adjusting valves properly

[dawnovsky]

hi,
thanks bubba, I' ve try your method too and still wonder how you can easily plug a socket on a moving rocker. flixible extendion might help.

The thing is now i don't have any abvious clicks, but when driving the car it just clicks. clicks slow down when car is slowing down (engine is slowing down to), accelerate a bit when transmission si switching down.
at idle the srequency is about 3 clicks a second.
my push rod are quiet sold, even after a few minutes off. I can figure out how to test bleeding. Can't get anything from them pushing by hand.
i don't have the appropriate tool either.

 

[bubba22349]

still wonder how you can easily plug a socket on a moving rocker. flixible extendion might help.

Yeah that is the biggest problem with those type rockers, getting the car idled down at the lowest an RPM that it will still run would help some, but it still going be jumping around.

my push rod are quiet sold, even after a few minutes off. I can figure out how to test bleeding. Can't get anything from them pushing by hand.
i don't have the appropriate tool either.

Sounds like the lifters are probably fine and not bleeding off. The test I was thinking about would use a mechanical oil pressure gauge to see if oil pressure was good during running at idle RPM, driving speed. and also could be checked if it dropped quickly after shut down due to an excessive oil galley leak. Maybe you really don't have a lifter problem at all and the ticking is coming from another source? IE like something hitting a moving part. Valve cover, oil pan, even fuel pumps can be a cause of ticking sounds.

 

[Frankenstang]

As far as i understand, when push rod is removed, oil chamber of the lifter is fully open, as well as oil gallery, allowing oil to enter the lifter.

Yes, as long as oil is being delivered, but it won't be delivered with the engine not running...ie without priming the system via the oil pump. So yes the oil lifter reservoir is open allowing it to be filled, or 'emptied' in this case...thus your symptom described as "no compression" (which is really more like 'only compression') at least until you crank the engine over long enough (or prime the system sufficiently) for the hydraulic lifters to pump back up pressure and properly 'work' the valves.

EDIT: Your noise sounds like it could be a symptom of worn or collapsed lifter(s), or poor oil delivery. Good luck
http://www.aa1car.com/library/engine_noise.htm
"COLLAPSED LIFTER NOISE
Worn, leaky or dirty lifters can also cause valvetrain noise. If oil delivery is restricted to the lifters (plugged oil galley or low oil pressure), the lifters won't "pump up" to take up the normal slack in the valvetrain. A "collapsed" lifter will then allow excessive valve lash and noise.
VALVE LASH NOISE
...On engines with hydraulic lifters, oil pressure pumps up the lifters when the engine is running to maintain zero lash in the valvetrain. This results in quiet operation. So if the rocker arms are clattering, it tells you something is amiss (bad lifter or worn or damaged parts) or the rocker arms need adjusting."

 

[CNC-Dude]

Low or poor oil pressure can also cause the rockers to make noise, especially at low RPM, making you think they are out of adjustment when they really aren't. Also check for worn rocker tips and/or valve stem tips if the engine in question is of unknown mileage.

 

[dawnovsky]

thanks for the answer...
I have always been surprised by the relatively low oil flow in cylinder head of the 200, since i have a chance to see it working without valve cover.
at idle mine is giving oil drops at every rocker once or twice every second. if i press the gaz it's actually splashing.
I have come since with the feeling that this is an appropriate oiling of head.
gauge is reading about 1/3 to 1/2+ (2/3) depending on how tick the oil is. sensor is new (2 years old)
i have an extra oil pump by have the feeling it's a mess to install so it laying on my desk this a few years waiting for an obvious oil failure.
do you think this is appropriate oiling.


as far as i understand, hydrau lifters are resting in oil (somtime called supply chamber) that is feed in oil by from the head.
Manual say :

"excess of oil spirals down the ROTATING push rod and assists in lubricating the tappet and pushrod seats"
I don't have the feeling push rod rotating that much.

few engine fact :

200 block
250-2v head, rebuilt with new valves oversized exhaust as no std where available), springs (from australia) , surface shaved.
News lifters and new push rods (all from CI).
rocker and valves tem tips looks ok to me.

btw where can i get oversized rocker adjusting screws ?. some of mine seems a bit loose.


thanks

 

[bubba22349]

I have always been surprised by the relatively low oil flow in cylinder head of the 200, since i have a chance to see it working without valve cover.
at idle mine is giving oil drops at every rocker once or twice every second. if i press the gaz it's actually splashing.
I have come since with the feeling that this is an appropriate oiling of head.

That sounds like you have good oil flow to the top end, you don't need a lot.

gauge is reading about 1/3 to 1/2+ (2/3) depending on how tick the oil is. sensor is new (2 years old)
i have an extra oil pump by have the feeling it's a mess to install so it laying on my desk this a few years waiting for an obvious oil failure.
do you think this is appropriate oiling.

It could be, you could also use temporary or permanent mounted mechanical oil pressure gauge in the engine compartment to see what pressure you really have and compare it to the stock gauge.

as far as i understand, hydrau lifters are resting in oil (somtime called supply chamber) that is feed in oil by from the head.
Manual say :

"excess of oil spirals down the ROTATING push rod and assists in lubricating the tappet and pushrod seats"
I don't have the feeling push rod rotating that much.

If you look at a diagram of the oil flow of a 200 the oil pump picks up the oil in pan sends it to the filter than to block to feed the mains and rods than to cam bearings, timing chain set, next the lifters and last up top to rockers & shaft, valves, springs, retainers, and guides etc.. If you could see the inside of the engine operate at higher RPM you would see the push rods and valves do spin or rotate.

Your list of new parts looks good. How about the rocker set are they new? If not the rocker shaft bushings or shaft could be worn some on one or more if there is excess clearance than and even if you have the valve lash set correctly you would have a valve train tick or ticks. You maybe able to see or feel the looseness with engine running if you watch at the rockers pivot on the shaft. If you see it bouncing some, could be the shaft (look for wear on the bottom side of shaft) or it can be also be a rocker bushing that has wear. Taken apart you can measure the clearance and or if need be rebuild them easily too (new bushing and or the shaft). Good luck

 

[19Mustang65]

You stated that you replaced the lifters, did you replace the cam? If not, then the cam has been worn and this will cause the camshaft to "bounce" front to back. were the old lifters flat on the camside or were they concave ? all it takes is a few thousands to create the problem. Been there had that problem, replace lifters and cam as a set.