144 to 200 interchangeability expertise?

Got a 1979 Ford Futura 200ci 3.3 liter I-6 with a C4 auto. Trying to sell.
Got this question from Austin Comet:

Austin Comet":1wdc0siz said:
I've got a 1960 Comet with a 144. The 200 should just bolt right up, correct? Thanks

Anybody done this? Hard? Easy? Bolt in or a fabricators nightmare?
 
If he's buying the engine and trans together with all the other goodies you offered to throw in, the biggest hassle is probably getting it there. He'll need engine mounts and a C4 crossmember off a 64/65 (I think) Falcon/Comet, and for the auto to work in all positions (be able to engage "1") possibly that era steering column as well.

Far easier than putting in a 250, 300 or eight.
 
addo":3tqw8fto said:
If he's buying the engine and trans together with all the other goodies you offered to throw in, the biggest hassle is probably getting it there. He'll need engine mounts and a C4 crossmember off a 64/65 (I think) Falcon/Comet, and for the auto to work in all positions (be able to engage "1") possibly that era steering column as well.

Far easier than putting in a 250, 300 or eight.

I'm assuming you saw my ad:
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20494
You can see from the pics that it's all there, only thing unbolted was engine from trans. So both the 144 and the 200 have the same block dimensionally? Engine mounts are in the same location? Same bellhousing bolt patern?
 
"I'm assuming you saw my ad:
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20494
You can see from the pics that it's all there, only thing unbolted was engine from trans. So both the 144 and the 200 have the same block dimensionally? Engine mounts are in the same location? Same bellhousing bolt patern?"

Yes to most of it. He will need to use the 144 oil pan and the oil pump pickup tube - but keep the 200 oil pump.

He will need to rewire to an alternator.

The 144's tranny will bolt to the 200, but the C/4 will not bolt to the 144.

Easiest to use the 144 crank pulley, and water pump, and water pump pulley. He should hang onto the 200 pieces so if he decides later to use the 200 stuff, he can. The engine needs to be slid back as far as possible to use the longer water pump.

We have three and 1/2 pages on this swap in our Handbook.

Good luck with your sale.
 
Okay, I'm kinda at a crossroads here. Everybody please give me your opinions on what I should do. Let me give a little background. I'm pretty good with my hands but have never torn apart an engine (done about everything else on a car tho). I got this 60 Comet with a 144cid and standard tranny several months ago that I am currently working on. It sat in a salvage yard for two years. A good source told me that it ran two years ago but I have no idea on the engines condition, other than the fact that the oil is still a nice color.
I pulled the carb and it's been with a friend of mine for a rebuilt who owns a shop. I just found out today that the carb is shot. My dilema is, what if I put more money into another carb and find out that the engine is gone or needs work? Should I just not take the risk and put this 200 in the Comet instead? Keep in mind that this is just a hobby project. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Phil
 
if the 200 was running fine when pulled (havent' seen the ad, so i dont' know), then i'd say go for it
you'll get more power with a minimum of hassle

just take your time when you do it, maybe paint the block and all, and when you install it don't rush
 
I am in the process of putting a 71 Maverick 170/3.03 into a 61 Comet. It is a challenge in the details. Yes the engine will bolt right in, but the transmission tunnel will not accomodate the larger bellhousings used on the post 66 "dual drilled" blocks (for kukm66) . I had to persuade it with the BFH for it to fit. the emission do-dads on a '79 will have to be stripped off the exh. manifold or manifold changed to fit the bay. The engine mounts to the frame are 60/61 specific on Falcon/Comets so the original type need to be used or changes to the frame mounts. The accelerator setup of the later engine would I presume be a cable linkage as the 71 MAverick is - so that has to be changed which is not difficult but requires drilling the firewall and installing the later pedal. The 60 Comet has vacuum wipers so the wipers need to be converted to electric from a post 62 Falcon/comet or use the "double action" fuel pump from the 60 with the vacuum assist. The driveshaft won't work with the C4 without changes to the length and the rear won't take the later universal size so a driveshaft needs to be modified from the later drivetrain or adapted from the original.
These issues and many lesser ones like oil and temp guage sensors and alternator mounts etc. add up to a barrel of fun. I'm having a great time but every thing I do is two steps forward, one step back.

