Cam installation

[ArtemisI6]

I purchased a Clay Smith cam from Classic Inlines for my girlfriend several months ago as a Christmas gift, and finally her and I went to install it in her new 200ci last night. However, I noticed some issues...


I didn't receive a new cam dowel with the cam. It's not in the cam and it wasn't in the box. Am I supposed to pull the one out of the old cam? I couldn't get that freaking thing to budge even a tiny bit. Should I be afraid of marring it up at all? I was using vice grips and they didn't leave any marks but I want to check with the more experienced just in case.

What do I do for a spacer? The stock spacer is stuck on the old cam, and if I can't get that dowel out I won't be able to get the spacer off intact.

Does anything go in the two holes at the rear of the cam? Or does that end just butt against the freeze plug that I currently don't have in the motor?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[bubba22349]

Most times the cam dowel and spacer would be removed from the old cam and reinstalled on the new. I have never seen these parts supplied with a new cam about your only other chose would be to buy new ones. It’s has a slight interference fit and is also probably gummed up by sludge you might try spraying some cleaner to penetrate and desolve the sludge let it soak in good on the old cam (or you can have it hot tanked at you mach shop), vice grips or a slide hammer if you have the way to clamp on to it. If the old cam was warmed up too it might also help in removeal. Nothing goes in the holes at the rear of the cam and it doesn’t butt against the freeze plug the cam is held in its correct position by that front spacer.

 

[Brayab]

I heat cycled the pin with a torch a couple of times (heat then smother it with a wet rag)

I grabbed the pin with a set of end nipper pliers and hit the cam with a dead blow hammer

it came out eventually and I reused it

don't know if this is the right way but it worked for me

good luck

 

[TucsonHooligan]

If you don't care about the old cam, just cut the old dowel pin with an angle grinder and a cutoff wheel so you can get the spacer off. Pretty much any hardware store worth its salt will sell dowel pins, just take the cam with you for a proper fit, its probably a standard size. It's been a bit since I put mine in, but it's probably 1/4, 5/16 or 3/8th's

 

[JackFish]

Shucks, Mike has a bunch of 'em too bad you didn't get one with the cam.
I bought a couple from him for $1 each if I recall correctly.
But pulling one out of an old cam - I don't have a torch so I went to the closest garage and had one of the guys do it. He wasn't going to charge me anything but I gave him a $10 tip anyways.

 

[ArtemisI6]

All right, I'll take the oxyacetylene and see if I can loosen up the one in the stock cam. If I have to I'll just cut it and buy a new one. The one in the stock cam is so stuck that it looked to me like it was machined into the cam, but I knew that wouldn't make sense from a machining standpoint. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't explicitly supposed to get one, and that the old one was actually able to be taken out.

Thanks again guys!

 

[80broncoman]

All right, I'll take the oxyacetylene and see if I can loosen up the one in the stock cam. If I have to I'll just cut it and buy a new one. The one in the stock cam is so stuck that it looked to me like it was machined into the cam, but I knew that wouldn't make sense from a machining standpoint. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't explicitly supposed to get one, and that the old one was actually able to be taken out.

Thanks again guys!

I'd heat the cam and try to not heat the pin. then just when you het the cam good and hot and you are ready to pull on the pin sticjk a ice cube on the end of the pin (to shrink it as much as possible)

 

[ArtemisI6]

Yeah, after countless seized bolts/components and one ring gear installation (not to mention the autobody uses) I'm well versed in the practice of heating/shrinking using a torch.

 

[CobraSix]

It is tight. Try some PB blaster as well.

if that doesn't work, just the pin and remove the spacer. Nothing magical about the dowel pin. Years ago I bought a rod of metal to replace my dowel pin. I've used it most recently replacing shear pins on my snow blower in a pinch (only temporary). Never have too much metal stock in a garage.

Just take the cam in to get the right size like tucson said.

 

[ElTejano]

I just had to do this yesterday. I clamped on come vise grips on the dowell and wiggled it loose. It came out eventually but marred the dowel to hell. But got the spacer out perfect. Luckily I didnt have to torch it.

 

[ArtemisI6]

I did it a couple days ago. Heated it up with the oxyacetylene, doused the pin with PB'laster, and wiggled it around with vice grips. Came out eventually, and didn't even mar the pin. I knocked it into the new cam already and installed the timing gears. Dumb question about the freeze plug I suppose... I see now the thrust plate controls it in one direction and the timing gear holds it in the other. Duh.

Next question: without rods connected, how easily should the crank spin?

