brnt exhaust valve or blwn headgasket or neither??

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Ahoy fellows. I've a 60 Falcon with the 144 ci engine therein. It is the only car I own and so is a daily driver and as far as I know all stock. My problem is extremely rough running. This problem developed with no warning in the middle of a 3 hour drive. At highway speed it seemed to run normal and fine but as soon as I would slow down at all I noticed a shuddering and a distinct loss in power as though a cylinder had fouled. I even pulled over and checked all spark plugs but the problem was not there. I have ruled out ignition as the problem.

I performed a compression check on the engine and performed it incorrectly, but even incorrectly it became obvious that the number 5 cylinder is the culprit as it had notably lower reading than the others, but it also seemed to affect the cylinders on either side of it, though not too much.

This is the second forum I have asked advice on. I have been told that these 144 engines typically blow the headgasket between cylinders rather than into the coolant passage. This would make sense as it exhibits none of the typical blown headgasket coolant problems. I have no white smoke, I have no coolant in the oil, no oil in coolant, no exhaust blowing through radiator, and the car does not and never did overheat. I am still able to drive the car, technically, but it is running extremely rough and with zero power and it shakes quite a bit.

Now I wish to state that I am an only intermediate mechanic. I have always been able to fix what problems my vehicles throw at me but I have never torn deep into an engine before. Also I am merely a guy living in an apartment and driving a 47 year old car; I do not have a full shop of tools and torches and compressors and gauges at my disposal. Also presently I am very broke and cannot, even if necessary, afford to take this into a shop. I mention this only because on other boards I routinely get advice which is wholly impractical for me to attempt to implement either because it is beyond the scope of the tools I have ("you need to pull the engine and take your acetylene torch and impact wrench and...."), or beyond the scope of the money I have at my disposal ("if I was you I'd just pull the head off and take it to a machine shop, and while you're there you might as well have them do a complete valve job and mill the heads as well...").

Essentially I feel confident I could fix a headgasket, and afford one; but I could not fix a blown exhaust valve myself. I wonder if anyone on this board might be able to give me advice on whittling down which, or what, this problem sounds like? I can run the car, it runs like crap and once in a while get a little backfire from the carb. I do get the chuff-chuffing sound from the exhaust and I also get a sort of hissing sound from under the hood, almost like a vacuum leak but I have checked everywhere for a vacuum leak and found nothing. My money is on either a burnt exhaust valve or the headgasket blown between cylinders. But I am no professional.

I realize this post is erratic and tough to decipher, am sorry for that. I have been fiddling with this car for around 2 weeks now and can't get anywhere with it. Is there any way, aside from a leakdown test, to discern for sure if it's a valve problem? If I try pulling the head off to check the headgasket, and the gasket turns out fine, have I just ruined that gasket by breaking the seal? I don't know what to do and am frustrated to point now where I may rather simply roll the car into the lake and take up the bicycle. Well thanks for anyone who tries to respond, and sorry so long.
 
Sounds like it's time to remove the head and take a first hand glance. My bet is just a gasket. This happened to me last month. However when the head was pulled, it was advised to rebuild it as it was on its way out. I didn't want to have to pull it again only months later so I sucked it up and rebuilt it at the same time.
So the $10 blown gasket ended up costing me $944! Granted, I didn't do any of the work myself. If you do need a head rebuild, I say check ebay and this board. I see them being sold for less than $200.
 
If you want to do this the cheapest possible, go buy yourself a head gasket and rent from the parts store a torque wrench and pull it off. The tool rental money you get back when you return the wrench, and the most you will be out is a head gasket.

Tear it apart, put the new gasket in, bolt it all back together and report back to us how it's running. If it is a valve (and I doubt that it is) you will see it when you have it apart and you could get by with only replacing that valve, not ideal but if budget demands cheap you can get back on the road for minimal cash outlay.

-ron
 
I was working off his almost zero$ budget. It would be a perfect time to grind the valves but if time and money are issues it's cheaper to replace and pray.

-ron
 
8) ok since you have a low compression reading in cylinder #5 that also affects 4 and 6, it is likely that you have a bad head gasket. that said however, a compression check isnt the best way to diagnose a problem like this, as you might have two problems, a bad head gasket and a bad valve. a cylinder leak down test would be the best test to decide what needs done. since you have a small budget, try having the local high school auto shop help with the diagnosis. they work real cheap since you dont have to pay labor, and they get to learn by doing the real thing.

that said, the head gasket is bad, and replacement is easy. when you have the head off, check the combustion chambers over very carefully, especially #5 and see if the valves are damaged at all.
 
BC, you are going to have to pull the head regardless, but what is the compression reading on #5 cylinder???

Next put 100 + # of air pressure in that cylinder of course with both valves closed. You will find out real fast where the problem is, just see where the air comes out, the exhaust, intake, cooling system or out of the crankcase.

The X factor is a broken valve spring where you pass a compression test, but have a dead miss when running.

Let us know what you find, Bill
 
First off, where are you located? Someone on this board may be able to help you out.

Secondly - I understand the no money situation, so I can speak from that perspective.

Before you tear anything apart, we need to know a little more information. Compression test the car again and do it correctly. How much lower was #5? was it like 30 psi ? or was it like 140 when the others were 160 ?

Doing the compressed air trick is really useful, but since you don't have a compressor sorta moot.

