Anyone running non-roller adjustable rocker arms on a 250?

[62Ranchero200]

If so, could you let me know how long your ball and cup pushrods are?

I understand that standard ball and ball 250 pushrods are 9 5/16ths, but the adjuster on the adjustable rocker arm must make the pushrod considerably shorter.

The CI web site lists "standard length" and "standard length - 1/8" but doesn't say what those lengths are.

Thanks
Bob the Builder

 

[bubba22349]

My 250 has the non adjustable rockers they are a ball end on both. Right now I don't have any of ball and cup push rods to compare them to the stock ones. I would guess that the adjustable rockers push rod (ball and cup) would need to be around an 1/8 to 1/4 inch shorter then a non adjustable. With the rockers bolted down and engine with # 1 at TDC set the adjuster at its mid point of travel then use your stock non adjustable push rod to see how much of a length difference there is, that should at least get you a measurement thats in the ball park to that measurement you could also add about .060 longer for the lifter preload if your running Hyd. lifters, though the adjustment in the rockers will take care of that. Next compare that measurement to the available push rod lengths to see whats close and those should be right the right ones. Also if your block and head have not been cut much (decked or milled from stock size) than the push rods listed as stock length should be right. Good luck

 

[xctasy]

Your best bet is finding some custom 9.235" cup and ball pushrods.

Classic Inlines stock size RAS-250-ANP Chrome Moly Ball & Cup Push Rods (250ci)

The rest is about bumping your engine enough to get the lifters pumped up, see below

But on my Aussie 250 engine they are 8.920" on my log head. Which will be close to what US 250's have if the very early adjustable gear is used.

The Aussie engines 9.38 deck is 89 thou shallower, but uses a 45 thou gasket.


My reason is that the adjustable to non adjustable pushrod difference on any small Ford Six 144/170/200/250 is 120 thou less.

3/8"Ball and 3/8"Ball High Energy Pushrods for Ford Inline 6Cyl. 170-200 1965-83. Not for use with guide plates, 5/16" Dia.- 8.350" Length.
SEALED POWER RP3176 or BRP3176
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carco ... ype,5648,a
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... cc=1332874

Earlier 144/170 and 200's had adjustable ball and cup ended pushrods, at 8.230".
SEALED POWER RP3076
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carco ... ype,5648,a
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... cc=1332874


SEALED POWER RP3202 or BRP 3202
3/8"Ball and 3/8"Ball for Ford inline 6Cyl. 250 1980 is 9.355"
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carco ... ype,5648,a
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... cc=1130016

There is no longer any common ball and ball pushrod. Since the non adjustable ball and ball to adjustable ball and cup looses 120 thou, if it were around, an Adjustable ball and cup would be 9.235"

I'm a bit upset, can't find my old Breakfast in America post on this. Our Aussie non cross flows had adjustable rocker gear with an approx 8.920" pushrod

1. The adjustable rockers and whatever push-rods you get have to be the right type. There are I guess your on the right track now.





They have to clear the rocker cover






The Aussie forum has some 200, 221 and 250 Aussie info

It's been 7 years since I've had a 221 apart, and I think that from 1968, the 221's got earlier adjustable valve gear, not the same as the US 250. One of addos posts confirmed it. This means the 221 has a "cup to the rocker gear, and a ball to the hydraulic lifter" pushrod. The rockers were designed to have a 3/8" (9.525 mm, 0.375") ball, while the 250 had a ball on the pushrod and a cup on the rocker, to a rocker mounted ball.

Stock factory log and 2v 250's are quoted as 8.920" std (ball a lifter, cup to rocker ball for adjustable rocker gear)

For adjustment, use this step from raceabilene.com

1. Pick a cylinder.
2. Bump the motor until the Exhaust valve starts up. Intake is now on base circle.
3. Loosen the intake lock nut.
4. WAIT a minute or so, to let the plunger relax.
5. Twirl intake pushrod between thumb and forefinger (hold gently) and tighten the lock nut until you feel the pushrod stop turning. A little practice is all it takes. You will know - it stops right away, unless you are turning it with pliers. This is zero lash.
6. Tighten locknut 1/2~3/4 turn.
7. Bump the motor until the Intake is almost down. Exhaust is now on base circle.
8. Loosen the exhaust lock nut.
9. WAIT a minute or so, to let the plunger relax.
10. Twirl exhaust pushrod between thumb and forefinger (hold gently) , etc...
11. Tighten locknut 1/2~3/4 turn.
12. Repeat as necessary.

If you go 1 cylinder at a time, you won't screw up or get confused or need a checklist. There IS a faster way - use it between rounds at the races, or to save time on the dyno. You have the time, go slow and you won't have to second guess after you put the valve covers on.

 

[xctasy]

Classic Inlines stock size RAS-250-ANP Chrome Moly Ball & Cup Push Rods (250ci) fits the bill at a brilliant price.

http://classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=39


And http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/valveadj.html for the right hydraulic lifter process.

