250 Cross flow Stroker kit

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I was wondering if anyone has heard of a stroker kit for a 250 cross flow????? i have a mildly work 250 and want some big horse power without adding 2 extra cylinders
 
For the cost, there is no benefit in doing a stroker 250. But heres how to do it.

Excuse the mix of metric and imperial. Most rods are measured in inches because the Americans are the only people who give a damn.

The physical limit for stroking a 250 would be a 4.125" stroke, which, with a 60 thou over bore, could make 272 cid, or 4456 cc's. This is a 9% increase, roughly equal to going from a 245 to a 265 in a Valiant Hemi.

The only way this sort of stroker can be done is by finding a Honda or Mitsubishi style con-rod that has a ~48 mm, or 1.9" journal. You then offset grind the crank journals by making them smaller, and effectively move the throw of the rod out 2.7 mm, for a 5.5 mm stroke increase.

There are six inch, 2.0" journal Chevy rods, but the stroke would be limited. 266 cubes with +60 thou pistons. Some of the 4G52 Astron rods are good prospects (2.048" or 52 mm journal), but the stroke increase is even less. 263 cubes.

There is also the prospect, at huge expense, of using the latest GM4200 crank in the Ford 250 block. But that would be a massive under taking. It has a stoke of around ~4.06 inches or so, and is based on the same centres as the Ford.

Either option places the cam very,very close to the rods. The base of the cylinder bores would have to be shaved, and the rods would have to have the bolts ground to avoid doing a kamakazie job on anything that is in the way.

After investing a few thousand grand in the offset grind of the crank, a thousand in bolts and con-rods, you end up with a weaker crank which needs some specialised work on the fillet radius to ensure it can be strentghened enough for hi-rpm work. Then you need short deck pistons so the longer rod and stroke can mix it inside the block.

You may get a 6.38" rod from somewhere, and six custom Wiesco pistons with a 1.00" deck register to maintain a fair rod to stroke ratio, in order to stop side loading the bores. This is a wooping 0.600 inches shallower than the stock piston, and risking the integrity of the rings.

The real issue is that the 250 block is an engine stroked and bored within an inch of it's life. It started off as a 2.365 liter engin of 144.3 cubes, and became 73% bigger with virtually no major block mods aside from raising the deck of the block and increasing the main bearing numbers and sizes.

If someone minted a siamesed bore version of the 250, using a 3.775 to 3.835" bore, with a great steel crank of 4.125" stroke, there is a 277 to 286 cube engine in there.Your attention should be drawn to the bigger 300 US Bronco/F-series truck six. With an offset grind, there is a 330 cube engine there, with torque to move a mountain, and a bunch of brilliant gearboxes to match.

Things like 265 Hemis can be bored ,with some risk, to 282 cid. The 250 Chev L6 can be taken out to 292 cubes, or even 312 cubes with minor risk.

All have more space between the bores than the 144 to 250 Fords, the 300 and 250/292 have more block height, and all have more potential for block stability under load than the 250.
 
ok...

xecute....

a while ago i was asking same thing for my ef motor in the ea turbo

i am interested in doing the gm crank option....

i am happy to run a set of cutom rods/pistons so i was thinking...

how bout i run a set of custom 6.5 inch rods (h or i beam ones) a set of mini pistons 40 thou oversize with some good strong moly rings (total seal gapless ones and one of those gm4200 cranks?? all housed in an au block.

i wanna get up to round 4.5 lt or so maybe even more if i can... :wink: :lol: what do you think.

4.5 lt would be great to help spool a turbonetics t88 exhaust housing ans wheel on a t72 core and t88 compressor housing and wheel i have laying round here.

any help you can give me would be much appreceiated.

cheers.joe.
 
The bores are too close, and the deck is too low. That's the bad news.

The good news is that JP may make a timing chain set that will allow you to raise the deck back to OHV height of ~9.48, rather than the 9.22 it is now. Ie, shove a steel plate on the block, Merv Waggot Grey Holden Twin Cam-style, form 1960. Go for 3.68 X 4.20" bore x stroke, and get 4392 cc, no more than 268 cubes, an 11.5% increase on the original 3939 cc 240 cuber.

That'll give you more room for longer rods. The cast crank has more room in a OHC block, 'cause there aint no cam to foul things. I'd like to see a steel crank there, but it may be possible to weld up the crank to a 4.2 inch stroke using some Astron rods. I get real worried about how it would hang together. The FrenchTown Flyer has a 300, and has mates that have used the crank with small journal offsets grinds with well made fillet radii, going up in capacity in some cases. But they were all steel cranks, I think.

Cost of a custom steel billet crank is high. Perhaps there is an EN-grade Jag 4.2 crank billet just sitting around, ready for a 4.173" (106 mm) stroke. Mega -bucks, but it won't break! Just have a competent machinist copy the later 12 counterweight EL crank into a EA format with 52 mm journals, and Astron rods. There might be some-one who can get 1" deck pistons, and if the Chrysler mob can chance a 120 thou overbore on a 225 or 265 to get some big cubes, then surely using a forged 1.00" +60 or 80 thou custom piston is the answer. Up to 3.68" in +67 form. Then the big fat 2.6 Sigma/Magna rod could be bored out from its 0.866 pin to 0.912, or left at 0.866.

