Anyone running Clay Smith 264/264 108 L/C camshaft

[dayman]

I have been thinking of put a 264/264 108 LC in the new engine for my daily driver because I am mostly interested in torque and RPMs up to 5000. Does anyone have any experience with the camshaft?

Daily driver is a 1966 Mustang, 250 cu in, T5, OZ 250 head and intake with Autolite 2 barrel.
Is the cam a good choice? How does it idle? Any comments appreciated.

 

[chopperman69]

From what I'm reading the idle will be pretty rough. I chose the 264/264-110 cam for my 200 build. I would recommend advancing the cam 4 degrees for more low end power.

Here's some info from the Classic Inlines website in regards to lobe center.

"Simply put, the lobe center of a cam controls where the power curve is applied. The tighter the lobe center, the lower the rpm range; the wider the lobe center, the higher the rpm range. The rpm range is also known as, or refer to as the power band. In general, two degrees of lobe center is equal to approximately 500rpm. Therefore, if a cam with a 110* lobe center has a power range between 2500-6000 RPM, the same cam with a 112* lobe center would have a power range of 3000-6500 RPM. Conversely the same cam with a 108* lobe center would have a power range of 2000-5500 RPM.

However, a cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110* lobe center, while a cam with a 108* lobe center will idle rougher. A cam with a 112* lobe center will generally have a smooth idle, a cam with a 110* lobe center will be a bit lopey, while a cam with a 108* will have a rough or choppy idle. A camshaft with a 112* lobe center will work with either an automatic or a manual transmission, however a cam with a 108* lobe center will normally require a matched stall converter for the best results."

 

[kevinl1058]

My cam has a similiar profile 268/278 dual pattern with a 109 lobe center. I has a fat thumpy idle, motors raps like crazy. Old school guys think I have a built V8. Cam was Degreed 7 degrees to get the most out of it in regards to the head work done. 1650-5500 powerband.

 

[dayman]

Econoline64

Thanks for the post. I have read the same information from the web site.
The following link also has additional information.

http://www.classicinlines.com/CamCompare.asp

The Coment Codes on the link for the 264/264 108 cam are: A-D-G-J-M

A) smooth idle
D) good vacuum
G) manual or stock converter
J) stock gear ratio OK
M) stock compression ratio OK

I bought the camshaft 6-8 months ago and I can't remember how I justified the grind. After reading all the threads and other information, I started to think I had made a mistake. Thanks for your comments

 

[dayman]

kevinl1058

Thanks for the comments. I am one of those Old School Guys. Raced round track and drags in the 60's and 70's. Then got away from it for awhile.

I like a fat thumpy idle.

Did you run a single pattern cam before the dual pattern? Curious about the difference. I have read in the threads where there is some performance to be gained on the exhaust with the dual pattern. May consider the dual pattern before I finish the engine build. Block and crank are at the machine shop now and won't be ready for a couple of weeks, so I have some time to reconsider what to use.

What compression are you running?

 

[kevinl1058]

Since I am running a tri-power set-up I went the Dual Pattern route as recommended in the Performance handbook. My engine builder felt that the 108 was way to aggressive for a performance street motor, more of a drag type cam. I am pulling around 10-11 Hg's of vaccuum with this cam, so if you are looking for a cam that has a higher vacuum rating for your application then the info on the classic inlines site is a great direction to go for that info. I am running 9.5 compression ratio. We degreed the cam to 7 degrees to get the most out of it. I have all the build info at work so look for the specs later this afternoon.

 

[rbohm]

From what I'm reading the idle will be pretty rough. I chose the 264/264-110 cam for my 200 build. I would recommend advancing the cam 4 degrees for more low end power.

Here's some info from the Classic Inlines website in regards to lobe center.

"Simply put, the lobe center of a cam controls where the power curve is applied. The tighter the lobe center, the lower the rpm range; the wider the lobe center, the higher the rpm range. The rpm range is also known as, or refer to as the power band. In general, two degrees of lobe center is equal to approximately 500rpm. Therefore, if a cam with a 110* lobe center has a power range between 2500-6000 RPM, the same cam with a 112* lobe center would have a power range of 3000-6500 RPM. Conversely the same cam with a 108* lobe center would have a power range of 2000-5500 RPM.

if you read the entire article, you will find that this particular paragraph is in fact incorrect. understand that narrower lobe centers means more valve overlap, which increases the rpm range of the cam, not decreases.

