Daily Driver

[David_Conwill]

Hey Folks,

I've already got a "fast" car, but once I get out of school I want to get a new daily driver. I'd love to pick up a '60-'63 Falcon sedan or coupe to replace my faithful-but-tired Escort.

In my head I see it playing out something like this: '61 Deluxe sedan with a 144 or a 170. Replace the 3-speed or Ford-o-matic with a T5. Freshen up the sixer with a modern cam pattern; some head work; a header and a low-restriction muffler; and (maybe) EFI.

Does that sound like a good daily driver to you? I'd like something that will knock down better than 25mpg without the risk of becoming a new hood ornament on a Peterbilt.

Recommendations on what cam to use and how to set up an EFI system? Is EFI needlessly complicated for the benefit it confers? Is a stock rear-axle ratio a good match with the 5-speed? How about an SROD?

Also, I've never done head work and know nothing about it, really, but I've been told that's where most efficiency comes from.

I appreciate any guidance.

-Dave

PS I didn't mention disc brakes only because this is the engine forum.

 

[Bort62]

Dave,

I think your goals are acheiveable. Just remember there is a lot more to making a car a reliable driver than just the powertrain.

However, a few suggestions.

The first is to use a 200. It will physically bolt in place of the existing 144/170, and is a much better engine in several respects (not only displacement).

A rebuilt 6 with the upgrades you mention (I would add a duraspark II to that list) will make a pretty decent economy platform with enough performance to get out of it's own way.

People have gotten really good economy/performance out of carbs here, but I still think EFI is the way to go. There are very few on this forum however who have taken the plunge, so it is somewhat uncharted territory. I would suggest heading over to the EFI forum and reading Moe's post on the subject.

 

[David_Conwill]

Hi Bort,

Thanks for the reply. I'm interested to hear your opinions on other aspects of creating a daily driver. You're talking things like basic rebuilds of worn equipment, or upgrades like cooling and suspension?

Obviously a big part of the appeal of a sixties car is their simplicity so I hate to add too much technology, but EFI seems like "just enough" of the modern era to make things worthwhile. I looked for Moe's post, but I'm having trouble finding it. You don't happen to have a link, do you? It doesn't look like it's a sticky.

So what advantages besides cubes does the 200 have? It does seem to be a worthwhile upgrade for performance reasons, but I figured extra cubes meant extra fuel consumption and wasn't really considering it. They don't seem to be too expensive to pick up, however, so I could probably be talked into it.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Bort62]

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38349

The 200 has 7 main bearings as opposed to the 4 of the 144/170. It also has a larger distributor hole which allows you to use the later duraspark II distributor.

It was also built from 1966 - 1983, and as a result parts for it are everywhere. The 144 and 170 had a much more limited run.

As for the whole daily driver thing, It's one thing to get an engine/tranny in that runs well.

But that crap that will drive you insane on a car you have to drive every day is not so obvious. When you put a lot of miles on a car, stuff that normally isnt an issue for us weekend warriors starts to pop up.

Worn out suspension components, wheel bearings, brake hardware, steering components etc will all start to break down on you. If you only drive you car a few miles a week on weekends, you can get by w/ a lot of 40 year old parts. If you drive it to work everyday, the 40 year old stuff will start leaving you stranded.

There are other maintenance related issues as well. As drivers of modern cars, we are accustomed to modern maintenance intervals. Doing things like changing points, adjusting drum brakes, and adjusting carb/ timing every time the weather changed is a foreign concept.

So unless you want to get on this routine, you need to replace those systems w/ modern equivalents. Luckily, the options are out there - but they need to be considered and factored into the budget.

If I were to build a daily driver out of an older car, I would start by replacing/rebuilding everything that moved. I've driven old cars daily before, including my ranchero. Living in the bay area, long commutes are the norm - and driving an old marginally reliable car will cause premature heart failure.

 

[rommaster2]

The 200ci has 7 main bearings as opposed to the 4 main bearings of the 170 and 144. Thats the biggest difference over the cubes.

It is pretty much a bulletproof motor, and with mild cam, either a two barrel sequential or standard, header and exhaust in front of a t5 would probably work pretty good.

The stock rear end most likely would hold up as long as you aren't doing clutch drops and stuff like that. However i would check the rear gear in it. However if it is a roundbody, you probably would have a 3.20 or higher rear gear but you never know. The T5 wouldn't be good if you have a 3.0 or higher, and even a 3.2 might not work too good with one.

 

[Bort62]

The T5 wouldn't be good if you have a 3.0 or higher, and even a 3.2 might not work too good with one.

Bs. I currently have a T5 w/ 3.89 rear. It's too much, certainly.

However the 3.23 I am swapping to will be just right for my application. I think anything LESS than 3.0 in basically any car is way too little rear gear.

 

[wallaka]

You have the 4/6 cyl or V8 T5? That would guide rear cog selection. The "lighter duty" T5s had much steeper first gears, and possibly all the way to the O/D gear. This would make a numerically lower diff a better option.

If you have torque enough, a 2.79 rear could work pretty well I think.

 

[Bort62]

I guess it depends what you are trying to do. 65 mph w/ 205/60/R14 & and 2.79 rear is 2000 RPM. That's pretty low...