BMW has some wicked Mahale forged pistons. But you can't pack the block up more than the distance from the top of the ring land to the top of the piston.

Alloy Dave may be of some help, his world wide ACL tentacles are well connected. Typical cocky Kiwi. :roll:
 
Why stroke it? Do you want more torque - less revs?

Why not keep the standard stroke and use a blower or turbo?

Considering the price and complexity of the stroking, why would you bother?

Am I missing something?

George
 
hello sick tc ,yes ACL auzzie make a piston to suit the stroker application
in the 250 .They have a piston (6mkry9412) that you use with the 200 3.3 conrods (159.33mm rod vs the 250ci rod 149.25mm).Theres a good weight saving using this piston as you can go from 600grams to 480grams (less rings).The long rods reduce the angularity ,this lowers bore loading which reduces friction and improves engine responce.using this piston you can expect a comp ratio of 10.0:1 @77cc.
dont exceed 10.0:1 comp ratio......

cheers dave
:beer:
 
Didn't Pro-Stroke used to offer a kit? 260-something cubes; not a lot.

I'll leave The Stroke to Billy Squier. :P
 
Strokin'. Stroke it to the east, stroke it to the west...is that they dude whos music you like best?

We all want a GM 4200 crank. Can someone help out?
 
george..

i have alreay done the turbo thing.

i have a spare au block sitting on a engine stand and i want to do a stroker so i can then get the turbo to spool quicker.

xecute-

agh!!! fudge it!!! i think i'll just use a 75hp shot of gas at the drags instead to help spool.

cheers.joe.

keep me posted tho if you do hear of sumpthing to do to get the cappacity up. remember i dont mind having to get cutom rods and pistons.

cheers.joe.
 
If you increased the stroke of a 250 half an inch and took half an inch of the already short rods I wonder if it would drive ok. Result= massive power from 100 to 1500 rpm (just kidding). Hey it may work even better than a 250, so lets do it anyway.
Cheers
 
If you talk to the diesel mechanics, it lookes like 1.6 to 1.9:1 rod ratio is the masters voice.

We talk about 235 Stroker Holdens being a good tractor engine, but even tractors don't use 1.42:1 stroke to rod ratios like those freeks did.

Drag engines are the exception. They often ride in with ratios like this.

So if you are brave, just use stock line ACL pistons oversized, and 5.85 Chevy 2.0" journal rods, and you may get a 4.24" custom crank in there with 271 cubes in an OHC . Nasty, nasty rod ratio.

Only cost is the crank.

For the 250, the limiter is the cam hittinh the crank. A set of 300 Big Block Six rods, and the same ACL pistons at 60 though, and a custom crank. Perhaps there is room, and perhaps you'll get 4.125" inch stroke with those fat rods without venting the block. Same 272 size, stock stroke to rod length ratio.

Which ever way, you'd be needing a custom crank.

Over these parts, people cast cranks in metalurgist lab tweeked SGI cast iron and have good sucess.
 
Would a dummy-cam free BA block be a better candidate for a stroker?
 
Sure would Disco'.

The deal is what is the swept radius with crank ground and the rods your planing to use. What the old boys did on there 221 Ford cranked 186 Holden Strokers was they just added plastercine to the stock crank, and trailered different combos untill the got one that wouldn't take out the pan rail or water galleries. There was no problem with grinding the rails or cam or rods or bottom of the cylinders as long as you didn't create an elaborate sprinkler system on the way...


Here what I'd like you to do. Grab the block, turn it upside down and line it cling wrap and with six MDF bulkheads (12 boards) which will stop concrete dropping out. Then fill it with plaster of paris or cement grout.

Wait for it to cure, and then number each one 1-6 and have them conrete cut with a tungstan carbide blade. Then we scan the sections into a scanner and then plot der monsta strocker.

Realistcally, you've gotta have a full mock-up with every thing, and to sacrifice a new block in the cause of science. :twisted:

I recon you and GM destroya are the best bets.

Still trying to get used to not waking the horse before cranking the old bird up in the morning, and now where working on cammers. Too modern for this Luddite!
 
hey xecute;


i have an old spare ea ohc block laying round here.

what if i make up dummy cranks/rods/pistons outa pvc pipe and mdf (i manage a laser profiling workshop so i can cut crank counter weights and rods outa mdf).

could be very cheap and shouldnt do pernament damage to the block.
(i need the block so i can build a 325kw n/a engine when i finish the turbo build up lol)

i'll have a play when i get some spare time :lol: :D (tho i can tell this is gonna end up costing me heaps!!!!! lol aw well moneys no good to you inless ur having fun i spose!!.

cheers.joe.
 
aw well moneys no good to you inless ur having fun i spose!!.
.

Totally agree. There are those that save, and never have enough, and those that spend, and never seam to lack!

