100 MPG

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i was just researching some chemistry, and i got some interesting info. im going to disagree with what i said last week, but heres what ive got:
according to my chemistry book, octane, as well as most other HC's have a negative enthalpy of formation. in simple terms, that means their internal energy is less than that of elemental C and H. Naturally, they are less negative than CO2 and H2O, which is why burning them produces energy. Most of us know that anything in its elemental form has 0 internal energy, but what i just found is interesting. for carbon, it has zero energy as graphite, but when it has been broken from HC's, it exists as a gas, which has a VERY POSITIVE energy. Likewise, hydrogen has a zero value as H2, but when you rip individual H atoms off a molecule, they also have a VERY POSITIVE energy. if any of you want the actual numbers, just ask, but i dont want to bore everyone if you dont want it.
Therefore, if we do superheat our fuel to somewhere above where it decomposes into individual atoms, we get a heck of a lot more energy out of it! naturally, we would use exhaust(wasted energy) for this process. Until i have time to research what temp is required, i dont know if exhaust is even hot enough, but it looks good on paper!

the other thing i found, as someone asked about, fuel "cracking". according to my chemistry book, cracking is the process of changing a "straight" hydrocarbon into a "forked" hydrocarbon. oil refineries do this to raise the octane rating, according to my book, from about 50 up to where we can use it (around 90-ish).
my book even describes the process: the fuel is mixed with a catalyst (Al2O3 or SiO2), and then heated to only 400-500*C. This cracks some of the fuel as i described above, and breaks some of it into smaller HC's. And according to a different section of the book, the smaller HC's contain more energy, if you know what everything means. what i mean by that is that while the smaller HC's have smaller energy numbers, those are calculated per mole. if you convert that to energy per gram (or any other unit of mass), you find significantly more energy in the smaller HC's.
my example here is with smaller HC's so its easier to read:
CH4 (methane) has -74.8 KJ/mol, and
C4H10 (butane) has -147.6 KJ/mol
if you divide these numbers by the molecular mass, you find that
CH4 (methane) has -4.675 KJ/gram, and
C4H10 (butane) has -2.545 KJ/gram,
i wish my book had exact numbers on the bigger HC's, but if the trend follows (and theres no reason it wouldnt), we might tripple the fuel's internal energy if we crack it all the way down!
Which means that breaking into those smaller HC's gets a lot more out of your gallon of gas! so cracking the fuel on the road might do a lot for us if we can find a way to do it effectively!!
i dont know if the exhaust has enough energy flowing through it to do all this, but it might be worth a try!!

the other question we have to ask is if the fuel would detonate, instead of burn properly. if yes, then 3/4 of what i just told you is useless, but i really dont know.
Also, this kind of superheated fuel probably wouldnt be able to pass through the intake manifold without igniting, so it would have to be injected. If your engine is built for FI, thats as easy as replacing the injectors with something that accepts a vaporized fuel.

for those of you who arent bored to death yet, we all have a lot more to think about. if y'all have any more info, please post it so we can all think about it!
 
dcook said:
How about a 4 cylinder running 11.2:1 compression, 27 psi boost, on pump gas. Makes 487 hp and gets 29 mpg.
I am assuming you are serious due to the rest of what you have said, but I would really like to see an article on this or something. I will soon be rebuilding my 2.3 turbo and I already get 29mpg now but I only have 140 hp now. If I could make 487hp and get 29mpg and stay streetable, I am pretty sure you would not be able to ever wipe the smile off my face. If you know where I can check this out, I would really appreciate it.
 
Guys, I'm just an old gearhead that can't help but tinker.
Years back I had a mustang 2 with a 302 2v engine and auto trans.
Thing ran like the dickens and surprised a few teens in new camaros.
What sucked was the mileage. Swapped the 2 barrel factory carb for another 2 barrel from a V8 granada with SROD manual (smaller carb).
Went from 15 mpg hiway to 16.5. Sandwiched a piece of screen door between two carb to manifold spacers and got 18 mpg.
So I can't help but think that running a 2 stage 2 barrel, heated spacer like the chevette has and pulling air off the heat riser when not under full throttle would be a winning mileage combination.
 
Wow, I just looked over all all those articles and that website and all I can say is wow! It makes perfect sense and I cant believe I have not heard of that before. The real question is why havent the car manufacturers picked up on this and ran with it. I will have to do some more research and see if similar things can be done with my little 2.3. Thank you so much dcook for those references, they were a huge help and definetely got me thinking.
 
I'm somewhat of a late to this but Its definately intriguing, and in looking for the temperture at which gasoline auto-ignites, I stumbled on this site.

http://www.vfis.us/

That seems to be pretty much what this whole topic is about, maybe one of you can put that information to use ;)
 
Yep - a guy named Michael May was one of Endyn's founders. He was the cylinder head designer for Jag HE V12s in the early 80s. 11.5:1 on truly bad unleaded gas with very crude electronics. They were getting 260+ hp out of an antiquated Jag design, and getting it reliably. Impressive then and now.

