Autolite 2100, what size venturi?

I've been researching this topic all morning, and most sources are saying to abandon ported vacuum as a '70s emissions gimmick and go for manifold vacuum. But, those are also mostly generic sources aimed at the GM crowd.

This subject comes up from time to time and there are a couple different views. First on the ported vacuum only being a '70s emissions gimmick, :shock: that sure is a load of BS. Ported vac. was used long before the Smog emissions era. :hmmm: Next to make the right choice what is the planed use of your car? If it's a race apt. than you don't even really need a vac. advance! A vac. advance was designed to give the best driveableity and economy for a streetcar. It takes some different tuning methods and skills to make the right mods for the system to work correctly. The only way to know if you like one way or an other is to try them all. :thumbup: Lastly will throw in my .02 that if it’s for a street car that's a D.D. and you expected to get reasonable street performance, have an interest in the best MPG I would want use a ported vac. source if it was there. :nod:
 
I apologize for re-asking an old question. Still, I’d like to understand it better, and re-reading old posts isn’t always the best way to do that. I hope you’ll keep in conversation with me.

bubba22349":bayymfvp said:
This subject comes up from time to time and there are a couple different views. First on the ported vacuum only being a '70s emissions gimmick, :shock: that sure is a load of BS. Ported vac. was used long before the Smog emissions era. :hmmm:

I checked Google Patent, and found patent number 3400698, dated December 22, 1966. It appears to be for ported vacuum. I also checked its references to prior art, and found a 1957 patent (2809620) for a vacuum advance/retard mechanism designed to get the car to warm up faster.

According to the 1966 patent, the faster warm up is desireable to reduce NOx; a major component of smog. Efforts to reduce smog in the LA Basin date back to at least the early 1950s, IIRC.

So what’s the non-emissions advantage to ported vacuum? Just the faster warm up on a driver? That’s what I’m trying to understand.

Next to make the right choice what is the planed use of your car? If it's a race apt. than you don't even really need a vac. advance! A vac. advance was designed to give the best driveableity and economy for a streetcar.

This is definitely a street car. No racing intended. I’ll do it the factory way if that’s the best way, I just want to understand why the factory did it and if anything in the intervening 43 years has shown they should have done it differently.

It takes some different tuning methods and skills to make the right mods for the system to work correctly. The only way to know if you like one way or an other is to try them all. :thumbup:

I’m definitely not happy with the way its running right now. I’m not sure that can entirely be blamed on the ported vacuum or not, but it seems the thermostatically controlled switch for going between ported and manifold vacuum was never installed when the late engine was put in my early bird, so maybe that’s part of it.

Lastly will throw in my .02 that if it’s for a street car that's a D.D. and you expected to get reasonable street performance, have an interest in the best MPG I would want use a ported vac. source if it was there. :nod:

Does running hotter yield better fuel economy? Obviously a cold engine won’t vaporize fuel very well, but as I recall most of the ‘50s and ‘60s engines that survived into the 1970s and 1980s suffered a serious fuel economy hit because of the first-generation emissions gear they had to wear. I thought some of this was due to the increased operating temperature.

I’d love to know more about ported vacuum. If there are some threads that explain why to use it, I’m interested to read them. All I’ve seen so far really seem to advocate its use because it’s how the distributor is already set up, and switching to manifold vacuum brings the advance in perhaps earlier than is desirable.

-Dave
 
No problem. First off need to find out the year of the engine and also other parts that you are using i.e. like year of distrib and carb, if you mixing and matching etc. As your pat. search shows lots of variables so they need to be matched. Also we have not touched the centrifugal advance yet and there are differences in the type that between early Ford sixes LOD suitable for a restored org. and 1966 up Calif. (much better) and DSII from smog era distrib's but yet is the best of the Ford distrib. But if you are building a mild or performance engine they can all use some work on advance curve too. Than we can also add aftermarket parts in combo or replace it all like with the DUI.
 
Finally, got her on the road thanks to Mike and his diligence in getting me pushrods that fit.

I'm running ported vacuum. At idle there's no measurable vacuum from the vacuum port off the carburetor, so I'm running at 14* initial timing. She was idling very rough but I managed to smooth her out by adjusting the fuel level. Too low a fuel level and i had the idle adjustment screws out 3-4 turns. Down to 2 turns and idling much better once I gave her more fuel! Still can be a bit better, so I'll be messing with the fuel level in the float bowl some more. As far as the 1.08 Autolite goes, it's got very nice throttle response, no hesitation or pinging what so ever and running off of 91 octane E10. The AOD makes for great crusing on the freeway 70mph+ The 112* lobe seperation might has something to do with that as well; actually, it is producing a lot of good useable vacuum at idle measured at manifold vacuum. And the DSII from Performance Distributors @ classicinlines.com is a sweet addition, no doubt!!! Now comes the fine tuning, rebuilding of a larger 1.14 venturi carb and if budget allows some dyno time.

Compared to the original 200/C4 with 3.25 one legger... wow what a difference!!!
 
:beer: sounds like a nice combo :thumbup: On the Autolite"s and Motorcraft carbs usally it's better to set it to the wet float level. If you can it's best to use a tach to set idle mix and idle RPM if you don't have one many times about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 out is real close
 
I used a vacuum gauge that is unfortunately not accurate anymore, but I aimed for the highest reading. Used a digital tach on the back of my timing light, which works ok. I did do the float level wet that's getting easier to do with a smoother idle.
 
jahearne, it appears I have hijacked your thread. I apologize, I thought it was defunct when I first posted. I'm glad to hear things are working out well for you.

If I might finish up my earlier thoughts, I think I may finally be catching on to this. Ported vacuum acts almost the opposite of manifold vacuum, doesn’t it? Manifold vacuum is at its greatest at idle, when the throttle plate is entirely shut; ported vacuum is completely absent. Manifold vacuum drops to nearly zero under load, but ported vacuum would still be present due to the venturi effect in the carburetor (and presumably an engine under load is sucking air through the carburetor at its greatest velocity). At cruise, however, the two should be nearly the same.

Thus, what seems to make sense to me, is that GM must have used a vacuum retard on their distributors - pulling the timing back at idle and cruise, but allowing full advance under hard acceleration. Ford, on the other hand, used a true vacuum advance. Ported vacuum, then, would be used to avoid any advance at idle (allowing a leaner mixture there - and providing the fuel economy bubba22349 referenced); but would provide advance during acceleration and at cruise, where it is needed.

Switching a Ford vacuum-advance distributor to manifold vacuum would provide advance at idle, where it’s not really desirable except for cooler running; provide less advance under load, where it is needed; and provide the same advance at cruise, making us think something else was wrong when the car didn’t accelerate well!

So, do I have this right? I’m learning it’s tough to be a Ford lover in a GM world.

-Dave
 
No worries! it's all related... carbs, vacuum, timing. I think you got it.

Well, my tranny took a dump over the weekend. It was a $100 core, but it could have worked longer if I took the time out to properly re-adjust the tv cable after my throttle linkage broke. GOT AOD?
 
Howdy All:

Dave asked- "do I have this right?"

Almost. Both system reduce advance under load. That's where pre-ignition is most likely to occur. WIth manifold vacuum advance almost disappears under load. With a ported source it is only slightly more than manifold vacuum. With LoM and ported vacuum it is good to use an additional 5 degrees of initial advance in most situations.

Adios, David
 
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