 

[bubba22349]

Easy if clearances are right without the rear seal you can spin it by hand and it will keep turning. With a lip seal rear main seal not much difference on the drag, but with a rope seal it's going to have quite a bit of drag.

 

[ArtemisI6]

I have the cam and crank in and connected by the timing chain, no rods in, (don't ask), and all 7 mains installed with a nitrile rear seal. I put the assembly grease on all lobes and journals of the cam, and assembly lube on all surfaces of the crank. There is no valvetrain in the block except for the cam itself. All new bearings, all stock size.

I can turn it by hand but it's difficult (it requires effort using my thumbs alone, if you can use that as a gauge), and it stops as soon as I stop turning it. Is this okay, or no? This my first bottom-end build and I really want this engine to run without dying. If this isn't okay, what are some things I can check? The motor I'm rebuilding only has about 70,000 miles on it.

 

[bubba22349]

Do you have a torque wrench? If so measure how many Ft # of torque it takes to turn it. So is eng. still all standard on crank mains and you used the correct size stand bearings and the main caps in the right order pointing the right direction? Some pictures might help. Start by checking to see which parts cause the friction unhook the cam by pulling the chain the crank should turn easy than try loosening a main cap to see which if any is draging. You could also get some plastic gauge to see what clearance you have on the mains. Did the cam turn easy when you put that in?

 

[ArtemisI6]

I only have a click-type torque wrench, but by figuring out the lowest possible setting that could spin the crank/cam WITHOUT clicking, I'd have to say that it only takes about 9 ft/lbs to get moving, and after that, maybe 5-6 ft/lbs to keep it moving. As soon as I stop spinning it myself, it stops though. I saw a video of someone building a Chevy 402ci (396) and when he put the crank in he spun it and it spun 1-2 revolutions on its own, which is what brought this to my attention. Mine doesn't do that.

Main, Rod, and Cam bearings have all been replaced, all standard size.

Main caps from front to back are 1-2-3-4-T-6 and then the rear main.

The cam turns easier by hand than the crank does, and I believe it even spins a little after you let go, but not much... maybe 1/4 turn at most?



I'll start as you said by removing the chain and loosening each main until I find the cause of the drag... is this sort of thing a common occurrence?

 

[bubba22349]

Sounds like the cam clearance is good. No not usally with a stand motor. Possable one bearing is not right they do get miss packeged but its rare. Good luck

 

[80broncoman]

also remember with it on the stand the crank is sitting on the bearings. when it is running and there is oil pressure the crank sort of floats on the oil away from the bearings.

 

[ArtemisI6]

Hey guys, sorry it took so long to get back to this. As I'm sure you guys know, life gets in the way of projects sometimes.

I just removed the timing chain and loosened all six main caps (testing the ease of crankshaft rotation after loosening each one) to the point of the bolts sitting on top of their holes, and it didn't change the difficulty of spinning the crankshaft one bit. I popped all the caps loose so they were just kind of sitting on the crank and it still doesn't spin any easier. I even lifted the crank up a little out of its bearings and let it back down just in case there was some sort of suction issue, and it STILL doesn't turn any easier. Everything is doused in Royal Purple assembly lube.

I noticed as I loosened the first bolt on each main cap a sucking noise, like a very slight vacuum releasing. Does this mean anything, or would it be considered normal due to the lube everywhere?

The crankshaft isn't VERY difficult to spin... it just takes a little more effort than what I saw with that guy building the 402 V8. I was thinking about it though, and could it be that his spun easier because he had two less mains and a lighter/shorter crank shaft? How easily is the crankshaft in a small 7-main Ford six in this position (nothing connected except mains) supposed to spin?

Like I said, this is my first bottom-end job and I want to be very cautious and make sure this engine doesn't self-destruct. What would you guys do here? Just re-assemble and move ahead? Or start checking things? If the latter, what would you check next? There's really nothing else in the motor right now besides the crankshaft sitting on top of some new bearings. If you guys don't think this is a big enough problem to warrant continued examination, I'd love to move ahead on this motor and get it off my stand and into the car.

 

[wsa111]

You did put the spacer on the camshaft with the inner beveled edge facing the #1 camshaft journal first.
Then you install the dowel.
The dowel pins used to be purchased from Mike, pioneer & sealed power.
I have never found a source for the spacer. Has anyone had sucess?? Bill

 

[ArtemisI6]

Yes, everything on the cam was reinstalled as it was on the old cam. The timing chain isn't on the motor right now though, so that shouldn't really be of concern since my main issue is with the crankshaft... right?