I'd love to see what one of their Mini setups would do. That would be a lethal little car.
 
FloridaRustang":d8ldtawa said:
If I may add some extra substance to the discussion...

Enter second important chapter, which relates past experiences of the author up to the point of the writing of the book. One of which is basically creating the Atkinson cycle (he didn't call it that, but that was what it was) in a Ford 200 L6. Yes, they had one laying around and ground a camshaft for it that held the intake open for half the compression cycle. Turned the 200 into a 100. For intake purposes only, though. The expansion cycle was the full 200 inches. And he milled the head (and possibly other things) to bring the static CR to 16:1. That's 8:1 when you blow half your charge back out.

The Ford Escape Hybrid is atckinson cycle, but it doesn't do it the same way you described. Something about extra linkage attached to the crankshaft.

There are a few guys on the 1st gen econoline group running stock 2bbl 289's getting mid 20's with a 3 speed manual and 3.50 gears. Weight has alot to do with this, the econo's are around 2500 lbs.
 
weight is definately the biggest factor there! are those econlolines youre talking about an atckinson cycle, or a conventional cycle? personally, i would think that anything around 2500 pounds would be at least in the mid-20's if set up properly.
it always is interesting to see old technology get used in new models!
 
Went from 15 mpg hiway to 16.5. Sandwiched a piece of screen door between two carb to manifold spacers and got 18 mpg.

How did you do that without getting a vacume leak ?
 
76maverick":3neq3y8e said:
Went from 15 mpg hiway to 16.5. Sandwiched a piece of screen door between two carb to manifold spacers and got 18 mpg.

How did you do that without getting a vacume leak ?

well, i tried it in my truck, so i'll answer you. you just sandwich the screen between two gaskets and torque her down like you should.
but let me warn you, its not a perfect system! in my truck, the first tank it brought me from 14 to 15mpg, and it slowly declined from there. after about 5 tanks of gas, the screen started to get clogged up to the point where i couldnt run over half throttle. a good spray of carb cleaner cleaned that up for the next two tanks, then i needed it again. last night, i only had about a 30 mile range before it clogged up, so i'll take it off after this class. anyway, i think the problem i have is that my screen is aluminum. aluminum corrodes, leaving a black residue, which is more than enough to clog its holes. while i havent had it off yet, i think thats whats happening-it makes sense to me.
so my plan is to find a screen made of brass or something that wont corrode, and it should do better.
anybody else tried it?
 
brass will corrode also. Ever notice how it tarnishes. Stainless would work. I hope the clogging is all from corrosion or else your engine is getting bad doeses of crud from the air filter or fuel filter.
 
ok, so im really ignorant here... but get rid of the distributor. then make it enite of compression, like a deisle... am i off base or just not understanding? no need to reply on the post, if you feel the need private messages
 
well, Bushido was saying to make a diesel out of it. the reason we cant do that is because we need something to control the ignition timing. in a diesel, thats injection timing, and in gas, thats spark timing. without control, youre basically screwed!
yeah, you said not to respond, but someone else might want an answer
 
ASMART":312oam2u said:
brass will corrode also. Ever notice how it tarnishes. Stainless would work. I hope the clogging is all from corrosion or else your engine is getting bad doeses of crud from the air filter or fuel filter.
where do you find stainless window screen? i ran all over town to hardware stores and hobby shops, only one place had brass, so i bought a piece. i'll install it today. outside of that, all they had was aluminum or nylon or other non-metalic trash. if you can find a supplier fo stainless, tell us where!
--josh
 
I have no idea. Just thought if you could get it you wouldn't have to worry about clogging due to corrosion. Is heat the concern with nylon?
 
You can find stainless screen from McMaster Carr, online at www.mcmaster.com.

They have more grades of stainless screen than you can count. Its hard to know what size to buy. Look at part number 9319T575.
 
I picked up some stuff that was marine anti-flashback screening. That may be a little fine for your application. Got it from a place that did carby rebuilds.

Regards, Adam.
 
pickupman":2tdzsyw5 said:
weight is definately the biggest factor there! are those econlolines youre talking about an atckinson cycle, or a conventional cycle? personally, i would think that anything around 2500 pounds would be at least in the mid-20's if set up properly.
it always is interesting to see old technology get used in new models!

The 1st gen Econoline in stock form has a 144, 170, or 240.

Also someone was talking about turning a gas engine into a diesel. The later Isuzu Axioms were direct injection gasoline engines, although there is probably a reason we aren't all driving gasoline powered diesel engines.
 
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