Are you an "experienced" member in Colorado Springs?

[caferace]

It's probably a long shot, but this has got to be the best place to ask.

I would like to find a local that has some time to work with me on an installation project, that has experience with these motors.
Looking for somebody that has been "experienced" with these motors and mods and doesn't charge both arms and a leg.

I've got a running 200 with a rebuilt 1100 and Loadomatic with Pertronix in a 65 Mustang that I want to install the following in:

250-2V Aussie head and intake (uses standard 200 head gasket...right?)
Adjustable rocker arm assembly for the OZ head (taken from a 170, I think)
HEI distributor (simplest 1-wire wiring - maybe through a relay)
Autolite 2100/2150 - probably a 1.02 maybe a 1.08 venturi flowing 250-275 cfm...I'm hearing less carb is more at my elevation.
Cabled Accelerator pedal

Been reading the forums and classicinlines for a long time, but don't want to screw up with things like:
pushrod lengths and rocker arm assembly
decking/milling/cc'ing - necessary or just bolt that sucker on?
carb jetting for 6500 feet elevation
wiring

I feel a little lame asking for help here, but in the words of the great Lyle Lovett " What would you be if you didn't even try? So...please...please, if it's NOT too late...make mine a...cheeseburger."

Thanks guys,

Ed

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

That was one of the most Intelligent posts I have read , But sadly I am in Pa and I would have loved to help , again the smart person asks , not goes blindly forward, I will gladly reply to any PM's , good luck with your project

 

[170-3tree]

Also! Any questions you have might be found answered in the stickies section. No, it's not someone there to help you out hands on, but there are several people here that can answer your questions well enough to make you confident in moving forward with your planned upgrades and more!

You've got a great plan going, the key to achieving the goal is to move one step at a time and don't hesitate to stop and ask if you're not sure of where you're at.

 

[rbohm]

8) ed, ask any questions you have, we are more than happy to answer them. if you have a question you dont want to ask on the open forums, go ahead and pm me, and i will do my best to answer any you have.

 

[caferace]

Thanks guys...I really appreciate the offers for help in answering questions and being a sounding board. I know I'll feel better if I do it myself, I just don't want to get to that chronic non-running stage that happens with some projects, and I have little tuning experience...and there's so much info that sometimes conflicts...and...

I'll keep throwing out some specific questions here then and see what develops...I've gotta be making this more complicated then it is.



First - My understanding is that putting in a duraspark or HEI is a requirement when swapping out the carb...I could do that first - I'm looking at the cheaper HEI distributor (but still 3 times as expensive as V8 parts at $159) brands on ebay/amazon, etc (part # JM6527) - the Duraspark is probably a good reliable way to go, but the HEI sounds pretty reliable and definitely easier to wire, but I'm not sure whether to (or how to) wire in a relay or go to the ignition switch and remove the pink resistance wire, etc. Once I do that, it sounded like I might be able to run the Autolite 1100 to a manifold vacuum source, but that could be bad information? I see where the plug is on the log that can accept a nipple (I saw it on the 170 that the rocker arms came from)

Second - I'm looking at at $65 1963 Motorcraft 2100 with the 1.02 venturis on Craigslist - possibly rebuilt years ago and never used...or we've got a local that specializes in Motorcraft 2100/2150 carbs here in the area that does a booming business selling them for Jeeps - he'll get it setup with a 1.08, correct jetting, electric choke for about $300...more of a no-brainer with him, I guess (Gronk is the guy's handle in the inter webs)

My research at ClassicInlines tells me that a stock 200 lower end with a stock 250-2V head will flow between 250 - 275 CFM and that the 1.02 carb will flow 245 CFM and the 1.08 flows 287 CFM - is smaller better for my elevation at 6500 feet and goal of torque vs top end speed?

Opinions?

