300 with gm ls3 head

[CNC-Dude]

Another option is an aluminum head cast specific for the 300 engine. I currently manufacture several aluminum race heads for the Chevy inline 4 and 6 cylinder engines. The 6 cylinder head patterns I have can be easily modified to become a Ford head with only changing a few components of the patterns and cores, since they are already very close to the same size dimensionally as the Ford 300.

 

[Firepower354]

Another option is an aluminum head cast specific for the 300 engine. I currently manufacture several aluminum race heads for the Chevy inline 4 and 6 cylinder engines. The 6 cylinder head patterns I have can be easily modified to become a Ford head with only changing a few components of the patterns and cores, since they are already very close to the same size dimensionally as the Ford 300.

Do it!

 

[CNC-Dude]

Im sure Mike at CI wouldn't be too happy if I did. He's been working on his Big 6 aluminum head project for 5-6 years. If I threw mine out there in a month or so, it would render his efforts up to this point meaningless and probably make his investments up too now a washout. But having said that, it has been 5-6 years and no head yet, so it might not really be that much of a priority for him any longer. We'll see.....

 

[Firepower354]

Haaa. Understood. Your heads look great. Are they an evolution of Sissell's, or just to the eye of a novice?
For a Ford, wouldn't pulling the core boxes .040-.120-.200 from center cause troubles?

 

[CNC-Dude]

Well, both Sissell's head and mine were originally developed by the same designer, Frank Duggan of Duggan cylinder head fame in Oz. From there, our heads have each developed and progressed with technology and the needs of the racer. Moving the bore centers is one thing that will need to be altered with my patterns, actually I would just make another subplate for a Ford specific head, along with a few other tweaks, but relatively easy to do with my 3D solid modeling software and CAD/CAM programming I have available. Still some work and designing involved, but with about 90% of the rest of the patterns being ready for action, it wouldn't be very hard or costly to do. Plus I own an aluminum foundry now, so I can do it all from concept to finished part in hand all in-house, so very little out of pocket expense going out the door for prototyping a new product.

 

[Soldmy66]

Well, both Sissell's head and mine were originally developed by the same designer, Frank Duggan of Duggan cylinder head fame in Oz. From there, our heads have each developed and progressed with technology and the needs of the racer. Moving the bore centers is one thing that will need to be altered with my patterns, actually I would just make another subplate for a Ford specific head, along with a few other tweaks, but relatively easy to do with my 3D solid modeling software and CAD/CAM programming I have available. Still some work and designing involved, but with about 90% of the rest of the patterns being ready for action, it wouldn't be very hard or costly to do. Plus I own an aluminum foundry now, so I can do it all from concept to finished part in hand all in-house, so very little out of pocket expense going out the door for prototyping a new product.

Can you post a link to your GM head? I'd like to see it.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Here you go. Just for comparison's sake, there are several guys over on Inliner's running these heads on 292 engines that are making 900 HP at the back tires, turbocharged of course. So that will give you an indication of the potential that can be available when bolted on a 300, and that's also using the stock cast cranks and blocks.

 

[xctasy]

The Poms started hi porting heads in 1961

See http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff- ... head-27481

and

and http://www.acheritage.co.uk/admin/edito ... G_0010.jpg

and http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/view ... 6&p=120908

The Duggan head was just a well exceuted Raymond Mays/Ruddspeed AC Ace knock-off. The Kiwi and Aussie subculture in then late Sixties and early Seventies had the most Super Sedans per capita than anywhere else, the majority of them street registered with "idiots" like Peter Brock with Opel Four speed, 247hp at 6500rpm, 140 mph tripple SU Holden 179 six cylinder engine in A 1956 A30 Austin.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKnkGVZ_kzo

http://www.uniquecars.ninemsn.com.au/po ... fault.aspx

it had Polyglass tires, and then YB22's, and was winning races in 1967 to 1968 with evil handling crumby Pommy shite chassis with a hardcore triple carbed I6. To get competitive advantage, I6 guys had to work every aspect of the design, and thats what inpsired Phil Irving and Frank Duggan, these little Pommy cars with I6's. In the V8 activated Americas, you could hide poor air flow with bigger ports, Dominator carbs and bigger, heavier blocks and thats were things headed, to the Bruce McLaren big block Chev era, cigarette money and supreme Vee Eight dominance EVERYWHERE! Yeehar!!!