However, a cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110* lobe center, while a cam with a 108* lobe center will idle rougher. A cam with a 112* lobe center will generally have a smooth idle, a cam with a 110* lobe center will be a bit lopey, while a cam with a 108* will have a rough or choppy idle. A camshaft with a 112* lobe center will work with either an automatic or a manual transmission, however a cam with a 108* lobe center will normally require a matched stall converter for the best results."

this is the accurate paragraph that was quoted from the article. wider lobe centers means less valve overlap, which means more dynamic compression at lower speeds, which means more low end torque. narrower lobe centers means more overlap, which means less dynamic compression at lower speeds, which means less low end torque, but it also means more dynamic compression at higher speeds, which means more high end power.

read the whole article before you choose a narrow lobe center cam for a daily driver. for your 250 i recommend the 110 lobe center cam for a couple of reasons;

1: with the extra stroke length, you dont need any more torque generation

2: you will want a little more high end power but still want to keep the smoother idle

the 110 lobe centers will do that for you.

 

[kevinl1058]

I stand corrected, here are the specs of my cam grind:
462/472 Lift
262/270 Duration
109.75 Lobe Separation

Cam was advanced 7.25 degrees. Due to in the sock position the cam was 7^ ret. So we moved the Cam 1 tooth advanced and put in a 4^Ret Key in Crank to give ILC of 102^
Intake Opens 6^BTDC .307" Lobe lift / Closes 30^ ABDC, 216^ Duration 102^ Lobe Center
Exhaust Opens 49^BBDC .314" Lobe lift / Closes 6^BTDC, 223^ Duration 117.5^ Lobe Center
Lobe Separation 109.75^

Just a side note the Block was bored .060 over and 0 Decked to achieve the 9.5:1 compression ratio. This cam will provide a nice healthy thumpy idle and a good amount of bottom end torque.

 

[kevinl1058]

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f345/ ... con2-1.mp4
Here is a short video of my 61 just to give Idea of what your cam would give you if you have a similar build. I am running headers but no exhaust at the time. I will say that even running the super 44's it didn't make much of a difference. Still aggressive.

 

[dayman]

Thanks rbohm, kevinl1058, and Econoline64 for the feedback and comments. Really helpful. I decided to go with the

CSC-264-HDP-10
264/274-110* Hydraulic Cam - Dual.
I think it will be a better all around choice.

kevinl1058 - That is one cool looking Falcon. Really sounds great. Very impressive. Wheels really awesome!!!

I will post up some photos as soon as I get something worth seeing.

 

[kevinl1058]

Glad we can help..

 

[chopperman69]

Kevin,

That Falcon is way bad... Just plain NASTY...

 

[MPGmustang]

Dayman,

I have the sam cam that you decided to go with, 264/274 110 .450 from CSC... I like it, it's aggressive and has PLENTY of passing power in drive (4th gear) and can sustain 85+ in 5th easily even with my 1bbl 1100v... that was with both the LOM with pertronics and the DUI on 2 separate occasions...

I'm running a 9.3 CR and am thinking I can go a little higher due to the dual cam grind, the exhaust grind cause's more time so less dynamic CR where if I went single grind I would have been perfect with my 9.3, so you can with the dual grind run 9.5-10 easily and it will act as a 9.3 engine single grind but get the benefit of more HP at higher rpm (maybe 2-5hp) and more low end torque (can see +5-10tq) on a 9.8 CR with the cam 4* advanced, 6* if you really want more torque (i'm thinking about advancing mine to 6* maybe 8* due to the way I drive in the 1000 rpms)

and we all know 1hp is a huge improvement on our engines...

I like my idle quality, it's ~850rpm 11vac @ idle, and with a deep rumble... everyone guess's 351 cleveland...