My goal is seat of the pants torque, easy starting and basic street driving...through mountain canyons ;-)

Third - I have the 250-2V head, intake manifold and gaskets and holley/autolite/motorcraft adapter. I just purchased a set of used adjustable rocker arms from another guy nearby...he recommended that I clean them really well and then re-assemble with break-in oil or moly....then when measuring the pushrods, sounds like I would need to get ball and cup pushrods an adjustable pushrod, then , and measuring the ball and cups would require using a 5/16" steel ball in the cup?

The whole setting valve lash with feeler gauges while juggling a mythical 5/16" steel ball on the cup of a pushrod sounds like a dark art to me... screwing it up and risking ruining the 250-2V unobtainium head sounds worse

Questions:
I have my old 200 on the engine stand - it smoked like a mosquito fogger, but ran like a top, with quiet lifters. Should I use the fixed rocker assembly and pushrods out of it instead? I figure i can use that 200 as a test for some of these things to edumacate myself too.

I feel like Mike Meyers on SNL...doing coffee talk in a brooklyn accent...."discuss!"

Thanks again!

Ed
1965 200ci Mustang Fastback

 

[rbohm]

8) well to start, check this out;

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0334

at less than $60 including a core charge. this is a much better deal than from evilbay. the one i linked to if for a 77 maverick with the 3.3l six.

grab the used carb for $65 and rebuild it yourself, they are not difficult to do. the 2100 autolite is one of the simplest carbs to rebuild in fact.

and by all means do the two barrel conversion, you wont be disappointed, i recommend the direct mount set up for best results. i used an adapter and while ti did well, it could have been better.

 

[170-3tree]

Robhm. He had a 2v alloy head already. I think that either carb will do for you for flow ability. I'd go with the bigger though.

The distributor is purely your choice, I'm a fan of my hei unit after falcon sedan delivery reworked out for me, but I started with that being my only option on my first engine. Duraspark is also a great upgrade, but as you said more wiring. If you bought everything new for either one, the price isn't that different between the two. But duraspark can be had cheaper using salvage parts. Either way have them recurved, it will save a lot of trouble in the end.

 

[thesameguy]

Hi Ed:

I don't know that this will get you anywhere, but you might swing by Pike's Peak Motors there in Coolerado Springs. Years ago I bought a sweet '67 Fleetwood from them, and had "their shop" (don't know who - but a place they work with) do a bunch of prep work on the car before driving it back to California. They did good work at a good price, and it might be worth a conversation.

 

[82F100]

Hi, you might trying calling Lou Becker who is head of the High Plains Chapter of Inliners International.His number is 303 443 8185.He may know someone in the chapter who is a Ford guy or know some one who might be able to help you. Also our convention will be in Colorado Springs next year June 30th-July 4th. You just might see a bunch of Inlines runnin around town then

 

[Invectivus]

Soooo...on the dizzy, I have an HEI on my bronco, and they're pretty easy, but pricy. I have a DS2 for my mustang, and time/complexity/inexperience has kept me from installing it so far. I hate making assumptions, but if you have a fastback with those rims, and an Oz head, I don't think you'll have an issue spending the cash on the HEI, and easy is good.

For the rockers, it's my understanding that the adjustable variety can both make up for a certain amount of block/head milling, as well as limit the effects of over pumping the lifters at higher RPMs. The PO of my mustang engine put them on, but the Install should be easy. As far as measuring for pushrods lengths, that could be a more complex issue. I read someplace that depending on where you have the base for the cup adjusted, it can affect open/close rates and lift, as you are effectively changing the rocker geometry. I haven't seen an analysis on stock adjustibles for the ford six, so I don't know the ramifications and sweet spots. My reference was also a race site, so the net effect may be really negligible on a street engine.

For your head, you should be good with checking flatness of the block and intake mount surfaces, and have them true'd up if there is warpage. However, if you're going through all this work on your head/carb/ignition, it would pay dividens to properly map out your compression by measuring everything and calculating both static and dynamic. To be honest, I find that intimidating, but I bet someone here can make it sound easy. The falcon six handbook has a pretty good write up, I suggest you pick it up if you haven't yet. Make sure to take your altitude ranges into consideration, I think that matters. That being said, I'd be surprised if you couldn't just bolt it on and run it. But investing now pays dividends for years, both in reliability and the seat of your pants.

