Carb Problems

[phoenix02]

Hello,

I'm new to the inline 6 scene, but have some experience with fords- I had a '68 Galaxie 500 and currently have a '71 Ford F500 w/ 390.

Now, I've never really done much tuning or anything on carbs, but I'm having problems with the 1100 on the new car (1966 Falcon Futura 4 door, inline 200CI). It will start and run with starting fluid, but once it runs through the fluid, it dies. I pulled the fuel line to the carb and cranked and it deffinately has enough fuel getting to it- (actually, I want to put on an inline pressure gauge, as it seems like the pressure is too high to me). I pulled the top cover on the carb, replaced needle and leveled float, Replaced diaphragms in accelerator pump and anti stall pot(?) And replaced the spark advance regulator. I pulled the main jet to replace the needle inside, but the needle isn't moving. Do I need to get pliers and try to pull it out, or shold I just leave it? If I blow through the tube, air definately comes out freely, so it doesn't seem to be blocking anything. THe one that's in it is round while the one that came with the rebuild kit is triangular. Any difference? Also, I kinda turned the body over without removing the weights, so I don't quite know what goes where. I know there's the two balls the same size that go in the holes to the two diaphragms, and there's another In the hole by the spark advance. Now, that's three, and that's what the rebuild kit came with. Is there supposed to be one under the cylindrical weight in the other hole, or is that just the weight? In the rebuild kit, the balls where all the same size, whereas the balls that came out, 1 was smaller than the others. I have a '69 Motor's Manual that shows 4 balls while the rebuild kit diagram show three. I'm kinda stuck here.

I could really use any and all ideas anyone has, as the guy I bought the car from is moving Tuesday, so I have to have the car gone Monday or it will be towed and impounded (expired plates) tuesday. I don't have the cash for a tow, so I need to get her started to drive home.

Thanks alot,
Michael

PS- If there's anyone in the inland empire of southern california (the car's in northern rancho cucamonga/ altaloma) that might be able to come give me a hand monday, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[rommaster2]

One thing i can say is too make sure that the rebuilt kit is made for your carb, and to also try and find info from an earlier year. If i remember correctly 69 changed some stuff to make the 1101.

 

[phoenix02]

Something I've noticed is that there's no vent valve arm from the accelerator pump to the valve. it's got a pressed in cover where the valve should go. The PO bought a rebuilt Carb in '03, trading in the original as a core, so I have no idea if this is the propper carb or not. from what I understand, it WAS working, until a friend of his that "worked on VWs" came over to adjust the carb and it ran like crap since, then the alternator blew out and he parked it for a couple years. Also, the line from the ignition to the coil is missing- The line from the solenoid to the ignition is there, but I don't see anything to use to attach to the coil. I replaced the alternator and jumpered from the I terminal on the solenoid to the coil and it starts now with starter fluid. Also, the wires ar cut to the neutral safety switch and two are spliced together, so it does start- when I told the PO, he was like "Wow, I was wonderig how I was able to start it in drive..." Kinda disconcerting, but I'll take care of that when I get it home. Right now I jsut need to get her started and up to my house.

Anyway, the only markings on the carb are on the back of the airhorn, the FORD logo, and a casting circle with a bunch of dots on it. There's a light stamp, maybe 9E on the passenger side of the horn, a 4 on the bowl plate behind the vent valve, and a large 3 on the driver's side of the throttle body with another casting circle with dots in it under that. There's also the reman sticker that just says
~-709
9/17/03-21
(~=unreadable number)

 

[rommaster2]

I would suggest maybe putting pictures up of the carb, because that way others could probably help recognise it, or i could at least try and tell you if it is an autolite 1100. I know that when i got mine its problem was that it wouldnt idle and would die as soon as you took your foot off the gas, that was fixed by rebuilding cause the floats were gone. Worse case scenario i'd say would be a tottally screwed up carb that wont work right no matter what, maybe look to try and get a rebuilt one for now.

 

[phoenix02]

Okay, hopefully that'll work. I only had access to a camera phone, so the pics are bad- hopefully good enough for you officianados to tell me what it is! I'm pretty sure it's an 1100.

Thanks,
Michael

Oh, also, the choke cover is just like a bakelite with no other markings on it, so adjusting the choke is probably going to be a pain.

 

[phoenix02]

Okay, from what I've been able to find-

The fourth ball I found in the diagram in my motor's is for the distributor check valve, which appears to only have been used on the 223 and 226 (#29), so I guess I don't have to use that one. Now, does anyone know if the ball for the pump discharge check under the weight is supposed to be smaller than the pump intake and dashpot check balls? Or is it the same size? Sorry for all the questions, but as my knowledge grows to some of your levels I'll hopefully be able to return the favor to someone.

