200 with SBF bell housing pattern??

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Just ran across, what I believe to be a 200 with the small block ford bell housing pattern on it. It's missing the head, flex plate or flywheel, and the harmonic balancer. It does have the duraspark distributor.

Wondering if it would be worth it to piece it together and run an aod behind it in my 64 ranchero. I've got an aod, along with my 170 that I could swap parts, if they're interchangeable.

Anyone have any info/advice on this motor or what specs go to it? It has the dual hump(front and rear) oil pan.

Thanks, Chris
 
It'll either be an E0BB block or a 250. What's the casting code near the ignition coil?
 
I'll have to check the code tomorrow. So, could there be 200 blocks with sbf bell patterns?
 
It's a partial small block (Windsor) Ford bolt pattern. You will need to drill two holes near the top of the bell housing inorder to use all four bolts. The "big bell" 200 still only uses 4 engine to trans bolts.

I happen to have such a 200 in my '83 Fairmont. It will be evicted for a V8 but I plan on using it as a second engine for my '65 Mustang.

Dean T
 
What kind of tranny is behing the big bell 200? Do you know the balance/# of teeth on flex plate?
 
The flexplate is 164 teeth, but has a 200 / 3.3 liter specific 2.75" centre bolt pattern, and neutral balance. The thing is it looks just like a 164 tooth 300/4.9 Big Six flexplate, but they have a 3" centre bolt pattern.

The Big Bell flexplates are plentiful, and available second hand on just about any automatic 1981 to 1984 I6 Fox car. 81-82 Cougars, some 81-82 Thunderbirds, Fairmonts, Fox Capri, 81-83 Fox Mustang. I've repeatedly asked for a new source, but no-one knows.


The roll out of big bell blocks was strange, as there were still high mount starter Fox body Ford 3.3's in various Fox body cars right up to 1981. You often find either the French based C3 Bordeux 3-speed or the US C4 bheind high mount starter 3.3's, or the C5 on some 1980 and 1981 variants, so you gotta be specific when you raid the lost parts.

The only auto trans for the Big Bell was the venerable C5, bascially a truck C4 with better internals and a lock-up clutch, plus a few quirks that have to be sorted out. One guy here runs one in his Comete, and its great.

The Big bell is a six bolt block. A six bolt AOD is a straight bolt up, but you just have to pilot drill the whole AOD box, as the bellhousing doesn't come off. Find special cap screws to hold the top two bolts down to the I6 block. The AOD case is super thick, and you just follow the Big Bell transmission swap in the Tech Pages.


The stall speed is 1650 rpm for the stock AOD as measured with a 215 lb-ft 5.0 V8. Whack it on a 3.3 with 165 lb-ft , and the stall speed would be even lower than that, not good for performance, way too tight. The 5.0 HO for 1983, and the SC 3800, ran a 2350 rpm stall converter, and its a good idea to use that. In stock form, AOD's are a real pudding with known weakness in the input shaft behind V8's. Little concern behind an I6. However, there are a range of better input shafts, 5.0HO /SC 3800 servo pistons, and for 165 pounds, its potentially the strongest for the box money anywhere on earth, and its efficient lock-up sequence makes up for the weight of the internals.

Lastly, the throttle valve must follow the 1984 4.9 1-bbl truck system, or at least work like it. It's the most simple set-up around, but if its not hooked up, it will self destruct the transmission in short order.
 
Right on; thanks so much! This is the info I wanted!

I called some local auto shops and they can order me a new flexplate for an 82 thunderbird 200/3.3 for U.S.$27 including tax.

Have some more ?'s:

Is/are a head from a 60's 170/200 a bolt on fit along with rocker shaft and adjustable rockers? How about distributor and harmonic balancer/pulley?

So, it would be possible to fit an aod to one of these motors for economy reasons, not for performance, correct?

Thanks, Chris
 
The heads are fully interchangeable. The later heads are much better, though; bigger valves, hardened exhaust seats, more intake volume.

The rocker shafts and rockers/pushrods are also mix-and-match. So are the rest of the parts.
 
Wallaka, when/what years did the heads go to hardened exhaust seats and bigger valves?

So, you're saying the 60's harmonic balancer/pulley assembly and distributor will bolt right on the 80's 200 and engine balance is the same on all year 200's?

Thanks, Chris
 
The hardened valve seats came into play around '77 or so. Valve size increased steadily through the years. In '65 the valves increased to 1.649" intake and 1.38" exhaust. In '77, the intake valve grew to 1.75".

The 200/250 heads are the same part past 1969. All of the engines are naturally zero balanced, and the pulleys all interchange. HOWEVER, there is a long and short water pump, and the pulleys must match the water pump. The short early pumps were made until 1977. The damper for these has three bolts and is 5 7/8" in diamater. The later pulleys have four bolts and 6 1/8" diameter.
 
Uh oh, I think my engine is missing two bolts. It only has 4 bolts holding the C5 to the block. I not surprised, seeing how the rest of the car has been Mickey Moused by previous owners...

A T-5 would be an easy install on this engine, drill the holes in a T-5 V8 (SBF Windsor) bell. get a neutral balanced 157 tooth flywheel and have it redrilled for the 200 I6 crank bolt pattern.

Sure beats trying to find the now elusive 136 tooth flywheel with the 9" clutch and finding an appropriate bellhousing and adapter plate.

Dean T
 
xecute and wallaka; thanks for the info! You guys are on top of it!

I've got my 170/c4 in her now, but picked up 1 1/2 extra 200's and an aod for a winter project that will hopefully gain me some extra mpg.
 
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