There's a guy over at VMF who has one with a broken 200 in it. He's looking to replace it with a better 200 or something bigger, maybe a 250 or ? It sounded like a project some of the people around here might be interested in. I told him to post here, but I don't think he has yet.
All Small Six Anybody Know Anything About A 1945 M20 Armored Personnel Carrier?
- Thread starter TrickSix
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
I know that they were made by Ford and are way too heavy at 12,000 Lb.'s to try using a little light duty 200 Six, they just won't have enough Torque for that kind of weight. They originally had a Hercules JXD 320 Cu. In Six Gas engine in them. Your right that something bigger is needed a tougher Ford Truck 300 Six could probably work though.
Yea, the VMF poster said it had originally been a Herc, but had the 200 put in many years ago and ran with it until now. But slooowwwly! He had hoped to keep the swap easy and cheap, without changing mounts, driveshaft, etc. That's why he'd consider another 200, but it really could use more power. I knew somebody on here would know something about them!
Well then he should at least go with a 250 six lots more Torque over a 200 six.
I re-read your post again TrickSix, in thinking some more about the 250 Six swap might not Fit into that definition of both easy and cheap, the 200 Six maybe hard to beat for the cheap part. The 250's uses a different Bell Housing (SBF), (and maybe also the starter depending on the year of the 200 he has) they also have a larger Flywheel, and bigger Clutch assembly, and without seeing what it look's like now it's kind of hard to say if those items would push it to far over that Cost line, but the install would still be fairly easy for either engine. Besides the extra expense of those Manual Trans parts, chances are he wouldn't need to change the Drive Shaft that would depend on what it looks like for it's length right now and the Motor Mounts that he has now can work with the 250 Swap. So the 200 Six is still going to be less unless he can score a really good running 250 cheaper than a 200.
"...it had originally been a Herc..."
isnt that a 4 cyl?
I think if it's 12,000# rig that's not possible.
I think it was the orig 'jeep' (@ war). The lill rig that became a CJ, wrangler, etc. THAT
DID havea "Herculease) AND a 200 ci ThriftPower would B a boost if used to re-power. The
250 is TOO much in my mind (a 4.1 or. 2 lieter). That's a lill cramped 2 seater~
Y not puda jeep motor ina jeep? get their 4L a amc 258 or later jeep i6 4.1 (250)? Rebuild the
OEM, usea Hurricne, or Tornado motor.
isnt that a 4 cyl?
I think if it's 12,000# rig that's not possible.
I think it was the orig 'jeep' (@ war). The lill rig that became a CJ, wrangler, etc. THAT
DID havea "Herculease) AND a 200 ci ThriftPower would B a boost if used to re-power. The
250 is TOO much in my mind (a 4.1 or. 2 lieter). That's a lill cramped 2 seater~
Y not puda jeep motor ina jeep? get their 4L a amc 258 or later jeep i6 4.1 (250)? Rebuild the
OEM, usea Hurricne, or Tornado motor.
Sorry Chad but these are far bigger than the little WW II Jeeps. They have Armor on them and 6 Wheels as well as being Taller,
Wider, and Longer by a lot. There use to be a place near were I grew up that had an assortment of WW II Vehicles on display including one of these.
Wider, and Longer by a lot. There use to be a place near were I grew up that had an assortment of WW II Vehicles on display including one of these.
gota pic? I'd like 2 hear more. googled it to the lill jeep in WWII/Korea willys (almost 80 y/o now) known as JK now.
Ur talkin more'n an M715 '5 quarter' (one local, kinda like the ol Power WagonWC51/52), more likea loader/hoe might weight? A 4bT is in one @ 4L turbo Diesel, 105 HP, 265 tq, 2500 RPM. The 4.9L got upto 300 HP w/stevens HD exh manifold. Used in big class 4 dumps (14 -16,K lbs).
Ur talkin more'n an M715 '5 quarter' (one local, kinda like the ol Power WagonWC51/52), more likea loader/hoe might weight? A 4bT is in one @ 4L turbo Diesel, 105 HP, 265 tq, 2500 RPM. The 4.9L got upto 300 HP w/stevens HD exh manifold. Used in big class 4 dumps (14 -16,K lbs).
