Benefits of Replacing 170 with a 200

[Anonymous]

I have the opportunity to get a free 200. What are the benefits of taking out my 170 and replacing with the 200? Is it worth the time and money because I would be paying a mechanic for the labor. I am just about to start building up my 170 but I could do the same to the 200, new carb, dizzy, exhaust and maybe a rebuild on the 200. Would you swap out a 170 for a 200?

Doesnt a 200 fit the same mounts as a 170? Same with fitting the tranny and whatever else might change? Also, what is the model lineage 140>170>200....does it end at the 200 ( I think I read that all 3 engines are the same, they would all fit the same motor mounts or something like that)

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

The lineage is 144- 1960-64, 170 1963-72, 200- 1963 - 83, 250 - 1969 - 80.

The obvious advantage of the 200 is 30 more cubic inches of displacement. Depending on years of each engine, the 170 could be a 4 or seven main bottom, most 200s after '65 are seven mains.

It would be most helpful if you were more specific. What are the casting codes of the block and head of the 170 and the 200? what vehicle is it going into? What transmission?

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

most likely you can just drop the 200 in with no nead to change anything... and the beniftis, more power, more reliable, prolly better economy too

 

[addo]

I'll play cautious. Beware the "Trojan Horse". Make certain the free engine is in good health before installing; otherwise it may cost more than the swap is actually worth to many people.

Stuff I'd budget into a swap: New timing set, repair sleeve for front cover oil seal, skim cut the head and new valve stem seals.

You've got the right idea in terms of paying as little as possible for the motor - but make sure it's worthy of your effort and expense to install.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Mercury Mike]

Don't pay a mechanic! Do it yourself! If you're in the SoCal area I can even help you out.

 

[Lazy JW]

... Is it worth the time and money because I would be paying a mechanic for the labor... Would you swap out a 170 for a 200?...

Nope.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

yeah dont have a mechanic do it

 

[Anonymous]

Lazy JW,

67ORANGE_EB wrote:
... Is it worth the time and money because I would be paying a mechanic for the labor... Would you swap out a 170 for a 200?...


Nope.
Joe

Why do you prefer the 170?

 

[Anonymous]

I am not sure what the engine detail is for the 200 but I have emailed my buddy for the code and year. As far as the 170, it is a 1967 in an EB, the Engine Code is C2DZA, the Bore OS-R. It is running with the original 3 speed, 4WD Dana 30, Dana small bearing 9" rear end, The gear ratio is 4:56. I also asked for a for an update on the condition of the engine, if it was in good condition or not. If its not in good condition, I will drop the idea of swapping.

The only reason I am considering the swap is because it seems the combo of the 170 and the low gears, my EB runs slow on take off, up hills, those acceleration issues combined with a top speed of 65mph makes me want to improve. Initially, as documented in my previous thread, I was just going to add the 1101 carb, new dizzy (hopefully a DUI), and juice up the exhaust with a flowmaster set up. So when the offer of the 200 came up, I thought why not since its supposed to be an easy bolt in swap.

I did not mention that there is a 250 I could have instead of the 200. Before the reply from CZLN6-David, I did not know the 250 would bolt on to the existing mounts. Is that correct, the 250 would swap out just as easy as the 200???? (I assume this becuase its in the same lineage)

I want to keep my EB as original as possible thats why I dropped the idea of adding the 2bbl carb, it would have required that I cut the hood. So my plan is to keep the Classic factor of the '67 while making improvements so its a comfortable daily driver.

 

[Anonymous]

the 250 is slightly longer and taller so you need to make sure you have clearance... also I dont know about bolting it up to your tranny?

 

[Lazy JW]

Lazy JW,

67ORANGE_EB wrote:
... Is it worth the time and money because I would be paying a mechanic for the labor... Would you swap out a 170 for a 200?...


Nope.
Joe

Why do you prefer the 170?

Not that I prefer a 170 but that's a lot of work for only 30 cubic inches. Now, a 250, that's a whole different story. I wasn't paying attention to your signature and didn't notice the Early Bronco significance. A 250 would be worthwhile IMHO. But the details of this swap will certainly add to the expense of having someone else do the work.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

If the 250 is taller than the 170, then there would definately be clearance issues. Sounded like a good deal but I do not want to cut the hood.

I found out the 200 is from '72 and just rebuilt, it never was re-installed. I havent received the engine code for the 200.

Thanks for the offer to help, it is appreciated, but I live about 30 miles north of Dallas. I would try it myself but the two things that worry me:

1. Re-attaching to the tranny/clutch and drive train. All of the other exhaust, hoses and stuff doesnt worry me, its just the getting it going with the tranny.
2. My HOA prevents me from doing it. Although it would only be a couple of days with my EB being worked on in plain sight, I have only half of my garage and theres always that neighbor who looks for violations. I could rent a storage space for a week or so to take care of that.

