1966 170ci engine swap for a 1978 200ci

[jonmelton]

Hey guys, I've got a 1966 170ci motor in my Bronco and I have been looking for a 200ci head to replace the old one. I have a blown head gasket as well as two broken bolt ears on the head. So, in my searching, I found a 1978 200ci motor and I am wondering if I should swap the whole thing.

I've done two crate engine swaps on my vehicles in the past, but I am wondering would it be worth it? Should I stick with my original plan and just take the head off the other motor? Is it worth it to swap the motors? How much do these two motors match? Will it even fit?

Thanks for the help

 

[MPGmustang]

Oh defenetly swap the engine, it will bolt right up to everything of your's, no mod and you get 30 extra cubes!!!!

the main benefit is deffenetly the cubes, and the head, but you wanted the head anyways so the cubs.

Hey Jon, where are you located? you can go into control panel and update your city area, there might be guy's near you that can help.

Richard

 

[jonmelton]

Nice! Thanks for the reply. I'm going to look at the engine on Saturday, hopefully it will be in good shape. On the '78 would I still need to put in hardened valve seats?

I updated my location, Nashville TN. Thinking I'll take the head over to Headworks of Nashville to let them get it running smooth.

 

[MPGmustang]

you won't need hardend seats as the 78 engines and later came with them cast into the head.

IMO just drop it in, no mods, and run with it. If you really wanted you could build it up a little like a cam and shave the head .030 for more CR but I wouldn't do much else for the simplicity sake.

things to look for on the engine:
Water ports, makes sure the inlets/outlets are not corroded, could mean trouble inside, take the water pump off to be certain.
casting codes of D8 on the block (behind starter) head (on the log) and exhaust (plain sight) (D8 indicates the decade 'D' is 1970 and 8 is the year so 1978)
I guess there is one mod, your exhaust might not fit, IIRC the 170 has a smaller outlet on the exhaust, vs the larger 78 outlet, I HIGHLY recomend to use the 78 then go to muffler shop and have them modify the exhaust to except the new exhaust. 2 reasons, One the 78 exhaust is 12yrs newer, Two it has the desirable 2inch outlet that everyone simply bolts on.

One last thing, the head won't accept your carb... okay that's two things... ClassicInlines has the adaptor your need, at least it bolts on...
http://classicinlines.com/proddetail.as ... %2D1VA%2DV

I can't think of anything else right now.

 

[jonmelton]

Whoa! Thanks Richard. That really is everything I need to know. If you think about anything else let me know. I found the engine for $100 pulled out of a Fairlane. The owner said it was running when he pulled it out. I'll snap some pics of the process.

 

[jonmelton]

I just talked to the guy again, turns out the engine has been sitting since 2005. He said the oil and fluids are still in it, anything else I should look for? Is that too long for this engine to sit?

 

[bubba22349]

He said the oil and fluids are still in it, anything else I should look for? Is that too long for this engine to sit?

If the engine was stored inside a dry area could be OK.

 

[MPGmustang]

I've seen engines sit for 40 years come to life...

First, take out spark plugs, then try to rotate engine, if yes then you're good to install and run. you can skip 2-3, go to 4...
second, get a bottle of marvel mystery oil, take the valve cover off and por it over everythinguse 1/3 bottle, take the spark plugs out and put 2-3 cap fulls in each cyl. let soak for 12 hrs then use the rest for antoher 13 hrs of soaking.
third, see if you can turn it over by hand, or wrench on Harmonic balancer, don't use a starter. all you need is it to be free and not seized, if it'sn not turing over easily let us know. there are other things you can do. once spining freely, install the engine, and prep for running
forth, change oil, add one large bottle of marvel mystery oil or 1 qt of ATF tranny fluid then top off with oil, either will clean the engine really good. if ATF don't drive it with it in there just run for 3 x30 mins @ 1500rpm. marvel you can run up to 500miles before you need to change it again. if you want you can use rotella break in oil with the marvel and drive it this helps save all surfaces in the engine.