These dimensions are taken from the base model. | Weight 12,000 lbs English (ft/in/lbs) |
No it's nothing like a Jeep or 5 Quarter think of it like a small Tank on Six Rubber Tires, when I was in the Army I Drove a Armored Personal Carrier (APC) , Jeeps, a 5 Quarter and occasionally a Deuce & a Half. The APC I drove was somewhat bigger separated by 25 or so years at that time but it did still have one of .50 Cal Browning Machine Gun's on it. It also and a 4.2 Inch Mortar Mounted in the back and many Rounds of .50 Cal & 4.2 Amo, plus carried a full Gunners Crew of 3, plus room for a few others, it road on Tracks.
The Spec's of these M20's is a little hard to locate but here is some more info on the M20's Armored Utility Car Spec’s and a few pictures of the the M20 Utility Car. It was a combined Command Car, Personal Carrier, & a Cargo Carrier, they were based on the M8 Greyhound Light Armored Car see the Second & Third from the last two pictures for what an M8 looks like. The M8 configuration had a Turret Mounted on the top, it's Armor was up to 1 Inch Thick, the M8 had a 37 MM Gun M6 they carried 80 Rounds for it, also had 1 X .50 Caliber Browning M2HB Machine Gun and Carried 400 Rounds for it. Plus had 1 X .30 Caliber Browning Machine Gun and carried 1500 Rounds for it, the last picture show one of the M8's during WW II. The M20 had a little less Armor on it the max was 3/4 Inch thick on parts of it, had only 1 X .50 Caliber Browning M2HB Machine Gun. The M20 in the first Picture is on display at the Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles. More M20 details that I just found: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_M20_armored_
https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=751
https://ww2-history.fandom.com/wiki/M20_Armored_Utility_Car
LOL they even use to make a Model of the M20 see last picture. https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/148-military-miniature/us-m20-armored-utility-car/
The Spec's of these M20's is a little hard to locate but here is some more info on the M20's Armored Utility Car Spec’s and a few pictures of the the M20 Utility Car. It was a combined Command Car, Personal Carrier, & a Cargo Carrier, they were based on the M8 Greyhound Light Armored Car see the Second & Third from the last two pictures for what an M8 looks like. The M8 configuration had a Turret Mounted on the top, it's Armor was up to 1 Inch Thick, the M8 had a 37 MM Gun M6 they carried 80 Rounds for it, also had 1 X .50 Caliber Browning M2HB Machine Gun and Carried 400 Rounds for it. Plus had 1 X .30 Caliber Browning Machine Gun and carried 1500 Rounds for it, the last picture show one of the M8's during WW II. The M20 had a little less Armor on it the max was 3/4 Inch thick on parts of it, had only 1 X .50 Caliber Browning M2HB Machine Gun. The M20 in the first Picture is on display at the Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles. More M20 details that I just found: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_M20_armored_
https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=751
https://ww2-history.fandom.com/wiki/M20_Armored_Utility_Car
LOL they even use to make a Model of the M20 see last picture. https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/148-military-miniature/us-m20-armored-utility-car/
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1944 M20 Armored Utility Car 1.jpg -
1944 M20 Armored Utility Car 2.jpg -
1944 M20 Armored Utility Car 4.jpg -
1944 M20 Armored Personal Carrier.jpg -
M20 Armored Utility Car.jpg -
M8 GreyHound Armored Car Photo taken in Connecticut in 2008..JPG -
M8 Greyhound Armoured Car.jpg -
Model of a M20 Armored Utility Car.jpg
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Cool DannyG, I never got the chance to drive or work on either of them they were suppose to be according to their spec's kind of fast for something that was built way back in the 1940's.
that's modern compaired to the 2 a neighbor has (detroit diesels). He sez these 2 stroke can B swaped to either side. Meaning reversed on their mounts and the intakes/exhaust manafolde swapped to the other side ! First off the "2 stroke diesel" is enuff to twist up my thinkin, then he hada add that. I dont know, I think TS has enuff goin on to want to avoid a DD. (probably more oem tho, as they had one on each tack ina WWII tank).
