200 burning oil, please help

[rmoe88]

Hey guys and gals, hows everyone tonight? I need some help with my car, its been fouling out plugs.

First a little info: i had the head rebuilt in 07 and the bottom end rebuild in 08. Maybe 10k miles on it since then though. Ever since a little after the rebuild the falcon has burnt about a 1/2 quart every 3000 miles. I always thought that the oil was being burned in such small amounts that the plugs were not being effected because i would always pull the #1 plug and it always looked great (should have checked them all i realize now.) A month ago i went on a little road trip with a friend and developed a misfire in one cylinder an hour out. We turned around and made it home. I decided to pull the plugs and see if anything was out of the ordinary and why i lost a cylinder. And i found the #4 plug like this. This is the plug that stopped working. On a side note, the cheap autolite plugs rock! The misfire was not constant, so this plug was sparking still, just not every time.

Its not one cylinder that is burning oil though... #1 cylinder is perfect, #2 burns just a little oil and then it gets worse and worse the farther back you go, except #4 is the worst. What would cause almost all the cylinders to start burning oil and not just one?

I dont know if its rings or valve seals yet. Tomorrow im going to do a leak down test (thats what its called?) to see if its the rings. Is there a better way to see where the oil is leaking from? What else can i do? Also, is there anywhere else oil can get in from, or does it have to be either rings or valve seals?

Thanks everyone.

 

[fordconvert]

There is a lot of this going around lately. If I have time later today I was going to check mine since I have a few hundred miles on the new plugs. Mine was just about like yours with the back ones being pretty nasty while the fronts looked really good. I did not do my bottom end, only top. Same plan as you leakdown compression test to see if those are different than the 'good' ones.

 

[rbohm]

8) the picture is a bit hard to use to read the plug, if the deposits are wet looking, then you are getting oil into the combustion chamber. you might have a bad valve seal if this is the case.

if on the other hand they are dry and sooty looking, then those cylinders are running rich. this is one of the problems with the log head. the center cylinders run rich and the outer ones run lean.

 

[Lazy JW]

.... Ever since a little after the rebuild the falcon has burnt about a 1/2 quart every 3000 miles.....

One quart of oil burning in 6000 miles will not do what that photo shows. A vintage Ford six that only uses a quart in 6000 miles is actually a very good running engine; I'm thinking excessive fuel.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone, i am having a little account trouble but this is moe$ still.

fordconvert, sorry to hear your in the same boat as me, please tell me what you find out.

rbohm, ya the picture is from my cell phone. The deposits were extremely wet looking. When i first pulled it out i though i had sludge on the plug, but when i tried to wipe it off it turned out to be rock hard. I had to chip it off.

Lazy JW, maybe its a little more than 1 quart in 6000 miles, but the plugs have been in for multiple oil changes. Also i forgot to say this but the reason i believe it is oil is that whenever i pull the plugs now (except #1 and kinda #2) i can wipe oil from around the seat of the plug, always...



I just finished a leakdown test on #1 and #4 cylinders, i will finish doing the rest in a bit. My leakdown tester is cheap, so i dont really believe any single number it gives me but i do believe the difference between cylinders. #1 was in the green at a little below 20%. #4 was deep in the yellow at around 45-50%. These are with a completely cold engine, each cylinder tested at tdc.

How do i determine where the leak is coming from? I listened in the tail pipe and couldnt tell if i could hear a leak. I cant hear anything from the intake hole either.

Edit: correct me if im wrong, but if oil is leaking past the valve seals into the intake runner and then into the engine as normal air would, a leakdown test would not show excessive leaking in that cylinder right? If this is true, then i must have poor piston ring seal? Are there any other places oil can get into the cylinder?

 

[rbohm]

8) take a rag or piece of paper and tape it over the end of the tailpipe so that if air moves through there it will move. do this also at the carb and at the oil fill port. then run your leak down test. if the paper/rag moves at one of the openings, you have found where the problem is. exhaust means bad exhaust valve, etc. you could also have a bad head gasket as well. and yes bad valve seals wont affect a compression or leak down check. i would say that you probably have a bad head gasket.

 

[Anonymous]

rbohm, Thanks, thats a great idea, i will re run the test with paper taped to all the ports. Quick question, how can oil get into the cylinder with a bad head gasket? Where would it come from?

 

[Lazy JW]

......

Lazy JW, maybe its a little more than 1 quart in 6000 miles.....

Even double that to a quart in 3000 miles, still not a problem. I've driven too many bona fide oil burners in my misspent life; it really isn't an issue until it burns a quart in less than 500 miles. Mama's 1998 Isuzu Trooper is an oil burner from the factory (coulda had it fixed under warranty had I known about the factory defect sooner) but anyway it burns a quart of oil in 800-1000 miles, has done so since new and it has 128K on the clock now. This engine has NEVER even had the spark plugs removed, and it still runs well, also gets the same mileage as it ever did. It burns oil because of a flawed piston design that has inadequate drainback holes, so it is definitely burning the oil in the cylinders.
Joe

 

[rbohm]

rbohm, Thanks, thats a great idea, i will re run the test with paper taped to all the ports. Quick question, how can oil get into the cylinder with a bad head gasket? Where would it come from?

remember that on one side of the engine, the head gasket goes into the pushrod area. you get a fair most of oil in that area, and if the head gasket leaks into that area, when the piston comes down in the intake stroke it will draw a vacuum in that area, bringing some of that oil mist with it.

