Chev Rods?

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Been Doing a bit of research, and thinking of building a new crossflow to pump some boost and revs into. Currently I want to use 305 chev Pistons (+56thou), 6" chev large journal(2.1") H beam rods and an EF crank. STD big end journal dia is 2.123-2.124" so the crankwill only have to be ground 23 to 24 thou to use std chev bearings..? Or offset grind the crank to reduce the stroke and increase camshaft to conrod clearance as well as improve conrod to stroke ratio and reduce the amount of material to come off the tops of the pistons. Does anyone know how wide chev bigend bearings are? What is everyone elses veiw?
 
hi kiwi,
from memory , the 305 piston is 3.85", which is the same as 283 and 307, but i could be wrong..and you will have the wrong deck hight with the 6" rod.
this combo was tried by a friend who races speedway, with 200 rods and the block split in half.
thats why im using 3.80" crapadore V-6 pistons, for a bit more strength.
200 rods are 6.27, so this would be better for a 1.60 conrod to stroke ratio, than a 1.50 with std 250 rods. best would be 1.70, but then you would have no piston,,dammmmm.
 
A bit of fragmented psycho bable in my folowing post, but get yerself a pencil, draw a block on the back of a cigaret packet, and you'll get the idea.

You'll have to do the homework, but please check the Ford cataloge details and see if the ACL bearing catalogue posted by alloydave has the answers. You'll find him about five to ten pages back on this Aussie six part, and hook on to his profile, and read all posts untill you find it.

The Chev piston fits to the Ford rod with ease, its just a quality remachine and final hone out another to get the other 16 thou or so.

The Nismo Ford 4.0 Barra engine which does 1500 hp has a Precsiosn Crank Regrinders steel crank which has been reworked to run Chevy 6" rods and rod bearings. Results with a special set of Subaru style pistons with Japanese rings are sensational.


The Chev small journal and 265 Chrysler items are the same 2.0 diameter, and as near as dammit for width.

If you re grind under 123 thou or under 23 with the stock 3.91 stroke, and use small or large journal 5.7 Chevy Pink or 'O' rods and decked 60 thou over ACL Holden 253 pistons, everything should fit and handle a bizziliion revs to boot. The bore could only be 5 thou over a good stock Falcon 250 block. Rod ratios around 1.42:1 are common for the old Holden 235 strokers, and the 266 cub strokers some turbo 4.1 runner have. Drag racers frequently use these 1.42 to 1.47 rod ratios. In addition, the ACL piston is a piston of almost 265 Chrysler type which can hack 6800 rpm in a little 253, so 5500 rpm in a 250 isn't out of the question. The right Chevy rods are almost as good as the stock 5.75" 265 Rod. If you've got a thick 1.77" deck piston like the 265 and 253 have , you can use nitrous or 18 pounds of boost, and not risk loosing pistons. Forged pistons are not mandatory. Plenty of turbo red engines and the occasional Ford run ACL cast pistons, and a few of those have done low 11's with over 18 pounds of boost.

I've got a 5MA 221 crank in my 56 thou over 250 X-flow, using the stock forged TRW 229/305 Chevy pistons and 200 conrods. Rod ratio is 1.81:1, but you loose 29 cubes. The engine is being saved for another project, but it's not worth the money doing the remaching unless the parts are dirt cheep, and you end up with better rods, pistons and a beeter crank. I'm sure when I do get it the recmachined engine out of the old bath its been sitting in since March 2003, it'll be a lovely sweet reving street engine that will always be 13% and 29 cubes smaller than everyone elses 250 Falcon.

If you do your homework, you can do anything. Sounds like your budget minded, so for every dollar, I'd recomend the Holden V8 challange pistons, good stock length Chevy rods, and tie it all to a reground crank. There is no problem with using an EF or EL crank taken down to even 2.0". They are strong enough for 6000 rpm.
 
Without offset grinding the crank, I've worked out that using the 305 chev pistons and 6" rods that the total length from the top of the piston, to the centre of the B/E journal is 7.545 vs 7.41 for the stock 250 rod and piston or 7.439 for the 200 rod and ACL pistons.
So that is only .135" longer or .106" longer than the ACL piston with the 200 rod. How far does the stock piston sit down the bore from the top of the block deck? Even if the piston sat with a zero dedck height then it wouldn't be to much trouble to machine 2.5-3mm off the tops off the pistons would it? Also with this much of an overbore I'd probably go for a half grout fill.
 
Your calcs are perfect.


The Aussie 250 has a deck at about to 9.380" tall. It varies little. Stock Falcons piston tops park at about 9.365, or 15 thou short. Thats 5.88" rod plus the 1.530" piston, plus half the 3.91 stroke, or 16 to 19 thou short.


The same 9.38" block with the stock 6.27" 200 rods and 1.163" tall ACL pistons gets to park right at a perfect 0.000" or zero deck. Hope you've calculated your bump, as the rods can streach 25 thou at 6000 rpm.