The US was totally transfixed by Ford Total Performance, and with 470 pounds of eight venturi 289 in the first GT40's or Tran Am Boss 302's, why would anyone in the United States, every go back to a six again?

So the Aussies copied and re-made the Raymond Mays "down draught"head for proper Holden 179/186/202's and Chev 250/292's, and took the speed way and Sports Sedans racing titles with this upgraded. debugged and more powerfull aluminum casting stuff. Sadly, like Raymond Mays Zephyr Zodiac head, the Phil Irving heads were just as unreliable, with two surviving from 12 castings made in 1976...

CNC Dude, your castings won't be like our ones....go for it!

Best looking? To me, its a tie between the Raymond Mays headed, Ken Rudd prepared Ford Zephyr Six found in the penultimate Stage 5 tuned 1961-1963 AC Ace RS 2.6

(The majority of them were no where near as wild as the Stage 5 versions. This was the alloy headed triple DCOE 40 carbed 170 hp engine that did 6.2 second 0-60mphs, 15.3 sec quarter 135 mph top speed in the AC Ace convertable and Acea hardtop. Stage 3 versions did 16.3 second quarter miles, but the stage 5 was heaps quicker. Even stock Bristol engined Aces did 16.4 second quarter miles. The Ford Zephyr MK II six was kicked out in favour of Carroll Shelby's 260 and 289 engines, but the little Stage 5 2.6 six with Moss 4-speed plus Overdrive six almost eclisped the 271 hp gross of the K-code 4-bbl 289 AC Cobra (0-60 in 5.6 secs, 14.4 quarter, 138 mph top speed) as it was just 1917 pounds instead of the 2315 plus with the Dana 44 /4HU diff, Toploader and iron headed small block. Power started at Stage 1, 90 hp 2553 cc six, then it got twin carbs, then triples, then alloy head...120, 125, Triple SU Alloy headed 155, and finally 170 hp, almost double the power with just a head, cam and carb change. Sounds familiar doesn't it?). The net figures of the K code was likely to be 205 hp, as it was no where near 271 hp flywheel net, while the 170hp gross engine was likely to be 145 hp net. That a 2.6 could almsot match the 4.7 was an example of how much power a little six can yield. And there would have been more to come. In the Reliant Sabre, the Zephryr 2.6 continued on, but the small block v8 killed any further European I6 and V6 development until the Cosworth Capri RS 2600, RS 3100 and 3400. The 2.5/3.0 Essex and Cologne 2.6/2.8 engines were latent engines compared to the Ruddspeed six)

 

[CNC-Dude]

Thanks xctasy. I never got to meet or talk to Frank Duggan, but I hear he was quite a character. He definately brought a lot to the inline world in Oz as well as other places. I think this new head could also bring a lot to the Ford guys and give them potential they never had before.

 

[motzingg]

cncdude, that head is amazing... i would agree that it seems much easier to me to cast a whole new head than to weld heads together. Although i shouldn't talk, my casting projects aren't going very well right now.

do you do a crossflow, or just the high-ported? I would love to see any pics of your casting processes, patterns, etc.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Thanks motzingg, I just currently have the high port version for the 4 and 6 cylinder Chevy, with the 6 cylinder head supporting 900 HP, it kind of makes a crossflow design seem irrelevant. I may start tinkering with a Big Ford version of this head, it is a lot easier when you already have a set of patterns to begin with. This high port head will flow 320 CFM on the intake right out of the sand and I can make a solid version that can push 400 CFM, so it can provide any level of support that a Ford 300 could ever need.

