford Six Performance Guide from ClassicInlines. Good read and gives great advice.

Ignition - agreed - will get you running much smoother. I would look at carb as well.

 

[MPGmustang]

Thank you for all your comments, i really appreciate it :!:

so, from what i've been told, i should change my order?


moving carb and dis first, then t-5+rear end 2nd, head/cam 3rd, exhaust.

i have read about teh DUI but others have said that pertronix is still fine, but if it's that much of difference i guess i'll have to invest.

i found out that i'm not really advancing with my carb so it's kinda a must to replace, i'm finding more and more flat spots lately.

the brakes are great, i have officially replaced all parts on the brakes now, drums, shoes, internal parts, cyl's, and master brake cyl, even had the mustang shop do a run down on the brakes incase i missed somthing, but they said all i forgot was to adjust the brake pedal higher for more braking room. so brakes really are on the back burner, as i don't own a lead foot, i'm a usually a good 50ft away form ppl infront of me.

Richard

 

[MPGmustang]

update,

i have installed the 1100v pony carb, here is the latest numbers

202.4 miles
9.916 gallons
(tires are 1.045 bigger than stock, the speedometer/odometer is calabrated for stock)
Final outcome - 21.3 MPG!!!! (i was getting 14mpg)

the carb helped alot, but i still think that the vacum module (wasn't working) helped get there...

things I have found out about my car:
I have an early (december) 65 mustang, with a 68 i6 200, with a distributor from 6cyl starting from 1948-1964, the carb was a holley 1940 carb from a 76-79 i6, the car is coded for a manual trans where I have a c4.

so while figureing out what year my car was peiced together i found out that my dis. was taken out of a car from 1948- 1964, i thought the hole in 65's and later became bigger.... would it mean it's too small? should i keep it in longer.. 21mpg is big for me...

Thanks all for your help in finding what my car is!!!
Richard

Goal - 400-500 miles per tank
atm- 4cyl t5
next- DUI upgrade.

 

[CoupeBoy]

I'm a little leery of that distributor, to me it's an unknown quanity, and it's not electronic. I'm guessing once you replace that, and start driving under 70mph your mileage is going to shoot over the 25mpg mark. FWIW 21MPG * 16 gallons = 320miles per tank or 5 hours at 60mph, my butt gets tired after about 3hrs in the seat. If you upgrade your gas tank now to the '70 22gallon tank you will have broken into your 400-500miles per tank that was your original goal. Or if you can get it up to 25mpg * 16 gallons = 400..

Keep up the good work.
-ron

 

[MPGmustang]

sorry for the long post, but just a few things I think I should ask about or comment my idea's.

the distributor does have pertronics installed, so it's not too bad, but yes I will change it out with a DUI... when I get my next $350 bucks...

down to the gas tank, I'm not looking for more weight, I'm looking for more distance, besides I already have a 4cyl t5 and 3.03 beellhousing and the double pedal assembly, I might as well continue and use it all i'm only $300 ish away in parts, just taking it slow.

the 21.3 mpg was a fun drive to payson az and back to chanlder az, some fun roads too. but I'm excited because the carb is already paying for itself

I do have that cronic exhaust leak that I do need to fix, just haven't had the time, as I have an aftermarket ac braket that's in the way, I have tightened the bolts and it seems to help, for now. I've just been waiting till I get headers...

now if I can keep under 70mph I bet my mileage would be better too...

as for my goal.. maybe I should just change it to 400miles before my next fillup... , my average fillup is 12gallons and 14 max, so I'll go off 14.. 400/14=28.5 I need another 7mpg boost.
if changed, I'm hoping that the t5 and dui do that for me. then I won't need to mil the head, and change the cam. but I still want dual exhaust.

as for milling the head, i guess i already have the desired compresion, if it is stock, or stock with a newer head gasket. according the the falcon handbook:
a 65-69, 200ci has an intake manifold of 1100cc, intake dia of 1.649 and exhaust of 1.38, the cumbustion chamber is 51-53 measured cc.

I have a 68, 200ci. my plan was to mil to 54cc, I suspect that the head gasket has been replaced before so I should be close to what I wanted.

for the cam, I'm sure that it's probably stock, but if I don't need to mil the head then the more simpler way is to replace the 1.5 rockers with 1.6 rockers giving a better lift for breathing abilities...

so it come down to....
DUI distributer (350)
T5 installation (300) (more as i have most of the parts)
1.6 rockers (275)
dual exhaust (400-600)

I'm looking at 1200-1400 more for my desired modifications, and hoping I get 400-500 per tank.

spark plugs... I have a 40k coil, what should be my gap? I think it would be .01 for every 10k and I do have pertronics that help so maybe .045-.047?