The Aussie and US 250 have a 393 thou difference in oil pump to distributor placement, and that is why everything between the same headed 250 is different.


to quote alloy dave on https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 98&start=0

you will need an aussie oil pump drive if yours is buggered USA drives are
10mm to short -can cut down 351c drive but will leave 1 unhardened end.

 

[62Ranchero200]

I ordered and received the CI cup and ball pushrods for stock type adjustable rockers on a 250 ("stock length"). Much to my surprise, they seem to be exactly the same length as the stock ball and ball pushrods: measured from the rim of the cup to the tip of the ball, they are 9 5/16" long. This doesn't make sense to me, because surely the adjustment bolts on the adjustable rockers extend down (towards the lifters) farther than the non-adjustable rockers do.

Could it be that they are supposed to be measured differently, such as from the center of the cup to the tip of the ball? That would yield a measurement that is maybe around .10" less.

I think I'm going to have to be at the extreme "loose" end of the rocker arm adjustment to make these pushrods work.

Thanks
Bob

 

[bubba22349]

Both types are probably measured end to end, but the effective length would be different for the adjustable type going from end of ball to inside the bottom of the cup.

 

[Econoline]

I'd be interested in hearing how the standard length 250 ball and cup rods work for you Bob.

I'm glad this has come up, I've been wondering this myself. I haven't ordered my pushrods from CI yet. From your comments and the fact that I've decked the block .032" I'm leaning towards getting the 1/8" minus ones.

Thanks,
Seth

 

[xctasy]

Did you use the 8.920" pushrods?

 

[powerband]

... seems like everybody's into pushrods, I just opened up a US 250 with reportedly less than 25K miles (@40233.6km). As a matter of habit , I spun the pushrods (non-adj.) between my fingers and surprised to find EXH #3 bent . 'Needed a larger chamber US log head ( @60cc head ) for a project but couldn't pass up the rest of engine. Now pondering if it was jammed in factory assembly, suffered a locked lifter ,weird cam, or dropped before install' ...

ALSO a question - A "Remanufactured " NOS adjustable Rocker Assy' I have has the oil weep holes on TOP ( facing up ) of shaft under rockers - this can't be right - right ?...

( I have almost four sets of non-adjusts' pushrods if anyone needs...)

have fun

 

[xctasy]

Did you use the 8.920" pushrods?

What rod length did you use.

 

[62Ranchero200]

Did you use the 8.920" pushrods?

What rod length did you use.

I ended up ordering 8 13/16" (8.8125") pushrods from Smith Brothers. These are 1/2" shorter than "stock length" pushrods. I think I could have made slightly longer pushrods work, maybe up to 9".

The "stock length" CI cup and ball pushrods were 9 5/16", and the -1/8" CI cup and ball pushrods would have been 9 3/16" (3/8" longer than the Smith Brothers pushrods), definitely too long for the style of adjustable rocker arm that I have. Haven't finished adjusting valves because my battery died and I have to replace it so that I can bump the engine over ... can't get to the harmonic balancer bolt now that the fan is installed.

Thanks
Bob

 

[xctasy]

Thanks, that is what I thought 62Ranchero200. The Aussie 8.920" pushrod will be in a block 89 thou taller, but the cam is well over 107 taller in the block.


Same issues with my early head on the later block, the earlier Aussie pushrods from my adjustable valve train Aussie 1966 XR Falcon Super Pursuit 200 were too long for my later US 200 engine too. Look at the US ball and ball verses the Aussie ball and cup

From your post, which one is the Smith pushrod? The one on the left looks a lot like like my adjustable valve train Aussie 250 8.920" pushrod, but it is just 107.5 thou different.

The difference in the oil pump drive length is 393 verses 500 thou. That is 107 thou, which is how much taller than the US 250 cam is in the block verses the Aussie 250.

 

[62Ranchero200]

Thanks, that is what I thought 62Ranchero200. The Aussie 8.920" pushrod will be in a block 89 thou taller, but the cam is well over 107 taller in the block.


Same issues with my early head on the later block, the earlier Aussie pushrods from my adjustable valve train Aussie 1966 XR Falcon Super Pursuit 200 were too long for my later US 200 engine too. Look at the US ball and ball verses the Aussie ball and cup

From your post, which one is the Smith pushrod? The one on the left looks a lot like like my adjustable valve train Aussie 250 8.920" pushrod, but it is just 107.5 thou different.

The difference in the oil pump drive length is 393 verses 500 thou. That is 107 thou, which is how much taller than the US 250 cam is in the block verses the Aussie 250.

The pushrod on the left is the Smith Brothers, on the right is the CI pushrod. Sorry that I forgot to specify.

Bob

 

[Econoline]

Based on my measurements I'm surprised the CI pushrods or -1/8 won't work. Looked like they should have been within the adjustment range.