 

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

I've got a few race cars with oodles of data with the stock 300 head for comparison. Nothing affects opinions and sways customers more than some A-to-B comparison data. When you have a working prototype piece let's talk.

 

[gb500]

phil irvine yella terra head for holden ((chevy) six:

if you are into old classic bikes
phil irvine made his name in the vincent designer.

aslo as a Formula 1 engine designer for the buick V8 in 1965 awhich powwered jac=ck brabham -and denny hulme to the Formula 1 drivers championship in 1966 , 1967

due to pic size limiting on this site :

http://gallery.oldholden.com/d/136820-1/piyt1.jpg
http://gallery.oldholden.com/d/136824-1/piyt2.jpg
http://gallery.oldholden.com/d/136827-1/piyt3.jpg

 

[Soldmy66]

cncdude, that head is amazing... i would agree that it seems much easier to me to cast a whole new head than to weld heads together. Although i shouldn't talk, my casting projects aren't going very well right now.

do you do a crossflow, or just the high-ported? I would love to see any pics of your casting processes, patterns, etc.

Agreed. The head looks awesome.

 

[russk]

CNC-Dude:

I'm curious about adjusting your Chevy 250/292 L6 patterns for the 240/300 Ford.

Would I be correct in assuming you would have the intake and exhaust ports in the same orientation but would change the sequence from e-ii-ee-ii-ee-ii-e (chevy) to the e-i-e-i-e-i-e-i ... (or should that be i-e-i-e ...) as it is for the "big" Ford so existing cams could be used? Obviously, custom intake manifolding would be required and perhaps headers as well.

By not going to a cross-flow design, you leave the distributor (and oil pump drive) choices in tact and that seems like a good thing to me. Also, will you keep the Ford's intake and exhaust on the passenger side of the engine (opposite that of the Chevy) and if so, what kind of a job is it going to be to revise your patterns accordingly?

Then there's the bore center issue (Chevy at 4.40" and Ford at 4.48" if I recall correctly) and differences to the water jacket and associated port alignment to the two different blocks. Probably similar issues with oil passages up to the valve train. And is there any material difference (or issues) with the head bolt locations between to two applications and, if so, could dealing with that interfere with port and valve train positioning?

What's the old saying? "The Devil is in the details"?

Russ

 

[CNC-Dude]

Russ, I would change the ports to conform to the stock locations unless I encounter issues by doing so, and of course anything else thats needed changing for the bore spacing would as well. I was just throwing this out here as a "what could happen" kind of scenario, and it appears the Ford guys are comfortable where they are with what they have. So, I might toy with it for myself if nothing else, I already have a Chevy and a Chrysler inline race car projects, I guess hunting a Maverick or something wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[bubba22349]

I have been collecting parts for a Drag car project for awhile, I would be interested in your 300 Six Head project too.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Ok bubba, just for reference sake, do you think trying to retain the stock cam lobe positions would be something that would be a plus. I do in a way, because you wouldn't have to have a special cam ground, and I might be able to make it where you could even use existing headers and intake manifolds, greatly reducing the "add-on" costs needed to complete the swap.

 

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Ok bubba, just for reference sake, do you think trying to retain the stock cam lobe positions would be something that would be a plus. I do in a way, because you wouldn't have to have a special cam ground, and I might be able to make it where you could even use existing headers and intake manifolds, greatly reducing the "add-on" costs needed to complete the swap.

Keeping the stock cam lobe patterns would be a BIIIIGGGG plus. That is because - believe it or not - there are lots of used camshafts around that can be had for relatively cheap. I personally own four ROLLER CAMS that I have acquired used from four different sources. They power my racers. I've also scarfed up several used hydraulic and a solid or two. My cost of all those cams is probably what one custom ground relocated lobe roller cam would be.

Cleveland V8 style hybrid heads would have probably been more widely used by racers were it not for the fact that the lobe order was reversed from the stock order - making a custom built camshaft a must.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Good, I figured that would be one less hiccup that guys would have to deal with.