 

[caferace]

Thanks again guys...all good input. I didn't even know about the International Inliners group. I'll try to give Lou a shout.

Interesting story about the fastback and wheels...I had bought a sweet little high-mileage 2000 BMW 323ci E46 coupe a couple years ago with those 17" wheels for about $4,000, and although the Beemer needed work too often, I loved the way that thing drove...unfortunately, I barely got out of the way of a Chevy Silverado coming at me head-on...when the dust settled, their insurance company handed over $7100 for my $4000 car...a few days later Denver Craigslist posted this fastback for $6900...I figured it was fate ;-)

Even at that relatively decent price for a fastback, that one sitting in the driveway is the most expensive car I have right now. Those are the bimmers wheels on 4x114.2 to 5x120mm adapters. Since I had 7 BMW wheels, it was worth the $300 in adapters.

Been a project ever since...when the 200 inline that came in the car started smoking, I found a hot rod builder in Pueblo that had a good running one, so I trailered down and we spent a couple of days doing the swap and throwing in a new clutch and the 6-into-1 headers. I had a 250 head that I bought and a weber, but again Denver Craigslist to the rescue...a guy sold me his Aussie head a couple of weeks ago, and I sold the 250 head and Weber.

So now...there's snow all over the car...I think my 1905 garage used to house a single horse...luckily the sun comes out again soon.

Cheers!

 

[woodbutcher]

Hi Invectivus.Just get the wiring diagram for your car,and the diagram for the DS2 box.do a little studying of both,and it should be pretty much self explanitory.I did the conversion on my `74 F100 with a 302,and from start to first drive was only about 2 hours.AND,I sure ain`t no"Wizard of Menlo Park"when it comes to wiring.
Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

[caferace]

I took the stock head off the 200 yesterday and test fitted the OZ head and the stock fixed rocker arms. I bought a used dirty set of adjustable rockers that I think I'll clean up and use instead...figuring out the pushrod length is still going to be tricky for me...I guess with adjustables, there's a little bit of leeway in the length of the pushrod

 

[bubba22349]

Or you could get an adjustable push rod to dial in the length you will need and have some made to order.

 

[caferace]

Yep...that seems to be the recommended method...just not sure how to do it. Read the stuff on ClassicInlines...not clear enough for me...

 

[bubba22349]

Roughly you want the length of the push rod set so as the geometry or ark of travel stays near the centerline of the valve stem this gives the most lift and also keeps the valve guides from wearing as much. when the rocker is at the mid point of lift its centered on the valve (centerline) during the ark of its travel it will move a bit past center in each direction. Use a sharpe or machinist blue to help you lay it out and see the travel. Good luck

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

Gentleman , you are not going to change geometry on a shaft mount system by using different length push rods , only by shortening or raising the stands will that change, you need to get proper preload ( if its a Nonadjustable Hyd setup ) and if its an adjustable system the adjuster needs to be in the correct spot , so as to still be usable with the pushrod length chosen

 

[caferace]

When I mocked it up on the stand a couple of days ago, it looked like the spacing between the rocker arms (with the springs in-between) was just a little off, so that I would expect some extra wear on one side or another...I'll take a closer look and report back.

I also noticed that the 170ci adjustable rocker has a little plate that goes over an oil passage at the rear (cylinder 6?) that the stock 200ci fixed rocker doesn't have...not sure what to do with that either...I'll try to get a picture of that...it's like a hinged flap that might redirect or stop the flow from the oil passage, I'm making some assumptions here, but it looks like something to be careful of...I think some pics might be in order...got some sub-zero weather possible rolling through this week, so it may be a few days

Thanks again for the replies...they do be helpin'

Ed