I'd think a repower would be something more modern, efficient, better MPG, etc (like the 12v). NP435 for transmis would B nice as well ('crawler' 1st gear)?
I'd think a repower would be something more modern, efficient, better MPG, etc (like the 12v). NP435 for transmis would B nice as well ('crawler' 1st gear)?
Yeah those Diesels are great however they don't really meet the plans of what the OP stated in the first couple of posts, IE a low cost swap for it without changing lots of things.
the 12v is not puter controlled, more simple fuel pump, easy to get, not expensive, etc.
Even the 4.9 (almost same motor as 200/3.3, wella nother ThriftPower) could require changes.
Not sure where the extra digit (the 3rd, a zero) came from. M2 v M20...
Top speed 56mi/hr, 250 mi range Powerplant: 1 x Hercules (Canton, OH) JXD gasoline engine (i6, 320ci in the M8) developing 86-110 horsepower at 2,800rpm. (nother cite) Hercules 3XD engine? Sometimes the M2 was deployed as a half track.
Probably Y the 200 went is they tried to run a big mo`chene w/a lill engine. Time to pair it up correctly.
4bT, 12v (add 2 cyl) or 4.9 (2 cummins & 1 ford). Like all automotive questions the answer is in "What is
the APPLICATION?" Here:
Something weighs like a back hoe BUT
is it a parade vehicle? (short mi, flat surface), a off rd party vehicle?, a ... ?, a ... ?
Even the 4.9 (almost same motor as 200/3.3, wella nother ThriftPower) could require changes.
Not sure where the extra digit (the 3rd, a zero) came from. M2 v M20...
Top speed 56mi/hr, 250 mi range Powerplant: 1 x Hercules (Canton, OH) JXD gasoline engine (i6, 320ci in the M8) developing 86-110 horsepower at 2,800rpm. (nother cite) Hercules 3XD engine? Sometimes the M2 was deployed as a half track.
Probably Y the 200 went is they tried to run a big mo`chene w/a lill engine. Time to pair it up correctly.
4bT, 12v (add 2 cyl) or 4.9 (2 cummins & 1 ford). Like all automotive questions the answer is in "What is
the APPLICATION?" Here:
Something weighs like a back hoe BUT
is it a parade vehicle? (short mi, flat surface), a off rd party vehicle?, a ... ?, a ... ?
What? The M20 is the Armored Personnel Carrier and the M2 is the .500 Cal Browning Machine Gun that was used as it's Defense / Protection. From your choices my guess is its likely used as a Parade / Display Vehicle or could also be used for Movie's.
OK then. The 200 might do it again, I'd go upa level or 2 for something the weight of a backhoe tho.
He's not been back ina wk, "...200 or something bigger, maybe a 250 or ?..." so not sure the transmis, 6 way drive wheels.
Meaning no idea on what divorced transfer there is, bell housing (the 3.3 was set up w/), etc...
What is the big deal the 200 makes the same power that the original engine made, no. 86 hp at 2800.
ah what the heck, all i6s are the same, no?
"...Top speed 56mi/hr, 250 mi range Powerplant: 1 x Hercules (Canton, OH) JXD gasoline engine (i6, 320ci in the M8) developing 86-110 horsepower at 2,800rpm. (nother cite) Hercules 3XD engine? Sometimes the M2 was deployed as a half track...."
bub's link (I quote above) sez the M8 was called the 'greyhound' or gazelle or something ("Hey U...get the general up head of the line -pronto!") due to speed of travel. 8^ )
"...Top speed 56mi/hr, 250 mi range Powerplant: 1 x Hercules (Canton, OH) JXD gasoline engine (i6, 320ci in the M8) developing 86-110 horsepower at 2,800rpm. (nother cite) Hercules 3XD engine? Sometimes the M2 was deployed as a half track...."
bub's link (I quote above) sez the M8 was called the 'greyhound' or gazelle or something ("Hey U...get the general up head of the line -pronto!") due to speed of travel. 8^ )