When you add the 6.00" Scat/Lunati/ aftermarket Chev rods and use the 1.531" tall version of the 229/305 TRW's (three part numbers were available). That puts the piston up to 106 thou. Great thing is both the forged and cast pistons have a 12 cc dish, and a 110 thou trough. That forged one can be milled 110 thou, get a 0 cc flat top piston parking 4 thou before the block. Then you get a rod ratio almost equal to a 1998 to 2006 AU to BF, but with the best economy pistons and rods money can buy. Don't expect the pistons to be rattle free, forged pistons need the right clearance and a nice slow warm-up.

You must do the math, and know how much machining space there is. With ACL's, you can't machine much because the piston is fairly trim and cast. The Chevy piston is much better, but you can still mess up.

I mis-calculated things back in 2001 on my hybrid 228. I eventually had my pistons cut down about 60 thou to 1.47, and will still end up having to run a copper gasket. 6.27" 200 rod plus 1.47 machined 305 pistons, plus half the 3.46" stroke for the 221 crank. Thats 9.47, 90 thou above the stock unmachined block.
 
xctasy":2xkjlt1f said:
The same 9.38" block with the stock 6.27" 200 rods and 1.163" tall ACL pistons gets to park right at a perfect 0.000" or zero deck. Hope you've calculated your bump, as the rods can streach 25 thou at 6000 rpm.
.

Whenever I do the sums it never comes out at zero.

9.38-6.27-1.163-3.91/2 = -.008 That is 8thou above the deck.

Worse still, the ACL book shows the piston as 1.169 high which takes it up to .014 above the deck. There are heaps of these running without misadventure so I am scratching my head wondering what is wrong with the figures.
 
My bad.

I used the stock cranksahft 'throw' of 3.91 divided by 2.

That's 9.38-1.163-(3.91/2)-6.27.... 8 thou above. If the piston is 1.169, then the pistons indeed have to be shaved about 14 thou at least.

Yep, I fat fingered me calculator again... :oops:


Good thing is, even a LS-1's run a 6 thou positive deck with there relieved cumbustion chamber.

As stated, it's important to have over 25 thou clearnace to the head. Options are to run a real thick gasket to make up for it. I believe there is a taxi spec 62 thou item somwhere. Others, like Dynoed250, run a 62.5 thou decompression plate and two 38 to 44 gaskets.
 
how do you acount for the different bigend width between the chev and ford rods??
 
hey
anther way to drop the size of your rods to get say that last 10 thou or so whould be to have them re sized you could also do this to mabey run ford bearings on chev rods etc.
drift
 
There are a few people around making specific rod and piston combos for the BA engine which can be swapped into the SOHC and crossflow sixes without modification. The crossflows are a bit harder for turbo application because their chamber is smaller than the OHC engine hence more dish is required on the piston.

The shot peened stock rods and ACL 27,9cc dish piston is hard to go past for a boosted engine. One thing I don't like about this combo is the piston ends up being about 0.040" down the bore.

I recently noticed the conrod for the Ford modular V8 4.6L engine was 5.933" slightly longer than the 5.87" crossflow rod but the right big end journal size and width.

This rod will still work fine with the ACL 27.9cc dish piston below the block deck but better than standard. there are also heaps of available aftermarket rods. Rocket Industries advertise Scat rods for that engine as being available in Australia.

The LS1 Chev V8 also seems to run a 2.1" journal size and a 6.1" conrod. I would say bisically meaure your exact requirements for width, BE and pin diameters and widths and ring someone like rocket or performance wholesale and they will find a rod to suit in whatever length you want these days.
 
What piston/conrod combo are you running in your motor MarkZE?
Also have you got your car back on the strip since you installed the cage and mini tubs?
 
is there any disadvantage running the early cranks? I'm trying to get a high rod ration close or over 2:1...

are they not as strong?

are they a straight swap over or do you have to mill them down?

I'm looking at building a low boost high reving engine, somewhere in the range of 6500-7000rpm running 7-8psi from a supercharger. (xflow of course)

It will be a street car, but most likely not a daily driver...

not chasing big power and big cubes arent important...
 
hey
yes straght fit in some blocks 86/87da
12 counter weights help remove nad harmonics revs nicer with out things braking.
drift
 
Aftermarket H-beam Chev rods...

Due to the fact that the journal diameter must be ground undersize in order to use the chev bearing, the crank can always be offset ground, to reduce the stroke, and to relocate the piston further down the bore at TDC.
The shorter stroke wouldn't matter over much. Might make the motor rev a bit sweeter.
 
Kiwi,

I am running the 27.9CC ACL duralite pistons with stock shot peened 5.87" XF falcon rods with ARP rod bolts. I rev my engine to 5800 rpm.

The long rods etc are way over rated on a turbo engine as there is no need to rev them hard to make the power.

In the end cam harmonics kill a turbo crossflow engine well before rod to stroke ratio has a chance to really have an effect. On a non turbo speedway engine where they happily rev to 7500 rpm I would say long rods are good because the piston is so much lighter.

I have not run my car yet with the new mods. I had to go away for work for two months and I have only been back for about 3 weeks. I am waiting to have the car dropped off to a fabricator for a 9" diff housing and choromoly rear swaybar to be done. The tubs, race seat, harnesses, cage, race suit etc are all ready. Hopefully early September I will get the car out to the track again.
 
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