-Michael

Also, the power valve assembly seems to be lower than it should be. the cylinder is about half way out the bottom of the tube, low enough that it's slightly crooked and crooked enough that I'm concerned that it could be binding. Is this okay?

 

[rommaster2]

Looks like an autolite to me, the back looks different from my 1100 though, hmmm strange. I really wish the experts would check this thread out, cause they could probably really help. Personally i'm not sure what a guy who works on volkswagens would do to screw it up to where it wouldnt start without starter fluid. It should be a fairly simplistic carb, as carbs go tuning wise, i know mine is.

 

[addo]

You don't make it clear, whether the carb is being filled with a fluid other than fuel - or if it's just being sprayed in.

To idle - the simplest operation - the idle passages have to be clear. Perhaps they're obstructed.

Also check accelerator pump operation, once the balls are refitted as per your source. Power valve may be the most dubious, as it's highly dependent on correct bore clearance and vacuum, but the main jet is again a simple operation to inspect.

The carb is simple, and it shouldn't get to you.

 

[Mercury Mike]

I'm not quite in the inland empire, I'm about 40 minutes away. (OC) What time did you wanna do that on monday? I don't work on monday, but I do have class @ 6 PM. I work tonight from 10pm - 9?am, then I will probably sleep for awhile. Let me know what your times are, and I can bring my 1100 down and we can use it as a guide. =)

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Michael and all.

First, congrats on you "new" car.

The check balls, bowl vent and needle valves changed a bit over the years and applications on the 1100. Is your '66 a "Calif Emmissions" engine? If it is the carb in the photo is the wrong carb for your distributor. 1966 "C/E" engines do not have a SCV in the carb, but have a distributor with centrifugal and vacuum advance from a ported vacuum source in the carb. That may not be the most pressing problems for you right now, but something to sort out when you get it home.

ronster- the '69 1101 was used on the 250 engines only. Never in a Falcon. A '69 1101 does not have the SCV system.

Your best bet is to get a rebuild kit and do a "clean and rebuild" from scratch- following the instructions to a "T". Also make sure that you have fresh gas. If it runs on starting fluid, then dies you have several clues- ignition is working, gas is not! Is the gas good? Is it getting gas? Is it getting the right amount of gas? When looking down the carb throat, with the engine off, when you open the throttle linkage do you see gas being squirted into it? Does it appear to flood when running on starter fluid? Or not fill the bowl at all (stuck needle and seat)?

I don't know how far you have to drive this car to get it home, but be careful!! I know the CHP is not sympathetic about old cars on the highways. A ticket might be more then the tow. Lord knows I've been through some "Just get it home," adventures and am still here to tell about it. I hope you will have a support vehicle for the trip.

I can't wait to hear the next installment. Keep 'em commin'.

Adios, David

 

[phoenix02]

Thanks for everybody's replies. I got the carb back together and readjusted it. When it was on the car and I actuated the throttle, fuel did go into the air horn- kinda squirted in from the side at about 4:30 looking down the airhorn from the front. I can take the cover back off- how do I go about checking all the things mentioned? I blew through most of the passages and air did come out somewhere else, so I'm assuming nothing's blocked.

It was originally a Washington car, then was brought down in '03 when the PO bought it. I'm the 4th owner. The first two are friends with the third and they're all ex marines so I have to take care of the girl or they'll come and kick my a$$. So, short answer, as far as I know, it's not a ca emissions vehicle. I thought the spark control valve was that metal thing that screwed into the passenger side of the carb next to the vaccuum out- if it is, it's there. Is that what you're refering to as not being on the carb, or am I thinking of something different? If I post up the door plate, could someone decode it?

Oh, here's the pic I was sent before I bought the car.

and here's a masterful artist's rendering of what I want it to look like when I paint it:

They didn't quite have Wimbledon White and Ford Blue in MS Paint, but I'm sure you get the idea. there will be a pinstripe on either side of the stripe on the top. Kinda a Shelby nod with the stripes, and I think the side stripe gives it a bird in flight kinda vibe. Or, ya know, maybe I'm insane. Either way, ya know, with the stripes on it, that's gotta be an extra, like 50HP. If I drop in a K&N and some chinese writing stickers in the windows, I'll be smoking all the big blocks! Oh, and the Powered By Ford sticker. I hear those keep the rear end on the car when you're racing. Or, ya know, something.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