Thanks,
mark

 

[Mercury Mike]

I wish I could get out to dallas. That's pretty easy. Just read up on it for a day and get all the information you can, and ask us any questions you have. Even though 30 ci isn't all that much, it will be a great experience for you, and you will be happy with it afterwards either way.

 

[Anonymous]

Cool, Thanks. I am really considering doing it. I would save a nice chunk of change.

 

[Anonymous]

you can do it in one day... just leave all day and have help

 

[jahearne]

Find yourself a place like this in the Dallas area:

http://bayareamotorclub.com/

 

[Hot 6t Falcon]

Howdy EB,

This is the other Schjeldahl brother. This is probably more than you wanted to know, but it should help.

Swapping in the 200 will virtually a bolt-in operation. The 250 may be more complicated, depending on the replacement engine.

Since you have a '67, you SHOULD have the 3.03 three speed std tranny. That will bolt to the 250 bell housing. BUT (don't you hate big BUTs) if the 250 doesn't have the std trans bellhousing AND flywheel - they are VERY hard to find. You CANNOT use the 200 bell, flywheel, or water pump on the 250. They have different bolt patterns.

The 250 is about 3/4 wider at the engine mounts, but you can just redrill the holes in the mounts to make them work. The 250 is about 1 inch taller. Can one inch be a problem? The 250 engine itself is NOT longer, BUT (another one) the water pump IS slightly longer - making the overall length about 1 1/2 inches more. There is NO substitute for cubic inches for pulling power. My brother has a 250 in his ranchero and I have a 200. His pulls because it has torque. Mine Pulls because it revs to six grand in a wink. Pick you poison - bith work.

The '72 200 is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over your 170. You get 7 main bearings, a much bigger intake log, provision for a larger carb, the ability to bolt in a DSII (your 170 work need LOTS of modification to do that).

The 200 is a direct swap. If you have not done engine swaps before, this is a GREAT learning step. You may have to use the 170 water pump, oil pan, and oil pump pickup tube. The 170 bell housing and flywheel will bolt right on to the 200 (use a torque wrench). Compare the exhaust manifolds. On non-EBs the 170 is MUCH smaller in volume and header pipe size. Use the '72 200 exhaust manifold even though you'll have to make a new exhaust pipe to the later flange.

One more BUT. You said, "my EB runs slow on take off, up hills, those acceleration issues combined with a top speed of 65mph makes me want to improve." The 200 or the 250 will help all of these BUT the 65 mph top speed. That is a result of the 4.56 gear and your tire size. The only solution there is to rev the engine higher, OR change the gears, OR put on taller tires OR all three.

My personal thought on "originaly" - store the "orginal" 170 in case you sell the EB and the new owner wants "original". Put the two barrel on the 200. Don't use an adapter, but rather do the manifold modification as we suggest in our book. (do a search here on the forum for a how to or buy the "book")

If the 250 is also free, get it too. Then you can drive your EB with the 200 as is, while the 250 head is being modified for a 2 barrel and milled off big time for some additional compression. What year is the 250 and its head? Does it have a DSII? Does it have a bell and flywheel? Does it have a barb you could use on the 200? You get the picture.

Good Luck

 

[Anonymous]

You guys are great; I did not know there was a place like that to work on your vehicle. I will ask around.

Dennis, WOW. Thanks for that information; I appreciate you taking the time to do it. I will go with the 200 as I do not have the time, patience, nerves or money to get too deep in modifications. You provided answers to questions that I did not get around to asking.

I am now excited about the swap, if I can really modify the manifold for a 2bbl instead of using the adapter, that coupled with the fact I will be changing gears before the engine swap, the EB will run like a completely different vehicle.

As far as the book, I will definitely be buying it to find out how to do the modification. As far as clearance, there is only an inch or two, so I might have to go with a low profile 2bbl.

As far as the 250 engine is concerned, I only get to choose one; somebody else gets the other one.

Many Thanks!!!!

 

[jamyers]

I say go for it! I did the 170-to-200 swap awhile back, and love it. While it's "only" 30 more cid, the additional torque allowed be to go to a WAY taller rear tire and raise my effective rear axle ratio from 3.20 to 3.0, cutting down on highway rpm. I've got more get-up-and-go, the same if not better gas mileage, and the engine should last longer due to lower rpms.

Hooking the engine to the tranny is simple, just get one of those $2.00 clutch plate alignment tools from AutoZone or wherever.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a 200 in my '74 EB, Added a super coil, Pertronix, and flomaster dual exhaust. I'm running 4.11 gears with 30x9.50-15 a/t's. I have spun the tires takeing off and barked them in second. I am quite pleased with it, and I figure somewhere close to 20mpg. I would say you wont be dissappointed compared to the 170. Good luck! -David