 

[69.5Mav]

During the 70's I owned a '61 chevy with an inline 6 235cid. Being a poor student I had no money to fix it. It burned a quart of oil every 50 yes I did say 50 miles. I used to drive back and forth between Chicago and Champaign/Urbana IL at 75 mph, it would go faster but I would not. It would take 3 quart to bring it up to full at each end, I used top quality havalin 10-40W oil. Never fouled a plug, I used Fire Injectors from JC Whitney. Plugs lasted forever. Wish I could still buy them today.

I use wet and dry compression tests to diagnose oil burning problems. If you add a teaspon of oil to a low readind cylinder and the reading jumpes up to normal then its rings if not then look at the valve train.

 

[Lazy JW]

..... Never fouled a plug, I used Fire Injectors from JC Whitney. Plugs lasted forever. Wish I could still buy them today......

If you can find plugs about 4 heat ranges hotter you'll be close. They used to sell some "anti-fouling" adapters that are really just bushings you put in under the plugs, they effectively make the plug run hotter as well.

The whole point to "heat range" in spark plugs is we want the plug to run hot enough to burn off the deposits, but not so hot that it glows incandescent and provides an ignition source ahead of the spark. Basically, the hotter the better until it's too hot. Clear as mud, eh?

An engine with hot enough plugs won't foul plugs until the oil consumption gets really excessive; I've personally driven cars that burned more than a quart per 100 miles that gave no trouble. I've also had engines that wouldn't make it to town without fouling a plug or three Those visibly smoked cruising down the road.
Joe

 

[colocounty4]

Hi!

My engine is currently burning 1 quart every 250 miles and fouling plugs pretty quite frequently. I just use the Autolite 46s. Does anyone have a specific recommondation for a different plug with a higher heat range that I could try

 

[rbohm]

8) i will have to check later, but i think my uncle put autolite 82's in my falcon years ago to prevent oil fouling. you might compare the 82's to the 46's in an auto parts store to see if they would fit.

 

[69.5Mav]

The Fire Injectors had a unique tip design. Instead of a single electrode it had 6, can you say split fire. Each electrod spanded an arc of almost 60 degrees. So you did not have to gap them ever.

 

[Lazy JW]

The Fire Injectors had a unique tip design. Instead of a single electrode it had 6, can you say split fire. Each electrod spanded an arc of almost 60 degrees. So you did not have to gap them ever.

It would take roughly six times as long to erode the gaps so it did seem like they lasted forever. That isn't what kept them from fouling though. Running hot enough to burn off the deposits is what did that.

Multiple gap plugs only fire to ONE electrode at a time, whichever one happens to be the lowest resistance at that particular instant in time. Every time a plug fires, it erodes a tiny amount of material away, which eventually makes the gap wider (and harder to jump). Then the spark will take the next easiest path, which may be on an adjacent electrode, and may be just a different spot on the same electrode.

Multiple gap plugs were commonly used in the old days on aircraft and industrial engines that tended to erode plugs rather rapidly, partly due to their steady-state operation and partly due to inferior materials that eroded rapidly.
Joe

 

[MPGmustang]

rmoe88: i'm having the same problem... so i'm trying the same stuff also... my #4 was wet and hard with absolutely no gap, and all plugs have oil on them...

so, for a valve leak test i put paper over exhaust and intake to see if it's valves (do i rotate the engine? or use a pump of some sort when it's at tdc on that cyl?)
for the compression test i run the engine to temp and check the compression twice (first dry then second with 1tbsp-ish oil) to see if the rings are bad, if the compression goes up with the oil those rings are bad?

Thanks,
Richard

 

[rbohm]

rmoe88: i'm having the same problem... so i'm trying the same stuff also... my #4 was wet and hard with absolutely no gap, and all plugs have oil on them...

so, for a valve leak test i put paper over exhaust and intake to see if it's valves (do i rotate the engine? or use a pump of some sort when it's at tdc on that cyl?)
for the compression test i run the engine to temp and check the compression twice (first dry then second with 1tbsp-ish oil) to see if the rings are bad, if the compression goes up with the oil those rings are bad?

Thanks,
Richard

8) to do a cylinder leak down test, the quick and dirty version as it were, you put a rag or a piece of paper over a few openings, the exhaust pipe, the carburetor, and the oil fill port. you then bring each cylinder to top dead center on the compression stroke, and pump air into the cylinder and see which piece of paper or rag moves. if the one over the carb moves, then you have an intake valve leak.

as for the compression check, you got it right.

 

[MPGmustang]

Thanks rbohm, now i have to find a pump that's quiet enough...

Richard

 

[rbohm]

8) if you have an air compressor that will do nicely. or you can use an air tank that you would normally use to add air to your tires, you might have to fill it a few times.