IMO this should help you. it's a cautious approach to get it running again.

If it's seized more than a wrench and you have to take the head off to get it free'd up, i'd suggest getting it cleaned professionally, and do the deconstruction/construction myself. but I highly doubt it's that far gone.

 

[jonmelton]

Thanks MPGmustang, thats where I'll start. Before I bought it, I turned it by hand, so I know it's not seized. I did see some rust when I pulled the plugs. Not a lot, just a little starting. My plan is to take it slow and also get a DSII and a Weber DGV Carb or try to rebuild the carb. So it will probably be a while before it's in the engine and I'm cranking it, but I really look forward to that day.

 

[rbohm]

8) one thing to be aware of doing any engine swap is the oil pan. while the 170 and the 200 will interchange in every other respect, the oil pan used in the bronco may be different enough to cause problems with the swap. no real problem here though just use the oil pan and oil pump pick up from the 170 on the 200 as they swap directly.

 

[MPGmustang]

8) one thing to be aware of doing any engine swap is the oil pan. while the 170 and the 200 will interchange in every other respect, the oil pan used in the bronco may be different enough to cause problems with the swap. no real problem here though just use the oil pan and oil pump pick up from the 170 on the 200 as they swap directly.

that's right, forgot about that... but at least it's a bolt on...

 

[jonmelton]

Well, here it is.The '78 200ci. It didn't come with a distributer, so I just purchased a Duraspark II Ignition Kit from Classic Inlines (got the Performance handbook as well). This engine has AC and power steering, but I don't need that so I'll remove those. Probably keep the power steering for the future. I'll have to remove all the emissions stuff too. The other upgrades I'm planning are:

1. New belts, hoses, spark plugs
2. Carb - I've toyed with the idea of buying a Weber 32/36 DGV but may have to wait and just rebuild the one that is on the '78 now.
3. Headers - either buying Cliffords 6=8 Dual Shorty Headers, or buying a stock header. My 170ci header has a couple broken bolt ears and doesn't have a good seal.
4. Exhaust - upgrading the old one after the engine is in
5. Replacing the clutch and all the bearings that go with it. Thinking about the Centerforce II Clutch Kit, but don't really know what I should get.
6. Rear seal - someone said while I had the engine out, to just go ahead and replace it.

Anything else anyone can think of? Any advice? I've done a couple crate engine swaps, but those are easy. This one is going to take more time and fabricating. It might be a few months before I get it in, but I would rather do it right.

 

[thesameguy]

I would try and get it on a stand, hook up a starter, and do a dry/cold compression test just to be sure you've got a good motor. It'd suck spend money on upgrades, get it installed, and find out there's no compression. Assuming all is good there, I would still consider getting it installed and running before dropping any money on upgrades. Aside from bottom end and clutch stuff, nothing much is harder in the car than out of it.

 

[bmbm40]

My 66 had a 2" exhaust so your 200 manifold may connect easy. Some might suggest a new timing chain pre 69 part number I think its in the handbook. I have a Centerforce on my 250 and like it a lot but the stock clutch it is probably strong enough for a stock or semi stock 200. The stock carb worked great on my 200 for as long as I drove it, never rebuilt it. Keep any power steering stuff it is one of my favorite upgrades. Good luck.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Jon:

And welcome to The Forum. Lots of help here. First let me clear up a few points of information- Both the '66 and '78 exhaust manifolds have 2" outlets with a Donut type seal. The '78 manifold is stronger and less prone to cracking than the '66. The only down side to the '78 are the extra bungs and taps used to make the engine politically correct for its time. The taps can easily be sealed off.

The OEM cam timing gear on all 200s is the same. The early gears and chain only apply to 250 engines. Not 200s, but, as you assess this core, if you find excessive timing chain slop and you decide to freshen it, I'd suggest one of CIs double roller sets. You'll never, ever have another worry about it.