If you determine that the compression is down on #5 a significant amount, then the head does need to come off regardless (excepting broken valve spring, which you would see when you remove the valve cover).

So, remove the VC and check to see if that is the case. If not - pull the head. If the headgasket is blown it will be obvious. If it's not - then your bent or burnt valve is possible. You can check this by turning the head upside down and filling the chamber with water - and see if it leaks out.

If it does (and leaks out a lot - some small leakage is normal) then you will need to remove that valve. It's not a big deal to replace a valve or grind it and can be done w/ basic tools.

but first do another comp test and let's establish if you really have to pull the head after all.

Let us know...
 
Thanks for all the info folks. I am indeed in Austin TX. When I did the compression test (never did one before) I was all the help I had, and couldn't hold a gauge under the hood and crank engine at same time. Also may have been a bit confused as to how a proper comp test was performed. Anyway the screwed way I did it was to take out one plug, screw in the gauge hose, then start the car. I would get out and plug the gauge onto the end of the hose and take the reading with engine running, then shut off the car, replace the plug, then move to the next cylinder. On another board I got advice that my readings seemed low all around, but I'm sure it was just the jacked way I did the test (didn't mention I did test wrong). The readings were right around 100-110psi for the first 3 cylinders, then #4 was around 80, #5 around 40, and #6 was around 80-90. I only did it once, in the parking lot of the parts store where I borrowed the gauge; didn't do a wet test or anything. I don't know how much the wrong method I used affects the readings, but that's how I did it. I figure wrong method or no, #5 is the problem.

I'm glad to hear the opinion that it's the headgasket. I can probably swing the cost of a gasket. I've never pulled the head off before and could use a bit of advice on that. First, I'm seeing two parts for a headgasket on the online parts store (just using autozone or advance auto); the single headgasket is around 22 dollars, but there is also a headgasket "set", with what looks like way more stuff, for 50 dollars. Both Fel-pro. Which do I need? Also, when pulling the head off will I need other gaskets for all the stuff that comes off first? Like the carb? Or is it possible to pull the head off without removing the carb? If I could get a step by step of the easiest way to pull the head off that would help greatly. Also, if I pull the head and discover it's not the headgasket after all, is the gasket ruined anyway by pulling the head?

Otherwise, to address more of the above advice, I can't take the car to a local high school as I don't know which ones have the auto shop class around here, in fact can't even call to mind where a high school is in this town, and am somewhat of a recluse and that would be more necessary human interaction than I would be comfortable with. I can't do the air test to see where the air is leaking out as I don't have access to an air compressor. I have pulled the valve cover off to check springs and all, and I can see nothing wrong on the top end. I ran the car with the cover off for a while and everything looks ship shape and working as it should. I don't know if I will be able to get a correct compression test done as I have only myself to work with and don't know who would crank the thing while I am under the hood with the gauge. Bort62, I don't know what you mean by turning the head upside down and filling with water. I am hoping for the headgasket being bad though so will address that if it's not.

Having a simply stated step by step on pulling the head off will help me a lot, if anyone can type out such a thing. I'd like to ask what to look for regarding a bad valve once the head is off (to tell if it's bad or not), but one thing at a time.

The funny thing is that I spend most of my time drinking in a bar here which is a hangout for tons of car types, hotrot people and such; and I am sure I know several people who have access to full auto shops and tools and all that, as well as the knowhow to diagnose anything wrong with a car, but I am too bashful to ask. Go figure. Anyway thanks for all the help so far everyone.
 
Alright. Hooooooold on now! You did WHAT for a compression test?! That's awesome! Hah! Anyways... Compression test. You need two guys. Disconnect the coil wire so the engine doesn't start. Pull ALL of the plugs. Screw the wire, connected to the gauge, into the first hole. Put your foot all the way to the floor on the gas so you have no restriction in the intake, and while guy #1 holds the tester, guy #2 turns the key. That will give you your reads. Write them down, they'll be useful later.

For pulling the head, I will try to direct you to another post where I explained it... give me a few! =)

-Mike
 
LOL yeah I don't think you can take a whole lot from that compression test you described...

And mike - why do you need two guys? the compression tester I bought from summit for FIVE DOLLARS (and every other one I have seen) has a check valve. Screw it into the plug hole, go crank the motor over 4-5 times, come back and see what the gauge reads.

The head is easy, but it is heavy - and it is a lot easier for two people (especially for the inexperienced)

Putting it on solo is a great way to destroy a brand new headgasket.
 
If you use studs (cut the head off some head bolts, and saw a screwdriver tip into it for a big flathead so you can screw it out of the head after you put it in) you can slide the head on easily over the gasket, solo, without damaging a thing!

And I like havin' two guys, 'cause I always like to have a buddy workin' with me. Good time to hang out. Plus then he can yell over me crankin' the engine and such. Good times!
 
My compression tester must be really old. It has a rubber plug on the end of it instead of threads. I have to push it into the spark plug hole while someone cranks the ignition 5-6 times. :?
 
Thanks for the tips all. Mr. Wilhelmus, any luck locating the other post for a how-to on pulling the head easy?
 
Don't put the new head gasket upside down AND back to front... Then torque up all the head bolts.... Then put the rocker cover back on forgetting all of the rockers&pushrods.......

Don't ask me how I know :cry:

Measure twice cut once as they say...
 
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