You can see some of the work in progress on the 61 Comet -71 170 install:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v296/Powe ... 0PROGRESS/
http://photobucket.com/albums/v296/Powerband/

Have fun and keep your tie out of the fan - Powerband 8)
 
kukm66":27uilu0l said:
What is the problem with the C-4 bolting up to the 144? It will bolt directly to a 170.
That's a good question, and I was going to reiterate Dennis' comments until I remembered the 144 in my Falcon had a C4 hung on it when I brought it home. :shock:

Apparently, only the early C4s will bolt to the 144/170/200 while the later versions (post 70-something) must have had only the later bellhousing pattern. An early C4 should work on all three (mine does) although I have no clue why anyone would want one on a 144, talk about a slug. :roll:

The 200 is a bolt-in from a dimension standpoint, the 144/170/200 have identical external dimensions. Powerband's comment with regard to trans tunnel may very well be an issue as the 60 Falcon, and I presume Comet, supposedly had the smallest trans tunnel. My understanding is this was corrected sometime in 61 when the 2-spd auto became an options. A little massaginf of the tunnel should provide sufficient room.

Other than length, the original driveshaft will work with a C4, all it takes is a small/large cross u-joint (sorry I don't know the part #) to attach the C4 slip yoke to the original drivehsaft. I know, I've done it, and I have one on my 62 Falcon with the original small u-joint attached to the 7 1/4" rear axle. There was another post about the u-joint issues elsewhere on the forum.

As Dennis and others mentioned, the only real fitment "issues" will be the oil pan, oil pump pickup tube, trans mount, and water pump snout length. Simply moving those parts from the 144 will work, but I'd replace them with new. I do not know for certain if there is an aftermarket C4 tranny conversion mount for the 60 Falcon/Comet and you might have to make your own or modify an aftermarket part to fit. Look here for one source of aftermarket mounts. :arrow: However, it specifically states it will not work with the 60 - mid 61 Falcon/Comet.

You could easily replace the smog equipped exhaust manifold with one from a mid-60s 200 or the later 250, but you will probably have to modify the header pipe mounting flange. The early manifolds used a flat flange while the later (mid 62??) manifolds used a "donut".

I don't know if the accelerator linkage mounting bosses were retained on the late blocks, but if so, you should be able to use the stock linkage. If not, then converting a cable system would be the best way to go as Powerband indicated.

Upgrading to aftermarket gauges eliminates the need to finagle orginal sending units, especially if they only feed indicator lights. Since I'm not familiar with the Comet instrument panel, I don't know if you have real gauges or "idiot" lights. I prefer functional gauges that measure real values over the factory ones anyway.

The swap is not that hard, and it's mostly bolt in or out work you'll have to do. You have to decide what limits you are comfortable working within and go from there. 8)
 
As far as the tranny mounts in a '60 - I was wondering if the change to the later type happened all at once or different plants changed at different times. My '61 built in May '61 has the "new" style mount so I was able to use the 61- 65 conversion mount for the 3.03 tranny which has the same dimensions as the C4 . Here's a pic of the conversion mount
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/ ... 299web.jpg
As you can see in the picture, I solved the driveshaft interface problem with a C4/3.03 yoke I picked up on E-Bay that has the small universal (Spicer 5-105X) so I could use the original driveshaft .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/ ... 97_WEB.jpg
I searched in vain for the fabled small to large conversion universal but was not able to find it in any Spicer, Neapco, Rockford or any other universal joint reference books. I had two reputable parts guys looking too and they could not turn it up. A fellow FSP member gave me this a while back:

"I think the joint you are looking for is a Spicer 5-2140X. It has the small 2.77 size across one axis and the larger C-4 across the other."

This conversion joint changes from internal clips to external but had the larger joint on both axis. The small to large joint may still exist but I even searched using the dimensions rather than application and could not find it. I never thought the yoke I got on E-bay existed either so it may be out there somewhere....

A good reference for the different mounts can be found on the Falcon Enterprises site: mounts
 
PB - I edited your Falcon Enterprises link so it wouldn't stretch the window and force us to scroll right/left to read. You can do the same when posting long links by using this code:
name your link. i.e. "here" or "mounts"

I intentionally added a space between the "e" in "here" and the second bracket. Remove the space to make it work with your link and text. :wink: If you forget, just click on the BBCode in the options on the lower left of the window and scroll down to the section called Creating Links. Use the first example to do the same as above. 8)
 
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