 

[rbohm]

8) david i also recommend using a 200 in an early falcon since it has the most after market parts available for it. as for the trans, i suggest using a V8 T5 not just because it is the stronger trans, but it has the better gear ratio spread. couple that with a 3.55-3.89 rear gear and you have a combination that will do very nice in pretty much all driving regimes.

 

[CobraSix]

It took me almost 7 years to gradually convert my mustang to a daily driver.

Sure, engine/powertrain always get first attention, but big things people don't think about:

1) Cooling
2) Seats (if you drive 50 miles a day like me)
3) BRAKES!
4) Radio (laugh if you will, but 1 speaker AM radio is painful)
5) Suspension

Now, I've been doing it slowly and replacing parts as they fail and upgrading them, so it can surely be done faster. Basically, my entire car has been upgraded and replaced to get it to reliable daily driver status.

You don't need EFI for daily driver. In fact, I would steer away from it for a daily driver. One of systems mean they can be quirky and if something goes wrong, you go down hard and are stuck. Carbs, while not the most efficient thing in the world, can still acheive a good power/economy ratio if tuned correctly. Plus, if a carb leaves you stranded, you can do a quicky rebuild in a auto parts parking lot (been there, done that). Your meqasquirt cuircut card goes out and unless you keep a soldering iron and circuit analyzer in your trunk...you are SOL.

In fact, I've moved away from some of my more grandeous plans for my car since it has become a daily driver. No more exotic parts, weird items, etc. The only parts that don't list under a 1965 mustang is the ignition (79 Granada 250) and the transmission (89 Mustang 5.0). I even ditched my Pertronix ignition in favor of the DS2, for no other reason then I wanted to be able to get replacement parts directly from Autozone, napa, etc (my pertronix crapped out one night 20 miles from home...limped home on 3 cylinders firing). I also removed my offenhauser 3x1V head to go with a more simplified Oz 250/2V converted to a 4V base. Even on it...everything was converted to US 200 head specs (valve size, guides, seals, etc).

My brakes (very important for a daily driver) have been upgraded to a dual resevoir MC (pretty much a requirement for a daily driver) with 65 GT Disc brakes in the front, and 8" rear end with bigger drums in the back.

So, before you start adding power to a daily driver, I would do the following at a minimum:

1) Dual Res. Master Cylinder.
2) Electronic ignition of some sort (big upgrade for a daily driver)
3) Cooling system evaluation and possible upgraded radiator (3 row works wonders for a daily driver in traffic)

Every other system needs to be evaluated and fixed as needed IMO before dropping serious $$$ into the engine.

 

[fordconvert]

The others have gave good info. I like the recommendation of seats for safety and daily comfort. I would leave the EFI thing down near or at the bottom of the list and only move it up if you feel that you are really suffering in drivability and looking at $100's of carb work, at that point it may be worth re evaluating. Even a junkyard / MS setup is going to be hard to justify the cost vs fuel savings. Same goes for the more exotic carb swaps, cost vs savings make take a while. Performance and fun factor are complete other factors that only you can decide its value to you. I converted 2 of my other cars last year and plan on doing the mustang soon but first have to figure out what is wrong with my steering, if the steering takes too much money I may have to wait for the EFI swap. Mine is running fine with the carb I just think I can get more out of it with the EFI.

 

[falcon fanatic]

If I had to do it over again, I would start with a fairly comprehensive teardown to get the chassis in as good condition as possible. Deal with all the rust up front. Weld in the beefiest set of subframe connectors you can, or even cut the floor and weld some frame rails in there. This is an important step for a daily driver that is soon to be 50 years old.

Second, I would ditch the entire front suspension and install a Rod & Custom or Heidt's Mustang II front end. This might seem like an expensive thing to do, but once you add together the cost of a suspension rebuild, disk brake conversion and power steering you will realize that the MII conversion is actually a fabulous bargain.

Stock rear suspension with a small swaybar is fine.

A 200 with a T-5 sounds like a great plan. Do some headwork and get a nice cam. While your drivetrain is out of the car it should be fairly easy to do a decent FI conversion.

Aluminum radiator with electric fan.

A/C nice seats and a clean interior.

If the definition of a daily driver is a car you don't have to work on every weekend and can actually drive every day, then keep the escort until you can get a garage, learn to weld, save up $15 to $25K to buy all these parts, and plan on not driving your car for 18 months. If you work smart and not try to do a total restoration but rather a refurbishment/modernization, you can get it done in this time and have a sweet daily driver. Then, once it's all tuned, aligned, adjusted and broken in, sell the escort and make everybody jealous.

 

[JackFish]

I was wondering if Mustang IIs came with I6s? :

 

[falcon fanatic]

Interesting question jackfish. I suppose if they had there would be a couple around here. The kits, of course, have weld-in motor mounts so you can install whatever you want.

 

[CobraSix]

Aluminum radiator with electric fan.

Don't really need those. normal 3 row radiator (which is an upgrade from the stock 2 row) with the stock fan will keep a properly maintained cooling system running perfectly. I've run my stock 4 blade fan with a 3 row in 95*+ days in stop and go...and never has my coolant gone above the Tstat temperature.

I'm just of a mind of Keep It Simple for daily drivers. Electric fan = more stuff that can go wrong.

 

[David_Conwill]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think I've heard a camshaft recommendation. For purposes of this discussion, assume I'm going to go with a header, some head work, and a one barrel.

-Dave