You've gotten alot of good advice here already. Let me suggest that you buy a shop manual for a '78 vehicle so you can get the best info for your 200. Knowing what you've got is always the best place to start.

Since you got the carb with the engine, which should be a Carter YF, I'd recommend that you start your build with it. Was the Fairlane this engine came from a manual or auto trans? In either case you'll need to adapt for different carb linkage orientation. Adapting a pedal and cable from a Maverick or Comet is a good move. The valve cover on the '78 engine already has the bracket on it for the new throttle orientation and linkage. The Carter YF was used on 170 engines from '68, 200s after 1970. It was also upsized and used on 300 pickup engines, So you have upgrade possibilities with little or no adapting.

One caution on an engine that has been sitting is to remove and thoroughly inspect and clean the rocker arms, pushrods and shaft. Oil to the rocker arms comes up through the head and back stauncheon and down the shaft to each rocker. The front rockers are the last to get oil on a start up. Any built up crude or sludge inside the shaft or rockers will impede that flow. Disassembling and cleaning is cheap insurance.

Again, welcome and keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David

 

[jonmelton]

Alright, it's been a little bit since I started this post, and haven't done any work... until now. My plan is to swap the engines over the Thanksgiving break. Should be easy, but I'm giving myself plenty of time and I'll try and take pictures. I haven't had the $$ to buy many extras so I'm hoping that everything is still good on the engine. Engine rotates and looks good other then some old oil on the block.

I do need to buy a few things. Any recommendations?
1. Timing belt/chain - was removed on new engine by PO
2. Clutch - everyone says replace this because you have it already out

My plan is:
-Let engine soak in Marvel Mystery Oil
-Pull old engine and remove oil pan
-Swap oil pans and transmission/clutch
-install timing belt and DUI (PO removed old on, so I bought a new one)
-install engine, new belts and spark plugs

Obviously it wont be that simple, but thats my game plan.

 

[bmbm40]

It may be a bit of a search for the clutch, my friend wanted to replace his 200 clutch and could not find one local in stock. Someone on here should know a good source. If you got a DSII you will need the module. Good luck with this I had a 200 for years in my Bronco, it was a great motor.

 

[chad]

the carb with the engine, which should be a Carter YF

there's gunna B hood clearance issues (that seems to B a 6 inch tall carb?).

5 mods (1 or none could B required): Mavric 6 cyl engine towers slotted - to drop the motor down can help, 1 inch BL (this vehicle's looks & increased tire sz R screamin for that anyway), or - heaven forbid - a hood scoop may B required. The "pan thing" suggested above. A "low rise" carb. These R certain for a 250 swap due to the increased deck hight. Mine had a 170 car motor that disallows air cleaner use, the mounting peg/screw has dented into the hood it's so tight.
U may wish the direct mount carb which machines the log for placement. Certainly not an adapter that increases the hight (unless using other mods above). So no one really knows - each person I've talked to has different answers. I would NOT direct mount the engine (remove the motor mounts -rubber, from the towers). I was surprised, my 2 inch suspension lift helped as well.

Others here have done the 200 swap (bmbm40 - or wuz yours original? or Explorer - he has a whole build thread here or on CB). They may give U more info specific to this mod...

 

[jonmelton]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Body lift would be nice. Or I can just add to the many dents and dings in the hood.

Thanks chad, good info

 

[bmbm40]

I swapped the 170 for a 200 in my Bronco before I had a body lift and there was no problem. Your new 200 probably has an Autolite carb. The 200 and 170 have the same exterior dimensions, just drop it in.
It's the 250 with the carter that is tight. But I would recommend the 1"bl anyway, pretty much most Broncos need new rubber body mounts as the old ones get mashed down over the years so if you do that just do the 1" bl at the same time. It looks good and you can run a slightly larger tire if you are uncut.