I know that you've got to do some shaving of the block's crankcase area for any stroker, or Ford would have built the Ford OHC as a 4.1 with a 3.9 bore and longer stroke crank. :wink:

The only option is to build a dummy offset ground crank, and use the rod you are intending. A set of 2.8 Jag rods may be the go.

It's a little like the Aussie Challange boat and New Zealands yachts of late. They broke up in races. I think you've got to literally push the envelope.

The Slant Six guys in the US are stroking old 225 Slants to 254 cubes. With forged steel cranks, but just four bearings. :hmmm:

Heck, just offset grind to 4.2", and then use what ever rod you can. How about a set of AU ( 6.06")rods, a 175 thou plate to raise the deck of the engine enough to get a cheap enough piston (ACL race again). Then if you break a crank, you can still grind up a stroker engine with a minimum of cost.

This 3.68 X 4.20" bore x stroke, 4392 cc, 268 cube device is growing on me, even if the cam has been placed in the wrong part of the engine...
 
ok well....

i get the spare crank out sometime soon and i'll go get the thing offset ground to the 4.2 stroke (i'll see if i can go more :wink: :twisted: )

and as for the rods???? i dunno may have to go customs.

is there something out there that will handle the planned 800 odd horsepower (maybe a set of skyline or supra rods??)- hey i've already got 740hp so if i dont get an extra 60hp i'll be pissed!!!.

i think if i get the journal size of the planned rods then i'll get the crank offset ground to suit.

then theres the issue of pistons which i think will have to go custom reguardless......

but i love my acl race series (wonder if acl is keen to help out??? lmao)

and i think the block will have to be bored 60 thou as well just for good mesure

so in the end...... offset grind the crank/6.5 inch rods/custom mini-height pistons/block bored 60 thou....... i may have to run a deck spacer (what material do i use i am guessing stainless steel and have the block o-ringed as well as the head)


cheers.joe.
 
I believe the unsuccessfull decompression plates they used to use in SL/T 3300 Toranas and early Falcon crossflows were just steel. I'd use mild steel, arildite the base of the plate, and torque it with 175 thou longer head studs. And use fire rings or wills rings on the top pf the plate, with the stock kind of head. Copper gaskets are not for streeters, but it's easier than cleaning up a composite gasket which won't have enough space for the over-bored piston size.

One guy used to campaign a Bow Tie 350 cube Ch**y power boat engined Mk 1 Capri in the late 80's. The power boat regs said no pop-top pistons, so the previous engine owner just decked the block 125 thou. What the new owner did was just add 125 thou copper gaskets. Simple solution. This would be an option. I don't think dual O-ring is the idea, but a cemsetted copper gasket, CNC or lazer cut, and O-rngs at the top would be okay butting into cuts in the alloy head.

If some one can build you 0.875 to 1" compression height pistons, then you may get away with no spacer. The rods can't be taller than 6.12" with a 4.2" stroke and one inch pistons.

If you have 6.5" rods, 4.2" stroke, and 0.875 compression height pistons then how are you going to prevent the ring lands hitting a spacer plate or copper gasket?

Then you'd have to sleave the block. Sounds easy when I say it, eh?

Wow. Would it kick some a$$ though!
 
Reply for enquiry regarding a stroker kit.
Well I have strugled keeping my Bored/Stroked Stage 4 Cross Flow
together for the last 3 years (been costly, would not recomend it)
however I finaly have it sorted!!!!!
To start, its now stroked to 280, and it consists of an aray of strong parts (I say this cau's I do like to give it a hard time, love to be sideways) here we go:
Hardend crank, performance harmonic ballancer (good for 8000rpm) nissian rods, high tensile bolts, 60thou over toyota pistions,
10:1 compression, Stage 4 CamTec cam, ported & polished head oversize inlet & exhaust valves, heavy duty springs to suit cam. Still running slightly modified (but STOCK) rods & rockers. Induction is currently a redline manifold with a 4 barrel 460 holly bolted to it. A set of pace maker extractors & a 2 & a half inch free flowing exhaust, and last of all
a PRO COMP dizzy & ignition with a standard 12v coil. (revs like thers no tomorow)
Injection, Roller rockers, and a turbo are part of a new project. :wink:
 
:D So its a ohv cross-flow running L20 or Z20 con-rods from a 4-cyl Nissan 200B/Bluebird?

How much room for the camshaft?

Man, I'm impressed!

Is it on a diet of 2T , Lexus or Landcruiser pistons? Spill the beans, we all want to copy you and destroy GM V8's. :twisted:

I'm really interested too!
 
The rods I believe are the L20
the pistons are Tarago, as for the clearance,
I'm not sure of the spec's, but obviously enough (diden't build the motor too busy making $$ to pay for it) I have had lots of problems up until now,
Never run a high volume oil pump, striped my share of dizzy drive gears.
Previously I was running VP V6 commodore pistons @120 thou oversize
which left nothing in the cylinder skirt, broken bolts and more....
But the thing is it's sorted now!
Can't wait to inject & add heavy induction (turbo)


Anyone Know more about the (BROCKBUSTER)
268kw Twin turbo 4WD XF
brought out in 87 by AAT in Melbourne?
 
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