Thanks,
Richard

 

[Vin Man]

sorry for the long post, but just a few things I think I should ask about or comment my idea's.

the distributor does have pertronics installed, so it's not too bad, but yes I will change it out with a DUI... when I get my next $350 bucks...

down to the gas tank, I'm not looking for more weight, I'm looking for more distance, besides I already have a 4cyl t5 and 3.03 beellhousing and the double pedal assembly, I might as well continue and use it all i'm only $300 ish away in parts, just taking it slow.

the 21.3 mpg was a fun drive to payson az and back to chanlder az, some fun roads too. but I'm excited because the carb is already paying for itself

I do have that cronic exhaust leak that I do need to fix, just haven't had the time, as I have an aftermarket ac braket that's in the way, I have tightened the bolts and it seems to help, for now. I've just been waiting till I get headers...

now if I can keep under 70mph I bet my mileage would be better too...

as for my goal.. maybe I should just change it to 400miles before my next fillup... , my average fillup is 12gallons and 14 max, so I'll go off 14.. 400/14=28.5 I need another 7mpg boost.
if changed, I'm hoping that the t5 and dui do that for me. then I won't need to mil the head, and change the cam. but I still want dual exhaust.

as for milling the head, i guess i already have the desired compresion, if it is stock, or stock with a newer head gasket. according the the falcon handbook:
a 65-69, 200ci has an intake manifold of 1100cc, intake dia of 1.649 and exhaust of 1.38, the cumbustion chamber is 51-53 measured cc.

I have a 68, 200ci. my plan was to mil to 54cc, I suspect that the head gasket has been replaced before so I should be close to what I wanted.

for the cam, I'm sure that it's probably stock, but if I don't need to mil the head then the more simpler way is to replace the 1.5 rockers with 1.6 rockers giving a better lift for breathing abilities...

so it come down to....
DUI distributer (350)
T5 installation (300) (more as i have most of the parts)
1.6 rockers (275)
dual exhaust (400-600)

I'm looking at 1200-1400 more for my desired modifications, and hoping I get 400-500 per tank.

spark plugs... I have a 40k coil, what should be my gap? I think it would be .01 for every 10k and I do have pertronics that help so maybe .045-.047?

Thanks,
Richard

Good list. I am planning the 1.6 rockers at some point as well, but they are way down on my list. Carb and ignition first.

I found my DUI by posting in the wanted section of this board. Got a used one for 1/2 price and a replacement cap/rotor from Mike at ClassicInlines.

 

[MPGmustang]

Update:

List

1. DUI
http://www.classicinlines.com/proddetai ... D200%2DDZY
2. Electric Fan
(will post pick of how much room i don't have)
3. Sub-Frame Connectors
(AZ mustang shop custom connectors, $560) not top priority
4. 5 Lug and disc brake conversion (Want 8inch rear 3.08 or 3.00 rear)
http://www.discbrakeswap.com/Mustang%20 ... SWAP2.html
need rear
5. Rims and Tires (i want a 16inch rim as i like the look)
6. Bench Seat (i head they're more comfy for longer trips)
7. Darker Tint on the front windows (i have the darkest legal tint but how dark do others go and do you have problems w/ authorities?)
8. i'm staying with the single exhaust, but i'm goign to change my muffler... i want one that's thoaty but not LOUD at high rpm's not going flowmaster as that drone was horrible for dates... (any idea's)

With the t-5 installed i'm getting 21 intown, better than the 18 intown with the c4... i don't know the mpg on the road @ 65mph but @ 80-90 it's 19mpg

Is it possible to run the Electric Fan with my stock alternator? or do i have to upgrade to a higher amp alt? like 100 amp, and if so is there one that is an exact replacement? i don't want a 1 wire, as i'm not an electrical guru... but if i can get the right parts together i'll let some one else install it for me...

That exhaust leak i did right this time, when i replaced the head gasket i applied ultra copper to bother sides of the gasket, no leak yet and performance has increased... question on the manifold... the part where the tube goes thru is boldging (like it's inflated) is it possible that it's rust inside of it? i have't taken a hanger to it so i don't know if it's clogged, it's not leaking tho...

-Richard