I think I'd lose the skiny strip down the middle or make it a triangle from the trunk lid to a point at the front of the hood.
Tim

 

[ludwig]

The car is old enough to not need California emissions controls. As far as the needle and seat stuff, you have to take the carb off and hold it upside down to get the float to travel the required amount. You can get a replacement carb from a parts store and swap in the new one or you can remove the existing completely and rebuild it from scratch with a good rebuild kit. I use a plastic basin for the solvent or cleaner to keep the spark danger down. Work fast so it doesn't melt the basin.
Check with Allied Auto Supply on Colorado in downtown Pasadena. This is an old-timey parts store with a lot of Mustang stuff in open stock on the shelves. Plus they will let you do box to box comparisons of parts. I'm sure there is one closer to you, but this is the one I go to for everything but sprays and cleaners.
The first time I went there, they were hauling six 1.5 foot diameter IH truck brake drums out the door to the curb on a flat cart. This place can really help you.

 

[Hot 6t Falcon]

Do you have bad gas? No, the car, not you. When you were giving the history of the Previous Owner (PO) you said he parked it when the alternator quit.

So if this gas is more than 6 months old, it is doubtful. If it is "couple" of years old, it WON'T ignite.

You did drain the gas tank, right? If not, try disconnecting the gas line at the rubber hose between the fuel pump and frame. The gas should flow freely out of the tank.

It is a good idea to put a clear plastic filter in this rubber hose. It wil protect the fuel pump and the carb from all of the crap in the gas tank. You can do it by cutting a 2 inch section right out of the middle of the hose. Take the hose section to the parts store and they'll give you the right size. WalMart has them too in two different hose sizes - If I remember correctly the smaller size is needed for the Falcon.

Stay at it, you'll be pleased as pie when it works.

 

[Mercury Mike]

So I went out and helped Mike out with his problems. I reset his TDC, dropped the dizzy down, and it fired up and ran okay. There was a small vacuum leak around the base of the carb. After we fixed that, and the timing was set to 12 degrees, but it was still stalling, we dug into the carb. The float had a hole in it! We covered the holes in jb weld, let it sit until we were sure it wouldn't break up, started it up, and he drove it the 60 miles home without an issue! After a quick clean up, new headlights, air in the tires, and brake fluid... the ol' girl was feeling nice. That 1100 is balls-to-the-wall dead, though. The accel pump won't work well, gives the car no balls, and won't let us adjust the idle. The linkage is also binding up, and you have to hold the throttle closed to get any kind of response out of the idle screws (which is very little). It ran okay, a little rich, and it did the job getting him home, so he could work on it there and fiddle with new stuff. It was a fun time!

 

[ludwig]

That's great. Now get the high-tone rebuild kit. It's not that hard and will make a real difference. Also get a new float if it is not included in the kit.
Better yet, scavenge an 1100 and rebuild both of them. The carb kits are cheap compared to a new one.

 

[phoenix02]

Got her home, indeed. Couldn't have done it wouthout the help of Mike! I can't find a Holley at any parts stores rebuilt, so unless I can find one at a junk yard and rebuild it, I'm stuck with the 1100. Anyone know what cars the Holley (1940, IIRC,) was standard on, if anything so I can go to the parts counter and ask for that?

THanks alot,
Michael

 

[Mercury Mike]

Either carb rebuilt should be fine, if they use all new parts. How was the get up and go on the way home? And have you worked on her at all?

 

[phoenix02]

Going up the pass, I was balls to the wall on her and she felt like she was going to stall out. THe kickdown did work, though, so it must be connected. Because it already shifts hard, I figure I might as well drop in a shift kit, what'da'ya think?

Going up the steep part of the hill flooring it, the best I could get was 50- is that normal for these engines, or is it because the carb is mucked up? Also, whenever we were stopped, I had to two foot it or it'd stall, and when we started again, I floored it and the engine just slowly spooled up- no power on take off. Once she was up to about 40, accelerated and felt great- I think I pulled away from you guys in the Benz a time or two. I'll change the oil and clean her up Thursday and look at my finances and see if I can manage a new carb right now. I was wondering, would it work out to go to a junk yard, pull one and get another rebuild kit and go from there? It'd be half the price of a newly rebuilt one, so I think I can handle that right now. Otherwise, I may be stuck with her as is until I can get another job.

 

[Mercury Mike]

The carb has NO power. With the timing where it is, new plugs, rightly gapped, everything dialed in, it should pick up and go. When you feel my Mustang next time I'm up there you'll feel the difference. She gets up and GOES!