Adding counterweight to crank??

Strange_Brew

New member
Was wondering if any of you have had experience with adding counterweights onto inline cranks? I want to do this on our motor in our pulling tractor. There is a shop in IL that does it, but the price is nuts!! Was hoping someone here has done it, knows a shop that does, or any other helpful ideas?
 
The 300 is internally balanced so adding weights to the crank would seem to mess things up, not improve amything unless you were to add an equivalent reciprocating mass and rebalance the entire lot at the heavier weight.

I'm with Thad on this one. What does all that gain you that couldn't be done more easily with a heavier flywheel?
 
Is the existing crank fully counterweighted, or are some throws "empty"?
If so, there is an argument to be made fior having the balance weight for each rod directly adjacent, instead of added to the CW of the other journals.
 
What engine do you have in your pull tractor? Is it a 300 Ford six or some stock tractor engine? Are you breaking cranks? Are you using a vibration damper on the front of the crank? We need more information. On inline engines counterweights are more for easing centrifugal force strains on the crankshaft that can break it than anything else. Richard
 
No, its a Allis engine, 301 ci. taken out to 405ci. 6200 rpms two turbo alky motor, 90 lbs boost. the cranks in these are very good cranks, 7 mains, but no counterweight to the crank. we want to run the rpms higher than we are now but can't, we are starting to get "crank whip" on numbers 3 and 4, you can tell it on the bearings. The best way to counter this is to weight it, they work well from what we've seen of others. I would like to find info and possibly shops that will do it? there is one shop that caters to pullers that does it, but they are very overpriced in my eyes.
 
Not familiar with the engine - has NO balance weights? Balancing is the damper, flywheel only?
From what I've seen (not done!) the CW can be simple plates of CRS contoured to fit closely around the existing main throw cheek etc. and welded into place, obviously, undercutting the area to permit penetration. The finished OD will greatly affect your crank inertia as well as balance. This is also the time to consider if you want to make an aero profile, since this is easier to do before the weights are attached - and remember the streamlining is direction-sensitive. I would try to make a cardboard template first to see if the same shape will fit all locations; if yes, considering the amount of metal you might want to have these water-cut etc. to a drawing, which will allow very close fit to the radius to save hand fitting.
Based on your complaint, you may be able to get away with only adding CWs around the center (#4) journal to reduce the out-of-balance weight that's causing the whipping, but this will make re-balancing unpleasant.
 
kitabel":tmu3e0hm said:
Not familiar with the engine - has NO balance weights? Balancing is the damper, flywheel only?....

That's a tractor engine, probably was originally governed to run at less-than 2400 rpm and maybe 60-70 hp.

90 lbs of boost ? :shock: :shock: :!: 8) 8)
Sounds like fun :D
Joe
 
My book of Nebraska Tractor tests lists an Allis-Chalmers model One Ninety as having a 301 ci engine, 3.875" bore x 4.25" stroke and developed 89 hp on the PTO at 2200 rpm burning gasoline. This same engine was also configured for propane with a 9:1 compression ratio, there was a diesel model as well. Should be a really sturdy powerplant 8)
Joe
 
I was told by a local race engine builder that back in the day people were brakeing cranks in I6's they fixed this by taking out the center bearing and blocking off the oil to it.
 
So, you fix crank flex by taking out the supports? Doesn't make sense to this guy. Isn't the #4 usually the thrust bearing too?
 
tknordine":3ky3yimr said:
I was told by a local race engine builder that back in the day people were brakeing cranks in I6's they fixed this by taking out the center bearing and blocking off the oil to it.

I would think some kind of Main bearing support/ brace between the block and pan would be better than that.
 
it actully makes sense in backward kind of way (the kind of thing you do when the rules wont allow otherwise)
your letting the crank flex over a greater area which means it takes more flex to get to the breaking point.
i whould not recmoned it for this instance but.
is there anther engine with the same bore spacing thats counterbalanced you could put in there.
how you running your turbo's compound or seqential?
 
We need a picture of the crank. There are several ways to add counterweights.
I would try to avoid welding if possible.
 
Mets machine can counterweight your crank reasonablly. I have an 8.3 cummins on alky w/twin chargers. I didn't have to counterweight my crank, because it was counterweigthed formt he factory. BUT, alot of the tractor engines such as the waukeshas, allis, JD, etc.. weren't counter weighted. At stock RPM's crank flex wan't an issue. By fully counterweighting a crank, you ad tons of strength and it cures the harmonics problem.. Check out Metsmachine.com. hope this helps.
 
Our Aussie Falcon I6's never had a proper 12 counterweight crank from 1960 to 1993. Then they copied GM-Holden, and basically made this upgrade from the EB2 Falcons 8 counterweight crank.


10EFcounterwightvs6XPtoEDcounterwei.jpg



The early GM Holden L6's from 1963 to 1980 had a cast iron crank, which would resonate between 4500 to 5500. Holden solved it by using a steel crank, 12 pounds heavier for a 2.2" main bearing, 1.9" crank pin item.

The cost of a steel crank on all Holden's 2-bbl and EFI 2.8 and 3.3 in line engines was excessive for Holden, so a 12 counter balance nodular iron crank, 18 pounds heavier than the earlier one was used.

The resonance point was shifted up to 7500 rpm, where no-one would notice it.

As long as the crank runs fully balanced by a specialist, then you can run 12, 8 or 6 counterweights.

I don't pretent to know anything about the balance of an I6, but certainly know that the heavier the crank, the higher it can rev before critcal resonations kick in. There a special order vibration which moves along and back through the whole block centres, very much like a gaint tuning fork. If you use 12 counterweights, it raises the revs at which the crank reverberates/resonates or chimes. Every fixed or revolving object, when moved by a a horizontal or vertical lift resonates.

In my work as a lab technician doing quality assurnace tests for earth dams and land reclaiation, we used to determine maximum densities for various kinds of vibration amplitudes. So you could set up a 100 pounds of aggreagate, and adjust a 60 Hertz power supply to any height or frequency of vertical jolt, and see how well compacted you could get it.

One ASTM, Bureu of Reclamation and New Zealand standard actually covers it. Anyway, you would draw two converging lines, (on horizontal, and one at 5 degrees and scale off the amplitude or the vibration by how much the 250 pound table would converge the marks by.

Basically, if you find the point at where the engine goes rough, you can get a small mpeg recording in the engine bay, and read off the vertical jolt. If you add the counterweights, the jolt amplitude will be reduced.

British firm Tickford engineering (who were Aston Martins consultant engineers), found Fords old I6 crank was a disaster, with a coinsiderable amount of vibration causing a reduction in the longer term 300 hour wide open throttle fatigue life. Risks were that above 225 hp at 5000rpm in an OHC I6, the service life would be worse than the stock 190 hp version at 4500 rpm. There solution was to reduce the power to 221 at 4600 rpm, below a certain critical level, and they suggested (from Aston Martin experience with high rpm steel cranks in soft aluminium blocks) that Ford Australia use a better 12 counterweight crank.

And thats what Ford did. Since 1993, they have changed the main bearing size from 2.4 to 2.65" diameter, which has again allowed a much higher rev range, and an ability for custom cranks of the same design to hack brief 45 psi turbo tiraids to 1500 hp.
 
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